The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

[Telemachos]

That featurette was rather nice. Quick question for Tel. Were the clips in the video all in the final film? These promotional materials so often feature footage that is ultimately cut, and I just wanted to get a sense of how much of it makes it in.

I'm pretty sure all that is in. There are one or two "Orc armies marching at night" shots that I'm not 100% about.

[Elentári]

Well, needless to say, at the time that TH was written, it wasn't an issue at all, and never became an issue in the text itself at any time (though perhaps it would have JRRT had followed through with the 1960 revision to the end). As for whether in the broader scheme of things, taking the LOTR appendix A into account (and the Quest for Erebor, though of course technically that is out of bounds), I think it is not an unreasonable inference to make that Sauron would have wanted Erebor for its strategic location and not just the powerful weapon that Smaug could have been, although I don't believe that Gandalf ever specifically said. There was plenty of talk about the importance of forcing Sauron's hand to move on Gondor, rather than taking a more strategic geographic approach in defeating his enemies and I think this could fall in that general thought process (though of course much earlier).

Okay, fair enough. Thanks V.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Admittedly, that is a bit a stretch, but certainly not nearly as far as ALISTTTFOTR.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Here's another clip you shouldn't watch:

http://herocomplex.latimes.com/movies/h ... ttacks/#/0

[Elentári]

Okay, I won't...

[Passdagas the Brown]

Not bad. Though it's the first time I've been truly irritated by Tauriel...

Her inclusion in scenes that are wholly invented are one thing (as were most of her scenes in DOS, barring the barrel ride - but the latter was so different than the book version that I think of it as an invention), but when she (and Legolas) are inserted into major, iconic scenes from the book, it takes a lot of getting used to. I expect that the 2nd viewing of this film will be the best for me.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Honestly? That tiny little glimpse of her bothered you?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Another clip for Elen to skip, and PtB to watch (got to 6:15):

http://www.canalplus.fr/c-divertissemen ... id=1177352

[Passdagas the Brown]

Honestly? That tiny little glimpse of her bothered you?

It's very odd, because I liked Lilly in DOS (except for parts of the awful healing scene). But her presence at the destruction of Laketown immediately irritated me. I suppose it's one of those iconic scenes from the book, and one of those times when you simply want to see Tolkien's words (and images - as he drew Laketown himself) come to life. And then there's Tauriel steering a boat of dwarves, and it's like "oh, yeah, this is something else..."

[Passdagas the Brown]

Another clip for Elen to skip, and PtB to watch (got to 6:15):

http://www.canalplus.fr/c-divertissemen ... id=1177352

Another strong clip. I am starting to wonder where the visceral negativity from some in the fandom is coming from. But of course, we haven't been shown any of Legolas' stunts yet...

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Honestly? That tiny little glimpse of her bothered you?

It's very odd, because I liked Lilly in DOS (except for parts of the awful healing scene). But her presence at the destruction of Laketown immediately irritated me. I suppose it's one of those iconic scenes from the book, and one of those times when you simply want to see Tolkien's words (and images - as he drew Laketown himself) come to life. And then there's Tauriel steering a boat of dwarves, and it's like "oh, yeah, this is something else..."

Maybe seeing it early like that will help you get that out of your system and make your first viewing more enjoyable. Far be it for me to tell you what to think or feel, but that kind of thing doesn't bother me, so long as it is not obtrusive.

[Passdagas the Brown]

Honestly? That tiny little glimpse of her bothered you?

It's very odd, because I liked Lilly in DOS (except for parts of the awful healing scene). But her presence at the destruction of Laketown immediately irritated me. I suppose it's one of those iconic scenes from the book, and one of those times when you simply want to see Tolkien's words (and images - as he drew Laketown himself) come to life. And then there's Tauriel steering a boat of dwarves, and it's like "oh, yeah, this is something else..."

Maybe seeing it early like that will help you get that out of your system and make your first viewing more enjoyable. Far be it for me to tell you what to think or feel, but that kind of thing doesn't bother me, so long as it is not obtrusive.

