The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

For discussion of the upcoming films based on The Hobbit and related material, as well as previous films based on Tolkien's work
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

Post by Elentári »

Alatar wrote:
Elentári wrote: That screen cap is from the second of these two new Spots
I know. I screencapped it! ;)
Well, obviously....but you didn't bother posting the whole ad! :P
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

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Some pics apparently from the BotFA Visual Companion, which some may have seen before, but there's a couple I hadn't, anyway...

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 9f285562b9
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

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Elentári wrote:
Alatar wrote:
Elentári wrote: That screen cap is from the second of these two new Spots
I know. I screencapped it! ;)
Well, obviously....but you didn't bother posting the whole ad! :P
Well, that's because Voronwë had already posted it. :)
Voronwë the Faithful wrote:TV Spot 2

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=751463171555957
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

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Ah...I missed that link amongst the talk of Beutlin's marathon!
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

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I sort of want to see this movie.
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

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I sort of think you're kidding. :P
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Which part do think he is kidding about, the "want to see this movie" or the "sorta"?
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

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I actually am excited about it, which is a little dangerous. But usually when full movie clips start getting released, I moderate my expectations.
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I think that the only thing that we can say with a reasonable degree of certainty is that it is going to be a mixed bag, with some parts very good (and perhaps even awe-inspiring), and some parts cringe-inducing. It has been that way to a greater or lesser extext for five films now, so I think it is reasonable to expect the same for the sixth.

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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

Post by Passdagas the Brown »

Amen to that. I expect some strong drama between Bilbo and Thorin, as well as long scenes of digitized main characters riding carts down Erebor and Dale-inspired virtual theme parks.
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I'm definitely eager to see how the Dol Guldur/Necromancer/White Council storyline plays out, and also to see the inter-relationships between Bard and Thranduil and Thorin and Gandalf (and maybe Dain), as well within the company of the Dwarves (I'm still shocked at how moving I found that line of Dwalin's from the trailer to be). I'm even interested to see how the whole Kili/Tauriel/Legolas/Thranduil relationships play out, and of course how they manage the various deaths.

I do think it is important to set aside specific expectations of things from the book. I doubt very much, for instance, that we will Thranduil at all depicted in a way consistent with his line in the book where he says "Long will I tarry, ere I begin this war for gold."
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

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Some behind the scenes et pictures from the latest Sibley movie guide - I believe this is a part of Ravenhill...

https://twitter.com/PryftanAW/status/533969813811757056
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

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Galadriel and Gimli - "a love that could never be," according to The Hobbit scriptwriters...

from the "The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies Official Movie Guide"

The Hobbit,” says Philppa Boyens, “Is a very blokey story! Although Professor Tolkien wrote some wonderful female characters, you are very aware of the lack of them in this book.”...

Philppa Boyens recalls: ‘We asked ourselves what opportunities might allow for the adding of a good, strong female character who could have her own story. We didn’t just want to create her for the sake of it; she needed to have a purpose in the storytelling, so we looked at a few interesting places where that could happen. Could she be a hobbit, such as Bilbo’s mother, Primula? Unfortunately, she offered us little opportunity to continue her story outside the Shire and we wanted a character who had her own reason for being in the narrative.’

The writers examined other possibilities, as Peter Jackson explains: ‘We thought about having a character in Lake-town, but the idea that, as screenwriters, interested us the most and that we thought we could explore and take in directions that would be interesting was the idea of a female Elven character. Frann and I always loved the little thread in The Lord of the Rings storyline about the devotion of Gimli - a rough, doughtly Dwarf- for the Lady Galadriel. There was something about that story of a love that could never be, that spoke to the idea that you can find attraction anywhere and it can be surprising.

