Hall of Fire Reviews - Post Them Here! [SPOILERS!]
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Voronwë the Faithful
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I don't think that is fair, yov. Jewel said "much of the negative reaction" not "all of the negative reaction." I think her point is well taken, even though I was not as positive about the film as she is (nor as negative as you). Much of the negative reaction that I have seen really can be traced to the fact that Jackson made the so-called "simple children's tale" into more of an LOTR-type epic (conversely much of the negative reaction has been due to the fact that the source material is lighter than LOTR). Your opinion that it is not a very good film is certainly valid (and I even agree to a large extent), but it doesn't negate Jewel's point.yovargas wrote:Since you were speaking for a group I am a part of, I felt like my 2 cents were worth throwing back in there.
I do think that there is a chance that if you see again, you will like it better.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
It wasn't meant as a jab or anything. I just think as someone who didn't like the movie for many of the reasons mentioned in negative reviews, I probably have a better idea of why many didn't like it than someone who did. The movie has very many legit weaknesses that have nothing to do with it's comparison to LOTR. I could just as easily say that I think much of the positive reaction is due to left-over positivity for LOTR making people overlook that it's not actually very good, but that's not really fair to the people who did like it for what it is.
I wanna love somebody but I don't know how
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists
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JewelSong
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Fair enough. Except that, during and right after my first viewing, I felt much as you did - I even posted that I agreed with you. It took a couple of days of "settling" before I realized that I actually did like it.I probably have a better idea of why many didn't like it than someone who did.
But, as I said, you may throw in your two cents anytime.
"Live! Live! Live! Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death!" - Auntie Mame
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Voronwë the Faithful
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As Jewel said, fair enough. I think there is certainly a basis for holding that opinion. But it is an opinion, and you seem to be stating it as if it is the only possible valid opinion, which I always find annoying, whether it is expressing a negative opinion or a positive one. But I guess that is my issue, not yours.
I am, however, curious to see whether, if you go see it again, you end up changing your opinion, as Jewel did. I hope you are not closing yourself off from that possibility. Knowing you as I do, I'm not too worried about that, however. You're a pretty open-minded sort.
I am, however, curious to see whether, if you go see it again, you end up changing your opinion, as Jewel did. I hope you are not closing yourself off from that possibility. Knowing you as I do, I'm not too worried about that, however. You're a pretty open-minded sort.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
I don't necessarily dislike the fact that PJ expanded the Hobbit to encompass a larger story. Sure I would have liked to see a simple Hobbit story, but I don't think it would have played as well coming on the heels of LOTR. If the Hobbit were made first, then I think the movie could have been made simpler and grown into LOTR.
With the added back story of the appendixes and Unfinished Tales iirc, there was more than enough material to make another epic that linked to LOTR without the seemingly superfluous invention that PJ et al are so fond of.
I accept that PJ is going to be the master of excess, but he went beyond excess once again and shoved unnecessary invented story down our throats in the form of Azog.
With the added back story of the appendixes and Unfinished Tales iirc, there was more than enough material to make another epic that linked to LOTR without the seemingly superfluous invention that PJ et al are so fond of.
I accept that PJ is going to be the master of excess, but he went beyond excess once again and shoved unnecessary invented story down our throats in the form of Azog.
Having just seen the movie a second time, I liked it a lot more. I still have some issues with it (and some are bigger than any of the problems I had with LotR when it first came out), but the story seemed to work a lot better now that I knew what changes were coming. Also, while parts of the soundtrack jarred me the first time, it felt just as good as LotR on my second viewing. I went with my family, who are either not readers or casual fans, and they all really enjoyed it.
I have to say there's one little dialogue exchange I miss (paraphrased).
Bilbo: Is that the mountain?
Balin: No, that's the Misty Mountains! THE mountain is much farther away.
I feel like it would have been perfect with Freeman and Stott.
Anyone else laugh out loud at Bilbo's "I believe the worst is behind us"? I feel like that's a joke mainly for readers right now...
I have to say there's one little dialogue exchange I miss (paraphrased).
Bilbo: Is that the mountain?
Balin: No, that's the Misty Mountains! THE mountain is much farther away.
