Author Doug Adams returns to the SoundCast to talk about Howard Shore's score for part one of THE HOBBIT trilogy. Find out which Tracksounds staffer has yet to see the film, how the presentation format of the film effected our experience, how the score caused some headscratching, and how this whole thing is just a huge "game of themes."
Episode Highlights
00:00 Blunt the Opening and Doug Adams Intro
05:46 What we were expecting from this film
19:58 General reactions and comparing to Lord of the Rings
11:45 Reacting to the film and it's music (spoilers)
31:21 Headscratching: Reacting to the score
49:56 A Game of Themes?
78:50 Wrapping it up
Music Selections
00:00 "Blunt the Knives" (The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey SE) by Howard Shore
00:40 "The Adventure Begins" (The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey SE) by Howard Shore
05:23 "The World is Ahead" (The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey SE) by Howard Shore
19:25 "Warg-Scouts" (The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey SE) by Howard Shore
31:04 "A Thunder Battle" (The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey SE) by Howard Shore
50:40 "The Crack of Doom"(LOTR: The Fellowship of the Ring) by Howard Shore
57:41 "Out of the Frying-Pan" (The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey SE) by Howard Shore
59:40 "The Breaking of the Fellowship" (LOTR: The Fellowship of the Ring) by Howard Shore
72:47 "02_Old Friends (Extended)" (The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey SE) by Howard Shore
76:58 "Radagast the Brown (Extended)" (The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey SE) by Howard Shore
83:29 "Dreaming of Bag End" (The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey SE) by Howard Shore
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
Tying in with the above podcast, Doug Adams has posted a "Bilbo Primer" on his Blog
I've received a number of questions regarding Bilbo's material in the AUJ score, so perhaps a simply sketched guidebook is in order. Below is a listing of Bilbo's major thematic connections. These titles are just placeholders for the moment, so don't start canonizing them just yet!
Adventure
The theme heard at 0:15 in the whistle in "The World is Ahead" relates to Bilbo's adventure. (A-B-C#-E-E-G#-G#-A-E-C#-E-D). This theme is first heard in "My Dear Frodo" at approximately 0:37 and comes right on the heels of a gesture in the strings and woodwinds that hints at the History of the Ring theme without ever fully articulating it (Bb-D-F over Bb-major; F-F# over B-minor, etc.) In my opinion, really sets the tone for the score to come. SPOILERS: You also hear this theme near the end of the film when Bilbo leaps in to protect Thorin from Azog.
Baggins/Took
This two-part theme is easily heard in "Dreaming of Bag End." The Baggins phrase appears at 0:10 and the Took phrase takes over at 0:33. It's kind of a single theme and kind of not, which is why I've been hedging my bets and referring to it as one-and-a-half themes. It relates to Bilbo's two primary impulses in the story: the urge to return home and the urge to go adventuring. As his character develops, the two halves begin to function independently. The Took phrase is often orchestrated for solo French horn, which is an unusually bold sound for Hobbit-based music.
Fussy
The "Fussy" Bilbo theme is the triple-meter figure that alternates between D-minor and A-major. That major chord is what I'm on about in the Tracksounds podcast (which you can hear HERE, if you haven't already). It's a more classical sound that we're used to in Middle-earth ... more a part of historically functional harmonies, whereas Middle-earth usually traffics in modes or chromatic leaps. It's just a bit stuffy and put-upon sounding. This theme shows up about half-way through "Axe or Sword," but you also hear in the Trolls sequence.
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
Does anyone know who decided that the music that plays when Barad-dûr falls should be called "Gondor Reborn"? Because if it's a fan idea, then I think it's a case of overfitting from 2 datapoints. Now that AUJ has provided a third, I think the theme need to be reconceptualized as something like "Hobbits honored publicly for their unexpected heroism". Case one: Merry and Pippin cheering for Frodo after the ring goes into the fire. Case two: Aragorn's coronation, which ends in "you bow to no one." Case three: Thorin's reappraisal of Bilbo's worth after the fight with Azog's hunters.
The name comes from Doug Adams' book/liner notes, and the theme itself is a development of the Minas Tirith (Silver Trumpets) theme. Its first appearance is the crossroads scene in ROTK ("The king has his crown again")
I really think they just temp-tracked the hugging scene with the "you bow to no one" music, and either there wasn't time for Shore to write something new, or they liked it so much they just left in (albeit, re-recorded).