That's exactly why I watch these clips.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

With regard to your question about the negativity, most of it seems to be coming from people who have not actually seen the film, which I think is both sad and amusing at the same time. A lot of it is because the first person to see it and post a review chooses to focus on the negative, despite the fact that he liked most of the film very much. And I think that people choose to focus on comparatively small details rather than the broader picture. Sure there are some small details from the book that I would love to see captured, but the underlying themes and character interactions are much more important, and it seems like this film might be pretty good in those areas. If that clip is an indication of the Bilbo/Thorin relationship, I think we are in good shape, despite the fact that there will likely be some things that we don't like.

[Telemachos]

With regard to your question about the negativity, most of it seems to be coming from people who have not actually seen the film, which I think is both sad and amusing at the same time. A lot of it is because the first person to see it and post a review chooses to focus on the negative, despite the fact that he liked most of the film very much. And I think that people choose to focus on comparatively small details rather than the broader picture. Sure there are some small details from the book that I would love to see captured, but the underlying themes and character interactions are much more important, and it seems like this film might be pretty good in those areas. If that clip is an indication of the Bilbo/Thorin relationship, I think we are in good shape, despite the fact that there will likely be some things that we don't like.

The Thorin and Bilbo stuff is great. So is the Thorin/Balin and Thorin/Dwalin stuff (Dwalin's scene is a particular standout). The fact that PJ nailed so much of this particular arc of the story is one reason why I'm fairly positive about the movie overall.

[Passdagas the Brown]

Thorin-Bilbo is the heart of the story, and the films would have been improved dramatically if that was the main focus (dropping the extra elven, Dol Guldur and even Bard stuff in favor of that character development process). But I am glad to hear that PJ gets this aspect right in BotFA, as it will determine whether or not I enjoy this film.

Also, I'm just happy that there's a raven in it.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Thorin-Bilbo is the heart of the story, and the films would have been improved dramatically if that was the main focus (dropping the extra elven, Dol Guldur and even Bard stuff in favor of that character development process). But I am glad to hear that PJ gets this aspect right in BotFA, as it will determine whether or not I enjoy this film.

And that is the complaint that I have about many of the negative comments I have. Like that review that Elen posted from Captain Obvious, in which his main complaint seemed to be that the thrush didn't tell Bard about Smaug's missing scale. Stuff like that is very minor compared to Thorin's and Bilbo's interactions (plus it was already abundantly clear that wasn't going to happen).



---------
Sent from my LG G3 using tapatalk

[Passdagas the Brown]

Agreed. In the end, I think my primary complaint about these films will be that the over-emphasis on the elves and men of the story (as well as parts of Dol Guldur) took precious time away from the development of the Bilbo-Thorin relationship. The hand-wringing about not enough Beorn, for example, is a little insane, as Beorn appears for a mere few sentences at this stage of the book. If there's something to complain about, it's that the Bilbo-Thorin relationship was too undercooked.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

And mishandled in AUJ, in my opinion, which I think was primarily a result of the 3-film split, and the perceived need to create a false resolution of their relationship in the first film (which in retrospect I consider perhaps the biggest misstep in the series).

---------
Sent from my LG G3 using tapatalk

[Frelga]

My husband is the one watching all the clips now. It's hilarious.

I did see the Galadriel clip. That girl lifts! But I know what would make that scene better - if they were joined by Schwarzenegger in a loincloth. It looked like something out of a Conan movie.

My days of not taking PJ seriously are certainly coming to a middle.

[Passdagas the Brown]

What I find interesting is how so many fans of the LOTR trilogy feel that PJ has "devolved" as a filmmaker. To me, PJ is exactly the same filmmaker he was when he made LOTR. He has the same style through and through. As Tele once said, he paints Mona Lisas and then scribbles smiley faces all over them. The only difference is that he has more freedom to realize his vision because of advancements in CGI, more money, and less of a fear of Box Office failure.

Ultimately, I have found it hard to be very disappointed in the Hobbit films because they are almost exactly what one should have expected from PJ. IMO, a lot of his now disappointed fans simply missed the writing on the wall while watching LOTR.