The Cinemacon footage

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The Cinemacon footage

Post by Alatar »

First reviews are not good....


http://forums.theonering.com/viewtopic. ... 04#3994004
I came to CinemaCon just to see the ten minutes of The Hobbit that Warner Bros showed today. I'm not exaggerating; I don't even have press creds, so I can't get into anything else. The good people at Warner Bros hooked me up with a ticket to the presentation, for which I am indebted to them... and which is making me feel bad for what I am about to write.

The reason it felt important to come to Vegas for this presentation was that The Hobbit was being shown at 48 frames per second. This is the new projection standard that the gearhead titans like James Cameron and Peter Jackson have been touting. The presentation today was to largely sell the CinemaCon audience - 90% made up of theater owners - on buying new equipment to show movies at this frame rate.

As the presentation started I gasped. The footage began with sweeping helicopter shots of mountains, and it was like I was floating over them myself. It looked stunning (this was also in 3D, by the way) and I truly felt like I was seeing something new, something that would redefine the theatrical experience.

And then the rest of the footage played.

I've been trying to figure out how to explain to you why this footage looked bad. First it's worth noting that the CinemaCon honchos bragged that their projection system in that theater was the most advcanced and best ever assembled by man. That's almost a direct quote. So the presentation would almost certainly never be better than what I saw today.

Second, I must say that it's possible there will be lots of post-production work done to offset some of the lighting issues. I also assume that the few 'complete' scenes we saw will continue to be edited before release.

With those caveats out of the way, here's what The Hobbit looked like to me: a hi-def version of the 1970s I, Claudius. It is drenched in a TV-like - specifically 70s era BBC - video look. People on Twitter have asked if it has that soap opera look you get from badly calibrated TVs at Best Buy, and the answer is an emphatic YES.

The 48fps footage I saw looked terrible. It looked completely non-cinematic. The sets looked like sets. I've been on sets of movies on the scale of The Hobbit, and sets don't even look like sets when you're on them live... but these looked like sets.
The other comparison I kept coming to, as I was watching the footage, was that it all looked like behind the scenes video. The magical illusion of cinema is stripped away completely.

As I said above the landscape shots are breathtaking. 48fps is the future of nature documentaries. But if it's the future of narrative cinema I don't know if that future includes me.
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Post by yovargas »

Does anybody know why high def TVs sometimes get that "soap opera look"? I've been very curious about it since I first encountered it. I have found that look very off-putting too but I've also wondered if it truly does look "bad" or if it's just that were not used to it. Hmmm....
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Post by Lalaith »

Oh dear.

Well, I noticed that with a movie I watched at my friend's house. (Bridesmaids, okay? I know--high quality cinema there.) Anyway, it looked like a soap opera. Is this the new look for films on giant, hi-def TVs?
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Post by Elentári »

Well...I'm not going to worry particularly about the technical aspects until I've seen footage for myself, but the actual content of the screenplay that was revealed bears some discussion:

A neat write-up of Quickbeam's report on the TORn Live chat courtesy of Silverlode...


some tidbits revealed in the 10 minutes of footage…

•The White Council featuring Saruman, Gandalf, Galadriel and Elrond.
•Riddles in the Dark with Sméagol and Bilbo
•The Trolls – Tom, Bert and Bill – all with cockney dialogue!
•Gandalf in Dol Guldur with Thrain
•Legolas and Tauriel in an action sequence and a tense threat to Thorin!
•Radagast the Brown in a bit of comedic glory

Refering back to the link Al gave to the TORC write-up, also this interesting reveal:
Hidden text.
We also saw Gandalf investigating the rising darkness. In one scene he is at a table with Elrond, Galadriel and Saruman, talking about ancient tombs that have been opened - ancient tombs with such strong binding spells no one should have been able to get in. Then there's a scene of Gandalf investigating the open tomb, where he runs into a very silly Radagast the Brown, who has some birds under his hat (we also saw a shot of his sled being pulled by bunnies). It turns out the opened tombs belong the nine Ring Wraiths.
Don't know why this perturbs me...other than I wouldn't have thought that the Nazgûl actually had a need for tombs! :scratch:
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Post by Alatar »

Seriously though, Radagast in a sled pulled by bunnies?
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Post by Lalaith »

:help: Bunnies?

Were they at least big bunnies?

(I'm surprised PJ didn't go with Monty Python killer bunnies. :roll: )
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Post by Alatar »

Some thoughts from Quickbeam over on TORN, as noted down by Silverlode:

PJ's intro was mostly about the technical aspects, saying that this change in frame rate is analogous to moving from silent to sound.

Opening shots were helicopter shots, similar to opening of TTT. Gorgeous. Sunrise over Misty Mountains to the fluting strains of Howard Shore music. Followed by a few shots that were seen in the trailer, intros of characters, etc.