Dave_LF wrote:the Nazgûl theme does indeed play over one Thorin moment...The use of the Nazgûl theme was clearly deliberate, though--it was a new arrangement I'd never heard before. So I suspect they're trying to do something with that; we'll see if it comes back again in the next two.
Wait a minute; does Thorin have Thror's ring right now? Is that why he goes mad with lust for gold at the end?
In the interview with RA on IGN, Armitage talks about how they established in AUJ that Thorin's family has an affliction to the Dragon sickness, which is exacerbated the closer they get to the gold. It could be they are not going to feature the Dwarven rings at all, despite the behind-the-scenes clip we've seen of Sir Christopher Lee mentioning the Seven...
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
Dave_LF wrote:the Nazgûl theme does indeed play over one Thorin moment...The use of the Nazgûl theme was clearly deliberate, though--it was a new arrangement I'd never heard before. So I suspect they're trying to do something with that; we'll see if it comes back again in the next two.
Wait a minute; does Thorin have Thror's ring right now? Is that why he goes mad with lust for gold at the end?
I hope not.
Eh, I don't think they'll go that direction. They would have mentioned the rings by now, and I doubt we'll be seeing Thror again.
Jackson has been posting updates to his Facebook page today all day, as this is apparently the last day of shooting. So why I am posting this here, rather than in the general Hobbit thread? Because to my mind the most significant statement that he has made has been about the music:
Music spotting with Howard Shore
Midday. We're shifting from K Stage to F Stage right now, and I took the chance to spot music with Howard Shore. He's in New York, and busy writing the score for Film 2.
"Spotting" involves talking through edited scenes with Howard, and figuring out everything he needs to do a first pass at the music composition - where music should start and stop, what mood it should have, themes to use, moments to punctuate. That type of thing. To stay on schedule, Howard needs 10 mins of cut footage every week. This week we only have 3 & a half mins for him. Fortunately, he's very good natured about it. It's happened once or twice before!
Next week, when I'm back in the cutting room full time, Howard will be getting a deluge!
The score for Film 2 is going to be terrific. Last year, we were a little frustrated because we had to revisit so many of the LotR themes - The Shire, Rivendell, Galadriel, Gollum, and the Ring - we did this because I'm wanting these 3 Hobbit movies to have great unity with the Rings films in design, wardrobe, story and music, so it meant "An Unexpected Journey" had to acknowledge what had gone before.
But this time around, apart from a couple of Ring moments, it's all new: Beorn, Mirkwood, The Woodland Realm, Laketown, Bard and Smaug all give Howard the chance to write brand new themes, and he's knocking it out of the park!
We've now finished yesterday's work, and can start on today's scenes!
Better race back to set before Caro tells me off! More than she already has ....
Sounds great!
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
That's really exciting to me as well. Shore is so creative and imaginative—I can't wait to hear a bunch of new Middle-earth themes from him.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
I hope all Shore's music will be used this time round, though!
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
I hope all Shore's music will be used this time round, though!
To that end, the score is being recorded in New Zealand, with the NZSO (who recorded the Moria section of FOTR), and Shore has brought a couple of orchestrators in to lighten his load:
Doug Adams wrote: Shore is using a couple of orchestrators on the score this time out. Clifford J. Tasner is confirmed, Conrad Pope is in discussions.
Shore used orchestrator Homer Denison on a regular basis for the first 15-or-so years of his career. From The Fly to Analyze This. He hasn't used orchestrators recently, but it's not at all unusual for composers on giant projects with sharp deadlines. Williams uses them all the time. Goldsmith did, too. It's actually quite rare for a film composer not to, in fact. Only Morricone leaps to mind -- and Herrmann back in the day.
Some composers depend on orchestrators to translate their unwieldy mock-ups to something a live human orchestra can actually play. This is not the case with Shore, of course. His sketches are detailed and essentially complete, so the orchestrators' job is perhaps best likened to copy work. This isn't to belittle the job; it's still a ton of work. But this will all be seamless behind-the-scenes stuff. It won't change the final result in any perceptible way. It's still all Shore's music.
