Alatar's Spoiler Thread

[Alatar]

Adding my original review to keep it all in one spot!

Ok, so here's my Non-spoiler review.

I loved it. Really loved it. In a strange way, I think I may even prefer it to LotR. Wait... I'm not insane! Its not as breathtaking as LotR was, but its also not as uneven. I can't recall any moment that was a breathtaking as the Lighting of the Beacons, or Gandalf's ride through Minas Tirith, but crucially, there were no jarring moments for me. No Nuclear Galadriel, no Denethor Flambee, no Scrubbing Bubbles. It is, in my opinion, the best adaptation of a Tolkien novel yet. Not because its purist, cause it isn't, but because it "feels" like The Hobbit. I was really, really surprised how close in tone it is to the books. Even the Troll scene, which I fully expected to be brought closer in tone to LotR was pure Hobbit. I'm not saying its the same, but it has the same tone. The same is true of almost every scene. Which would of course make you wonder, well how about all that "Holy Epic Backstory Batman". The Erebor and Azanulbizar backflashes are brilliant, and the White Council material is just fantastic, and yet somehow PJ has managed to marry the high fantasy style of these stories with the childlike tone and adventure quality of The Hobbit. Its a seriously impressive feat.

On the characters. Martin Freeman is right up there with Ian McKellan as the best ever performance of a Tolkien character. He inhabits Bilbo seamlessly. Every look and gesture is intelligently acted, beautifully balancing the sincerity with the bluster. I adored him. Richard Armitage as Thorin has done what Sean Bean did with Boromir. It may not be the character of Thorin from the book, and some will miss that, but I loved it. You care about Movie Thorin in a way I never did about Book Thorin. He's a proud insufferable git, but he has heart and depth. Of course, we learn to love him mostly through Ken Stott's portrayal of Balin. One of my favourite of the Dwarves from the book, and also the movie. Beautiful, subtle performance. James Nesbitt had some lovely moments also and shone through. Fili and Kili were nice, but nothing special, in many ways reminiscent of Merry and Pippin, characterwise. Ori had some nice moments, as did Dori. Nori was a bit invisible. Gloin had some impact in places, but Oin not so much. Bifur and Bombur had little to do. Dwalin was a bit of a curiosity. He just looks too tall! Whew, thats all 13 right?

Ian McKellan is back with a bang. You can see why he prefers Gandalf the Grey to Gandalf the White. Consummate performance. Just perfection. Radagast is great, a bit OTT on some of the comedy reactions, but perfect for the kids movie this is. I had no problem with him. Elrond is great here, a nice change from grumpy Elrond of LotR, much more likeable. Oh, and nice cameo from Figwit! Christopher Lee gives us a lovely nuanced Saruman, proud and arrogant, but for now still with his heart in the right place. And then there's Cate Blanchett. Oh sweet Lord she was amazing. Why oh why did PJ feel he had to mess with her character in LotR. THIS was the Galadriel I wanted to see in Fellowship. Just sublime.

Now to the baddies. The Pale Orc, Azog, was for me the least successful character. I remember Ang Lee talking about the difficulty of making the Incredible Hulk appear real, no matter how good the CG, simply because green skin looks fake. I think the same must be true of white skin, because this character just didn't work for me. Strangely enough, I fully expected to hate the Great Goblin, but this really worked for me, again, in the context of a kids movie. Nice job by Dame Edna! Of course, the central "baddie" in this move was Gollum and boy did he deliver. Again, I found his performance in Towers to be played too often for laughs, and not sinister enough. That's rectified here, and the Riddles in the Dark section is probably one of the best Tolkien scenes on film to date. They made the split personality really work here, and "stinker" was genuinely frightening. As for the moment in the corridor, where the pity of Bilbo rules the fate of many? Chills. Just. Chills.

Finally, the 48FPS. All I can say is that I didn't notice all this supposed "fake BBC" but maybe thats cause I watch and like BBC shows. I dunno. I thought it looked spectacular. Probably the best thing I can say about it is that the 3D was completely natural. I never felt like I was struggling to focus, or that I was getting a headache. I frankly forgot I had the glasses on. That said, I'm sure the movie will look equally gorgeous in 24FPS non 3D. Except for the Eagles. That bit is just stunning in the ultra high def 3D.

So there you go. For reference I should point out that I'm not as much of a fan of The Hobbit as a book as I am of LotR, and that in general I'm easily pleased by decent CG, so don't expect your reaction to be the same if your tastes differ!

But I bloody loved it.

Feel free to ask me any questions and I'll do my best to answer them even if I think you shouldn't ask!

[Dave_LF]

Which subjects should we avoid spoilers on?

[Alatar]

All of them. Be surprised.

In fact I believe the trailers have spoiled some of the best moments in the movie, and I skipped all the TV Clips.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Regarding the trailer, does the "You've got to be joking" line appear in the same way as in the trailer, after the Great Goblin falls on the Dwarves?

[Alatar]

Yes, it does. Timing is a little different, but its essentially the same.

[Dave_LF]

Some of the best moments in LotR ending up being ones that weren't in the books at all (e.g. Boromir pondering the ring on Caradhras). Is the same true for AUJ? (not asking for a list)

[Alatar]

Yes. There's some lovely character moments.

[kzer_za]

Is the Goblin King throne stuff as bad as we feared?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Oooh, good question!

[Stranger Wings]

Thanks for doing this Al! My ten questions are below.

I include my own SPOILERS below, for those who don't want to be too spoiled.

1. For some reason, I've been dying to get a good look at Thror and Thrain. Do they register during the Erebor and Moria flashbacks?