I feel like it would have been perfect with Freeman and Stott.
Anyone else laugh out loud at Bilbo's "I believe the worst is behind us"? I feel like that's a joke mainly for readers right now...
Since I don't feel like paying for it again, I'll let you know in about 11 months when my Netflix package arrives.Voronwë the Faithful wrote:I am, however, curious to see whether, if you go see it again, you end up changing your opinion, as Jewel did. I hope you are not closing yourself off from that possibility. Knowing you as I do, I'm not too worried about that, however. You're a pretty open-minded sort.
I wanna love somebody but I don't know how
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists
Just got out of the theater. So much fun! Love the dwarves, love the hobbit, love the wizard, feel sorry for Gollum, didn't even mind the very articulate Goblin King and the Voldemort Orc. I did gag a time or two on the speechifying, but even that did not mar my enjoyment.
Love it.
Love it.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
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Primula Baggins
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Not only that, it's not as salty as it was when you and me wuz whippersnappers. <sighs grumpily>
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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ArathornJax
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Well, I went and saw The Hobbit with my family today for Christmas. First time I've had a chance. A few impressions from the movie and from reading this thread. Someone said tiring and I have to agree that parts of the movie were tiring. This movie just went on and on and on and I firmly believe some parts could have been cut and this could be the extended edition. I am going to hate to see the extended edition for this movie. So here are my likes and dislikes:
Likes:
RA as Thorin. The type of character RA is playing Thorin as works from me, even if his looks do not. Sorry, I want my Thorin to be in his prime, as a white haired, white bearded dwarf whose beard hangs into and out of his belt. What didn't work for me was the Carrock scene where Thorin and Bilbo have their make up session. That was suppose to move me, and for a split millisecond, I almost was moved but then it just didn't work.
Bilbo. This is how a hobbit should be played and Freeman does an outstanding job! I'm starting to see Bilbo's growth as his confidence grows in himself and this should really happen in the next movie.
The Old Friends of Gandalf and Elrond. I would have liked to see Elrond in battle though, that would have been cool.
The Trolls I enjoyed that scene and the viewing at the cave. Long term insurance was a funny comment here whey the dwarfs buried the treasure.
Radagest: I enjoyed it for what it was, some story building and comic relief. Nice to another wizard hold his own at his hut and at Dol Guldor.
The Fall of Erebor and Dale. Loved the look of Thror here and of Thrain and of the entire backdrop. Loved the Arkenstone as well as a build up to the third installment.
Battle of Azanulbizar was done well and I had no major issues. I didn't like that Thror led the battle and Thrain was quickly captured and taken away, never to be seen again nor that Thorin's brother Frerin was killed as was Fundin and Nain. I would have liked to have seen a young Dain Ironfoot slay Azog here.
The Riddle Game: For me the best part of the movie. I laughed and was very attentive during this part of the movie and enjoyed it very much. A tie in that I REALLY did like was the mercy and pity that Bilbo extends to Gollum which ties in with the words of Gandalf in Moria in the Fellowship of the Ring movie. I really enjoyed that reflection and decision making with Bilbo, not done by words but by acting and acting in silence with expression. Freeman was excellent here for me.
Loved the plates scene at Bag End with the dwarves.
Dislikes:
Okay my biggest gripe is that Peter Jackson feels that there has to be a chase going on in order to keep the audience engaged. The Azog hunting of Thorin is like the Black Riders in the movie FOTR, and then the hunting of the Fellowship by the Uruk's of Saruman. Yes, there is a chase sequence in the LOTR books and at time in The Hobbit, but this was just over the top for me. Also, why didn't an Eagle take this guy out? He was just sitting there waiting to be killed? Bad plot hole here for me and it didn't seem right. My only hope is that Beorn will find Azog while Beorn is a bear, and whack his head off and stick it on a stake outside of his (Beorn's) longhouse.
The who Dol Guldur thing was messed up to me. Sauron had returned by now and it was occupied. Gandalf had gone there to check it out, had discovered that it was Sauron and also found the witless Thrain and got the map and key from him. That could have been the back story as much as what Peter Jackson did here and it could have added more tension as the council begins to ponder what to do and sets a date to move south to attack Dol Guldur. Oh well, it is what it is.