Dol Guldur/Thrain - Gandalf is seen wandering through sub-dungeon of Dol Guldur, searching through corridors as if being chased. Thrain crazed, out his mind from torture, jumps out of the dark in a "Boo!" moment and attacks Gandalf. Yes, this is the scene from the trailer. Thrain's face is not closely seen. No other creatures are seen there.

Scenes of Bilbo in the Shire, mostly stuff we've seen in the trailer or vlogs. Martin Freeman as Bilbo is very different from other hobbits. He has a lightness and elan, with a very light comedic touch. Not like slapstick humor of Merry & Pippin. Fresh, funny, approachable, comedic but not too much. Quickbeam was very enthusiastic about his performance.

Saruman/White Council - this was still green screen, no grading or background effects added yet. Elrond, Galadriel, Gandalf are shown sitting with Saruman. Radagast was not present. Galadriel looking at a sword, identifies as a Morgul blade. Everyone is aghast as she tells the history of the blade as she says it is the sword of the Witch-King and he was destroyed long before in battles with the North Kingdom. He was held in a dungeon in the North from which he should not have been able to escape but Galadriel is afraid that this means he has. Saruman is studying it carefully, with maybe a glint in his eye.

Galadriel touching Gandalf's face. The context is Galadriel asking Gandalf why he chose this particular hobbit. Gandalf says, almost to himself, that it is because he sometimes feels a little afraid and Bilbo gives him courage. Galadriel touches his face and tells him not to be afraid, that he always has friends.

Radagast - Gandalf is shown alone in the dark with his staff lit, searching through catacombs where the ringwraith's tombs are...then Radagast appears suddenly. Both put their staffs down the tunnel to see the tombs broken open. Radagast seems rather childlike, like he is more in tune what animals than people. Radagast's staff is similar to Gandalf's; a knobbly wooden staff. Radagast is "weird and wonderful" looks nothing like the Decipher card. This is a new Radagast is an "unbelievable, crazy, cool, mess", with a bird's nest on his head. Quickbeam loved his appearance and style. Radagast was only shown in the dark, "Moria-style" dungeon which was only lit by Gandalf's staff. It was hard to see costume details but they appeared to be a mixture of black and brown, with a "weird shaped" hat with flaps on it. He has a bird nest on his head under his hat. Was conversing with Gandalf about the crypts/tombs that had once belonged to the Ringwraiths. Radagast also has a staff. The only other shot of Radagast was him flying by in his sled. Radagast has a sled that runs on the forest floor, drawn by larger-than-life (but not giant) grey jackrabbits. Q really liked the sled, thought it was cool.

Mirkwood, the dwarves are shown after their spider sequence, they are covered in spider webs. Don't see much of Mirkwood, what is seen has spider webs everywhere. Tauriel slides into the scene with bow and arrow at the ready. Brown outfit with braided hairdo. Medium brown hair (not blond). Legolas appeared at the end of the scene with Tauriel. AS the dwarves are running covered in webs, they are suddenly confronted by Elves, and Legolas has an arrow pointed at Thorin's nose, saying "I will not hesitate to kill you, dwarf!" setting up for his attitude in LOTR. His costume is the same as LOTR. Tauriel's is similar, but in brown rather than green.

Not shown in the footage - No shot of Thranduil. No Laketown, no Elven halls. No shots of spiders or eagles. No Beorn. No Rhosgobel or Necromancer. No shots of Dale, Lonely Mountain or any hint of Smaug. No shots of goblins. No Bard or Master of Laketown. No hint of Aragorn/Rangers, etc. No shots of the Ring. Not much of the music, it's still be worked on. No dwarf singing, no Elves on horseback, no wargs, no goblins. No dwarf women.

Dwarves - Dwarves look great, with a lot of detail. Some are presented in a comedic way, some serious, all very different and distinct characters. No more dwarf singing. Sounds like mostly what we've already seen in trailer and vlogs except for one brief shot of dwarves in barrels on the river, with some effects tape visible - not a finished scene.