2. Would you say there are more quiet and subtle moments in this film than in the LOTR films? More lingering and enjoying Middle Earth than rushing and hopping from landscape to landscape?

3. We apparently see Thranduil on a stag. Does that work?

4. Telemachos mentioned that the ravens, or the birds of Erebor, make an appearance. Do you remember how?

5. Does the ending work? Is it genuinely emotional, or does it seem forced? Also, is there really a full, group hug?

6. How does the good morning dialogue play out? Does Gandalf have his lines about "do you mean it is a morning to be good on, etc?" and does Bilbo say "good morning!" again to indicate "good bye!?"

7. Does Bifur's axe-in-the-head get any closeups?

8. Is there a food fight at Rivendell? I haven't heard about it, if there is.

9. We have seen an extended clip of Goblin town. Is the whole sequence like that? Also, what do you mean by the Great Goblin appealing to kids? He seems perfectly horrifying. Is it just that he looks cartoonish, or that he behaves like an animated character?

10. Last but not least, we have heard very little commentary on "Out of the Frying Pan, Into the Fire." Does that play as a massive action set piece, and/or is it more subtly done, with fire and moonlight, etc? Also, do we get the song from the orcs: fifteen birds in five fir trees?

Yes, I know I snuck in over fifteen questions in ten, but I must know!! (even though I will see it ij 5 days...)

Thanks again,
SA

[Lalaith]

Here's my spoiler question so I can be prepared:














Who dies that I will care about? I won't care about goblins and all of that, but, of the good characters, does anyone die in this movie?

[Alatar]

Is the Goblin King throne stuff as bad as we feared?

Didn't appear at all in the Theatrical Cut. I suspect PJ is saving it for the EE.

I for one was glad it wasn't there! Biblo does get covered in Troll Snot though, in a strange Harry Potter moment!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Good to know! I look forward to your answers to SA's and Lali's questions!

[Alatar]

1. For some reason, I've been dying to get a good look at Thror and Thrain. Do they register during the Erebor and Moria flashbacks?

Very much so. I can give further spoilers if requested, but suffice it to say they both get their moments

2. Would you say there are more quiet and subtle moments in this film than in the LOTR films? More lingering and enjoying Middle Earth than rushing and hopping from landscape to landscape?

About the same I would say.

3. We apparently see Thranduil on a stag. Does that work?

It looked awesome to me. Your mileage may vary.

4. Telemachos mentioned that the ravens, or the birds of Erebor, make an appearance. Do you remember how?

Yes, I do, but I'd prefer not to spoil that unless you really want me to.

5. Does the ending work? Is it genuinely emotional, or does it seem forced? Also, is there really a full, group hug?

The ending works, mostly. Thorin's hug goes on a bit long for me. I would have imagined him to be more reserved. The group hug seemed to me to be just the Dwarves pairing up and hugging each other in relief, rather than this:

6. How does the good morning dialogue play out? Does Gandalf have his lines about "do you mean it is a morning to be good on, etc?" and does Bilbo say "good morning!" again to indicate "good bye!?"

Its almost verbatim. Bilbo does use the "good Morning" again to indicate "Goodbye", but Gandalf doesn't respond with "What a lot of things you use Good Morning for". So the first part is verbatim (from memory), but the very last line is dropped. And he doesn't invite Gandalf to tea.

7. Does Bifur's axe-in-the-head get any closeups?

No. Its clearly visible in several shots but no closeup or reference is made to it apart from Bifur speaking Khuzdul to Gandalf at one stage.

8. Is there a food fight at Rivendell? I haven't heard about it, if there is.

No. There's a little comedic moment you've all seen in the trailers that involves food being thrown.

9. We have seen an extended clip of Goblin town. Is the whole sequence like that? Also, what do you mean by the Great Goblin appealing to kids? He seems perfectly horrifying. Is it just that he looks cartoonish, or that he behaves like an animated character?

I haven't seen the extended clip of Goblin town but I assume its the main chase scene. If so, yes its mostly like that. As for the Great Goblin being horrifying, only in a Panto Villain sort of way. Azog is scary, the Great Goblin is just disgusting. I'll throw in a freebie here. He refers to Orcrist and Glamdring as Biter and Beater But, yeah, my kids would love that scene. Its like something from Indiana Jones, which is pure rollicking adventure fun.

10. Last but not least, we have heard very little commentary on "Out of the Frying Pan, Into the Fire." Does that play as a massive action set piece, and/or is it more subtly done, with fire and moonlight, etc? Also, do we get the song from the orcs: fifteen birds in five fir trees?

No song, but its a massive set piece. Gandalf setting fire to Acorns is in, but the main difference is that the Trees are on an outcrop over a ledge and the wargs start to push them over, leaving the Dwarves dangling. When it looks like all is lost, Thorin seems to decide he's at least going to go out fighting.

Trying to give you answers without spoiling everything, so please let me know if you want more.

[Alatar]

Here's my spoiler question so I can be prepared:


Who dies that I will care about? I won't care about goblins and all of that, but, of the good characters, does anyone die in this movie?

Nobody.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Trying to give you answers without spoiling everything, so please let me know if you want more.

From my perspective, you have achieved a good balance.

[Primula Baggins]

From mine, too. This is just at the level of relieving worries and hinting at good stuff without massive spoilerage. I can't believe I'll see it on Friday!

[Lalaith]

Okay, good news (for now, anyway)!

I get to see it Friday, too! 10am EST.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

That's Friday as in this week. Just in case you guys didn't quite get that.

Next week for me, but still!

[Dave_LF]

The Slate review complains about the dwarves' song having "so many stanzas." On the soundtrack, the thing features two verses and is all of 100 seconds long. Does the film give us more, or is the reviewer just really impatient?