The Great Goblin. I liked how he looked, I like his part, but he just didn't know when to leave and I would have preferred to see him killed at his throne as in the book.
The Whole Misty Mountains Goblin Fleeing Scene. That went on, and on, and on and on and I grew tired of it.
The notion of Thranduil not helping the dwarves as he leads his people back to Mirkwood was just stupid. I know some like him riding a massive Elk, but that doesn't work for me. No, he wasn't there, Thranduil had no knowledge that Smaug was coming and this belittles the real reason of no trust between the dwarves and the elves but how do you explain that? Perhaps it was needed but I just don' like it.
There are some other things I could take issue with but I will leave it at these. So that I have seen. I am going again tomorrow. Sorry its so late to the game.
Neutral On (and I'll take grief I think): The music. I have enjoyed Shore's musical arrangements and from the films, they have been a great take away. This time, besides a few new things I enjoyed (the dwarves acapella singing was one) I felt I just got more of the same with some variations thrown in. It's not a bad thing, just not as good as I was hoping for.
Likes:
RA as Thorin. The type of character RA is playing Thorin as works from me, even if his looks do not. Sorry, I want my Thorin to be in his prime, as a white haired, white bearded dwarf whose beard hangs into and out of his belt. What didn't work for me was the Carrock scene where Thorin and Bilbo have their make up session. That was suppose to move me, and for a split millisecond, I almost was moved but then it just didn't work.
Bilbo. This is how a hobbit should be played and Freeman does an outstanding job! I'm starting to see Bilbo's growth as his confidence grows in himself and this should really happen in the next movie.
The Old Friends of Gandalf and Elrond. I would have liked to see Elrond in battle though, that would have been cool.
The Trolls I enjoyed that scene and the viewing at the cave. Long term insurance was a funny comment here whey the dwarfs buried the treasure.
Radagest: I enjoyed it for what it was, some story building and comic relief. Nice to another wizard hold his own at his hut and at Dol Guldor.
The Fall of Erebor and Dale. Loved the look of Thror here and of Thrain and of the entire backdrop. Loved the Arkenstone as well as a build up to the third installment.
Battle of Azanulbizar was done well and I had no major issues. I didn't like that Thror led the battle and Thrain was quickly captured and taken away, never to be seen again nor that Thorin's brother Frerin was killed as was Fundin and Nain. I would have liked to have seen a young Dain Ironfoot slay Azog here.
The Riddle Game: For me the best part of the movie. I laughed and was very attentive during this part of the movie and enjoyed it very much. A tie in that I REALLY did like was the mercy and pity that Bilbo extends to Gollum which ties in with the words of Gandalf in Moria in the Fellowship of the Ring movie. I really enjoyed that reflection and decision making with Bilbo, not done by words but by acting and acting in silence with expression. Freeman was excellent here for me.
Loved the plates scene at Bag End with the dwarves.
Dislikes:
Okay my biggest gripe is that Peter Jackson feels that there has to be a chase going on in order to keep the audience engaged. The Azog hunting of Thorin is like the Black Riders in the movie FOTR, and then the hunting of the Fellowship by the Uruk's of Saruman. Yes, there is a chase sequence in the LOTR books and at time in The Hobbit, but this was just over the top for me. Also, why didn't an Eagle take this guy out? He was just sitting there waiting to be killed? Bad plot hole here for me and it didn't seem right. My only hope is that Beorn will find Azog while Beorn is a bear, and whack his head off and stick it on a stake outside of his (Beorn's) longhouse.
The who Dol Guldur thing was messed up to me. Sauron had returned by now and it was occupied. Gandalf had gone there to check it out, had discovered that it was Sauron and also found the witless Thrain and got the map and key from him. That could have been the back story as much as what Peter Jackson did here and it could have added more tension as the council begins to ponder what to do and sets a date to move south to attack Dol Guldur. Oh well, it is what it is.
The Great Goblin. I liked how he looked, I like his part, but he just didn't know when to leave and I would have preferred to see him killed at his throne as in the book.
The Whole Misty Mountains Goblin Fleeing Scene. That went on, and on, and on and on and I grew tired of it.