Trolls - They showed about a minute and a half of troll scene. Features some camera shots from above, creating a good sense of perspective with the live actors. Scene begins with a scene of Bilbo suddenly caught by "ginormous" hill trolls. In the troll scene, all the dwarves come runnign to rescue Bilbo. One of the younger ones takes an axe stroke at the legs of one troll, others stab at their feet. The trolls are articulate in speech with heavy Cockney accents. The scene goes similar to the book but not exactly. Wallet is not shown (or heard). "burrahobbit" is in, though we hear a "g" sound in there so it comes out like "burgahobbit". One of the trolls reminded Q a little of "Sloth" from The Goonies, with a slightly misshapen face

Riddle scene - Gollum is a "new vision" because he is now in 48fps. Scene is established with Bilbo begging for a way out of the cave but Gollum wants to play riddles. He identifies himself as Sméagol. Gollum regrets giving his name as Bilbo later regrets giving his. The Riddle scene was shown intercut with action scene with trolls, running with spiderwebs, Bilbo in the Shire. Gollum is mostly being Sméagol because he's trying to interact with another being that isn't a goblin. Bilbo still feels threatened and has Sting out in a defensive way. Sting is not glowing yet (there are no orcs present). Bilbo is wearing the same color jacket in the cave scene as in LOTR - he apparently leaves Rivendell wearing that jacket. - the scene ends with Gollum proposing the "stakes" - Bilbo saying if he wins, Gollum has to show him the way out. Gollum agrees and says that if he wins, "we gets to eats it raw". Bilbo hesitates and then agrees. Gollum comes off as attracted by the idea of talking with a fellow being, but also hungry, so we get a sense of the schizophrenic Seamgol/Gollum divide.

Returning characters - Christopher Lee might look slightly older, but Gandalf and Galadriel look the same. The returning characters look just the same as in LOTR. Legolas appears briefly.

Frame rate/3D - 48fps was crystal-clear and vivid, not like watching film. The images are "very sharp", the depth of field is "amazing". Quickbeam says he doesn't know if it's "too clear", it is very different and it you'll have to acclimate to it. The prosthetics did not look fake. The digital work of the CGI creatures looks even better at the higher frame rate. He says the trolls look fantastic. It will take some getting used to, whether people will like it immediately or not is hard to tell. It looks brighter and more vivid than LOTR footage. If there are complaints about the new framerate "I'm not surprised, welcome to the new frontier." It's a major change that will take adjustment. Fans will have the choice to see it in 2D or 3D -yes, 3D glasses will be needed. Quickbeam wore his comfortably over his usual glasses at this event. There were no scenes of "gimmick" 3D with things coming straight out of the screen, more a sense of depth in the image.
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Post by Elentári »

Sorry if it wasn't clear, Al, but that's exactly the report by Silverlode that I linked to in my post above! :)

Oh, and as for the bunnies, perhaps they're just an Easter egg for fans... ;)
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Post by vison »

I hope so.

For the luvva pete. :x
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Post by yovargas »

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Post by Alatar »

Ok, my initial thoughts.

Don't know what to think about the 48fps stuff
Not too pleased with the Radagast stuff
Pleased about nearly everything else

I really like the idea of the Nazgûl tombs, somehow makes the whole Necromancer angle work better if he's actually raising from the dead!
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Post by Dave_LF »

Except they're not dead, and that fact is an essential part of what they are.

I guess they could just be "tombs" in the sense that the Nazgûl are locked away there and (supposedly) can't get out.
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Post by vison »

Dave_LF wrote:Except they're not dead, and that fact is an essential part of what they are.

I guess they could just be "tombs" in the sense that the Nazgûl are locked away there and (supposedly) can't get out.
That was my thought, too.
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Post by Alatar »

Yeah, I get that this may annoy the purist, but in Movie-verse it works really well. In fact much better than most of the Book Hobbit works with Book LotR. ;)
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I don't have a problem with any of it, at least at this point. If Quickbeam liked Radagast and his sled, I'm prepared to do so as well!
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Post by Primula Baggins »

The 48fps complaints sound like what my camera-operator son has been saying. But he also says he's going to wait to see the finished product before judging. One thing I've learned watching him learn is that shooting a film is the least of it. He spends many more hours in post making the lighting and color temperatures flow from scene to scene so the editor can use it all seamlessly.
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

This article from EW has more details, including actual dialogue (see the second page; the first page is about the controversy about the frame rate):

http://insidemovies.ew.com/2012/04/24/c ... he-hobbit/
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Post by axordil »

It does bear mentioning that The Hobbit is generally perceived of as a children's adventure story, with a lighter tone on average than LOTR. If the dark parts are going to be dark, there need to be enough light touches to keep it in that ballpark.

I can very much see why Saruman would rage at this Radagast's "squandering" of his power and knowledge. Gandalf he might belittle, but Gandalf at least got results. ;)
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Post by Dave_LF »

a grave discovery he has made — a Morgul sword
That hurt a little.
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Post by CosmicBob »

Alatar wrote:I really like the idea of the Nazgûl tombs, somehow makes the whole Necromancer angle work better if he's actually raising from the dead!
I also think it's a good angle. Not that they were dead, but that they needed to be freed from the tombs.

I will not worry about the 48fps because Jackson won't let crappy visuals go out the door.
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