'The idea developed into a plot-line featuring a love-story between Tauriel and Kili the Dwarf. 'Because of the rancour and animosity existing between the two races,' says Philippa, 'it was an idea that was too tempting to ignore and not so outlandish to be impossible. In the culture of Middle-earth it is historical, rather than natural, for Dwarves and Elves to hate each other. We wanted to show that if you leave two young people alone, they will find common interests and shared experiences, so that's what we did.'
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Regardless of what she is quoted as saying in the "Official Movie Guide" (which are notorious for having simplified and inaccurate information anyway), she has made it clear elsewhere (and particularly, from what I have read, though I haven't seen it myself, in the DoS EE commentary), that there is no "romance" that as she says in the commentary, "This is a relationship that can never be, and they know it." The healing scene is certainly awkwardly done, and Kili's "I wonder if she ever could have loved me" (or whatever he says) is laughably silly, but it is no romance, and it won't be in BotFA. And I'll take the silly healing scene (or more likely fast forward through it in future viewings) since what goes along with it is the lovely Feast of Starlight scene, which remains one of the best in all of the M-e films.
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

Post by Passdagas the Brown »

What V-man said. Despite Boyens' comments, which almost never help her case, I thought Tauriel in the woodland realm was well done (and more successful than Legolas' role, which I find unnecessary). I just wish we didn't get all that nonsense in Laketown.
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

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*** SERIOUS SPOILERS BELOW! ***

BOFA Spoiler Questions answered by Frodo284on TORn:
So I've had the opportunity to see the film. I'll be happy to shovel out tidbits to those who ask. Not all at once though! I'll select questions randomly.....

A full anonymous review in first week of December. For now I'll say this.

Great movie, great opening, great score, great acting. Some overuse of CG as usual, stays true to the book in a lot of moments and wraps up nicely with a noble tie to Fellowship of the Ring

Okay I received a bunch of questions and I've done my best to weed through and answer most of them how I can for now. A moderator suggested I hide them so you can highlight if you dare see the answers! There are def some SPOILERS in here....

How to you think the critics will like this movie compared to the other two?
Spoiler!
I see critics somewhat bashing the film in the sense that it doesn’t live up to ROTK which it will be expected too in some aspects (IMO). That being said, I feel it will be respected on a different level as it is it’s own story and film at the same time. This movie does not rise to the same level of monumental feel at the battle sequences that ROTK held (tapping of spears, speeches, and glorious gallops into battle with triumphant music). This is a different feel, a sense of drama and tension between mutual armies quarreling over differences. So on one hand it’s great in it’s own way, but comparing to something that won best picture in 2003 might be a bit of a challenge!
Is there a Prologue and will the deaths play out as in the book or not?
Spoiler!
No Prologue, we open with Smaug destructing LakeTown - Opening scene. Yes the deaths match the book!
Is Dain as badass as he should be?
Spoiler!
IMO no, he was goofy and more like comedy. A bit disappointing. Dialogue was a bit ridiculous.
Do we get to see what happens to each of the Dwarves after the battle (ie. Balin in Moria)?
Spoiler!
NO
How prominent is Thranduil in the film?
Spoiler!
Very much!
What is Thranduil's motivation for going to Erebor? Do we get a line similar to "Long will I tarry, ere I begin this war for gold" or does he come off as an antagonist?
Spoiler!
He wants his jewels back! And yes, somewhat of an Antagonist.
Is Smaug talking at all in the movie ?
Spoiler!
YES, great dialogue!
Is the film emotional enough? Does it make you feel in the way we did during ROTK?
Spoiler!
Not at all. But it def has a few moments that touched me.
Is Dain crowned king or is it at least clear that he is king?
Spoiler!
No
Does Dain kill Azog and Beorn kill Bolg like in the book?
Spoiler!
No and No
What About the auction scene?
Spoiler!
Bag End is being auctioned when he arrives home and The Sackville Baggins’ are there taking his stuff!
Is Thorin's death (and final scene) exactly like, or at least close to, the books?
Spoiler!
No - In a final battle with Azog on the ice, they wound each other. He does make peace with Bilbo, but no burial nor any scene with Beorn.


What happens to Tauriel?
Spoiler!
Tauriel is left with grief after the loss of Kili and asks Thranduil to take love away if this is what it feels like. He tells her it hurts because it was real. This is all we really see of her before the end.
How does Bard kill Smaug (Windlance or Bow and Arrow)?
Spoiler!
Neither, technically. No bird delivers the message but he spots the missing scale himself. In an intense scene bard self makes a bow between two blades and a scrap of bowstring. He props the black arrow balanced on his sons shoulder to aim.
How/by whos hand does Fili and Kili die?
Spoiler!
Azog
Does the ending feel satisfactory? Do pretty much all main characters have their storylines wrapped up?
Spoiler!
It feels very open-ended IMO. The Dwarves do not really get a closing. Bilbo is invited to celebrate at the end but he leaves. His goodbye’s (dialogue) is really only with Balin (the old one).