The notion of Thranduil not helping the dwarves as he leads his people back to Mirkwood was just stupid. I know some like him riding a massive Elk, but that doesn't work for me. No, he wasn't there, Thranduil had no knowledge that Smaug was coming and this belittles the real reason of no trust between the dwarves and the elves but how do you explain that? Perhaps it was needed but I just don' like it.
There are some other things I could take issue with but I will leave it at these. So that I have seen. I am going again tomorrow. Sorry its so late to the game.
Neutral On (and I'll take grief I think): The music. I have enjoyed Shore's musical arrangements and from the films, they have been a great take away. This time, besides a few new things I enjoyed (the dwarves acapella singing was one) I felt I just got more of the same with some variations thrown in. It's not a bad thing, just not as good as I was hoping for.
1. " . . . (we are ) too engrossed in thinking of everything as a preparation or training or making one fit -- for what? At any minute it is what we are and are doing, not what we plan to be and do that counts."
J.R.R. Tolkien in his 6 October 1940 letter to his son Michael Tolkien.
2. We have many ways using technology to be in touch, yet the larger question is are we really connected or are we simply more in touch? There is a difference.
J.R.R. Tolkien in his 6 October 1940 letter to his son Michael Tolkien.
2. We have many ways using technology to be in touch, yet the larger question is are we really connected or are we simply more in touch? There is a difference.
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Voronwë the Faithful
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I just saw it for the second time, and as has been the case for several others, I liked it quite a bit more than the first time. The only thing that I truly disliked was the whole ridiculous Azog the Idiot thing. It is amazing to me that they could be so misguided. And he is still around, so we can expect more in the next film where he will be even more extraneous. Oh joy.
The only thing that I noticed this time that I didn't notice before (and in fact have not seen mentioned anywhere), is that Gollum has a single tear run down his cheek just before Bilbo spares him out of Pity. If anything, I found that scene even more moving the second time.
24 fps, 2D this time. I missed the incredible clarity of the 48 fps, but I didn't miss the 3D. We ended up sitting too close because we were later than we should have been, but I could see things very well.
A very uneven affair. Could have been a masterpiece if Jackson had some sense of restraint. It amazes me that he could do some things so well, and yet be so clueless about other things.
The only thing that I noticed this time that I didn't notice before (and in fact have not seen mentioned anywhere), is that Gollum has a single tear run down his cheek just before Bilbo spares him out of Pity. If anything, I found that scene even more moving the second time.
24 fps, 2D this time. I missed the incredible clarity of the 48 fps, but I didn't miss the 3D. We ended up sitting too close because we were later than we should have been, but I could see things very well.
A very uneven affair. Could have been a masterpiece if Jackson had some sense of restraint. It amazes me that he could do some things so well, and yet be so clueless about other things.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
As has ever been his won't, sadly. One just has to take the great and try to ignore the bad. That's why I will still buy the tie-ins and lap up all the incredible detail and love that goes into these films...I can take the perfect parts and imagine how the rest could have been, in my head!Voronwë the Faithful wrote:A very uneven affair. Could have been a masterpiece if Jackson had some sense of restraint. It amazes me that he could do some things so well, and yet be so clueless about other things.
Oh, that would have been perfect! If only we could have seen that in AUJ! It would have allowed us a brief glimpse of this great bear, whilst still keeping his identity and significance a secret until DoS, and would have tied up the stupid storyline in AUJ where it deserves to end - I might even have forgiven PJ for Azog the Idiot if we could have had that!ArathornJax wrote:Okay my biggest gripe is that Peter Jackson feels that there has to be a chase going on in order to keep the audience engaged. The Azog hunting of Thorin is like the Black Riders in the movie FOTR, and then the hunting of the Fellowship by the Uruk's of Saruman. Yes, there is a chase sequence in the LOTR books and at time in The Hobbit, but this was just over the top for me. Also, why didn't an Eagle take this guy out? He was just sitting there waiting to be killed? Bad plot hole here for me and it didn't seem right. My only hope is that Beorn will find Azog while Beorn is a bear, and whack his head off and stick it on a stake outside of his (Beorn's) longhouse.
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
~Diana Cortes