Does Thorin get his final death scene with Bilbo from the book?
Spoiler!
Yes he dies making amends to Bilbo.
Do we get any kind of reprisal of the Dwaves' "Over the Misty Mountains" song from AUJ? And if so, what are the circumstances?
Spoiler!
Sadly, no. This would have been a nice touch now that you bring it up!
What is the ending, specifically?
Spoiler!
Bilbo is in his home, empty and all the auctioned items have not been replaced. We cut to his hand w/ the ring in it. Then we cut to an older hand and zoom out to old Bilbo putting it in his pocket only to hear a knock at the door and Gandalf arriving. Camera pulls into the Lonely Mountain drawing/map while hearing Bilbo/Gandalf dialogue “and what about very old friends” etc. Map fades into nice drawings of Top Billed characters w/ “The Last Goodbye” playing
.

How well does the film portray Thorin's "dragon sickness"? My concern is that, by making Thranduil more of an antagonist, Thorin seems justified in guarding the mountain, and the point should be that he's not in the right state of mind.
Spoiler!
The Dragon Sickness is VERY much played upon and very well I might add. Thorin is the best part of this movie to me.
Some further questions answered:
1. About how long is the return journey?
Spoiler!
It's nothing really (less than 2-3 minutes) - parts of this movie feel really rushed. Why I HAVE to believe there is an extended edition. This will DEF not be a best picture winner. The movie feels VERY rushed in parts. Almost like they wanted to avoid making too long of a film for some reason. Some parts felt shortened or was missing something. Such as Dol Goldur - Return Journey - and some others.
2. How much dol guldur?
Spoiler!
Very little at all. A well done 10 minute scene or so. Maybe it was a it longer. We cut there once I believe and that's it! Sauron is rushed off by the 3 of them in power, Saruman drives him away if I remember correctly after Galadriel. Then she is weakened, Elrond holding her. They are looking after Gandalf. Radagast is there too. Galadriel and Elrond are suggested to leave and Saruman says "leave Sauron to me." Then that is the end of Dol goldur . It's a great scene but could have been elaborated more upon I feel. It was nice to see the same effect we saw in Fellowship by Galadriel used here once again. BUT, it's a short lived scene and besides seeing the armies dispatch from here...that's really all. We do see Tauriel and Legolas approach another place, I forgot the name as I've not read the appendices...maybe what would become Minus Morgol? The bats appear here.

3. How does the score measure up?
Spoiler!
The score is nice but NOTHING like ROTK. Nothing too memorable. Most notable score was Bard & Smaug - for me.
4. What was most surprising about the film? Best part? Worst part?
Spoiler!
I've read the book so not much to be surprised about I guess. The ending was gonna be the biggest surprise for me and it was. Not in a shocking way, but just in how they would tie it up. The worst - Alfred !!! Unnecessary comedy! He is in the entire film almost and they use him as comic relief. Wasn't buying it.
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

Post by Alatar »

So, the usual then. Some good and bad news in equal measure.
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

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I'm finding this a lot more dispiriting I'm afraid.
Spoiler!
If Dain's not going to be king and not going to kill either Bolg or Azog, I wonder what role remains for him to play. Or if he's even actually in it now. And if what this poster says is true, then I can't see the logic behind making such a change.
Disappointed but expected about the score as well.
To quote PtB, my expectations are at their lowest right now. :)
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Oh the angst! Does it make me a bad person that I find it quite amusing to watch? {Note: Cross-posted with SV}

Though I must say that this tidbit does sound quite weird to me:
Spoiler!
In an intense scene bard self makes a bow between two blades and a scrap of bowstring. He props the black arrow balanced on his sons shoulder to aim
.
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

Post by Smaug's voice »

I'm finding this a lot more dispiriting I'm afraid.
Spoiler!
If Dain's not going to be king and not going to kill either Bolg or Azog, I wonder what role remains for him to play besides being a convenient deux ex-machina. i wonder if he's even actually in it now. And if what this poster says is true, then I can't see the logic behind making such a change.
Disappointed but expected about the score as well.
To quote PtB, my expectations are at their lowest right now. :)
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