Hopefully this will give Shore enough time to do rewrites, if they are necessary. It's rather amazing that he did the trilogy without the aid of an orchestrator -- he's very old school in that he actual writes out his music with a pencil and paper. He is 10+ years older now, and even after ROTK you could see the strain PJ's post production craziness had on him.
Glowah, eee chop glowah.
Ya glowah pee chu nee foom
Ah toot dee awe goon daa.
Glory, we found glory.
The power showed us the light,
And now we all live free.
Celebrate the light; (Freedom!)
Celebrate the might; (Power!)
Celebrate the fight; (Glory!)
Celebrate the love.
Thanks to TheHutt for persisting with those questions we really want answering!
TheHutt
• 11 hours ago
While we are at it - what meaning does the Ringwraith theme have in TH: AUJ finale?
My theory, is if it was intentional, that Azog is actually a Nazgûl, or he was raised from the dead by one, which is a theme in AUJ, the whole necromancer thing. Otherwise I don't get it at all
...
Doug Adams
• 11 hours ago
Well, I'll say this: leitmotifs don't always merely echo what's on the screen. (Or in opera, what's on the stage.) Sometimes they're providing additional information -- foreshadowing, plot threads, subtexts, etc. It's always worth bearing this in mind. After all, what is dramatic music accomplishing if it's limited to a strict redundancy of what's already meeting the eye?
and also:
morro91
• 11 hours ago
Why was the Lórien action theme in Warg Scouts (2:27) over some new Rivendell action theme (which we've never heard before)
Doug Adams Mod > morro91
• 11 hours ago
It's the same melodic line. Whether it represents the same thing in the The Hobbit as it did in LOTR ... that remains to be seen.
DestroyTheAbyss
• 11 hours ago
Is it possible anything from the theatrical edition music will be changed for the extended cut. For instance in FOTR, Frodo's run down to Gandalf at the beginning is muted in original while it has music in the EE. Or will any of the music already in the film for parts, be altered?
I'll say it upfront: I'm guessing you can't answer.
Doug Adams Mod > DestroyTheAbyss
• 11 hours ago
Good guess. You'll see in a few weeks/months why I had to sign so many NDAs for the EE.
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
Many congratulations to Howard Shore on the music to LotR yet again being voted #1 on their top 100 Movie Music chart and the soundtrack to TH:AUJ coming in at #9.
A great testimony to the power and beauty of those scores...
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
Elentári wrote:Many congratulations to Howard Shore on the music to LotR yet again being voted #1 on their top 100 Movie Music chart and the soundtrack to TH:AUJ coming in at #9.
A great testimony to the power and beauty of those scores...
I agree, Elen. In many ways I think that the score is a greater achievement in the realisation of the story than the films themselves. I am very much looking forward to the new themes to be revealed in the next two films.
Elentári wrote:Many congratulations to Howard Shore on the music to LotR yet again being voted #1 on their top 100 Movie Music chart and the soundtrack to TH:AUJ coming in at #9.
A great testimony to the power and beauty of those scores...
I agree, Elen. In many ways I think that the score is a greater achievement in the realisation of the story than the films themselves. I am very much looking forward to the new themes to be revealed in the next two films.
I'm listening to the AuJ soundtrack today after keeping it on the shelf for several months, and I still love it! As with LotR, I enjoy it much more than the movie itself, though in both cases I mean that as praise for the soundtrack rather than criticism of the films.
Looking forward to the DoS previews that should start appearing in the next couple months.
Dave_LF wrote:I'm listening to the AuJ soundtrack today after keeping it on the shelf for several months, and I still love it! As with LotR, I enjoy it much more than the movie itself, though in both cases I mean that as praise for the soundtrack rather than criticism of the films.
Looking forward to the DoS previews that should start appearing in the next couple months.
To me, there are so many wonderful artists involved in these films. Craftsmen, musicians, designers, actors, etc. But the director, and the writing team, are the weakest links. They do not do justice to the creative talent that surrounds them.
I know PB and J have a passion for the material, and film-making, but I just don't think they are very good at either writing or directing.
Dave_LF wrote:I'm listening to the AuJ soundtrack today after keeping it on the shelf for several months, and I still love it! As with LotR, I enjoy it much more than the movie itself, though in both cases I mean that as praise for the soundtrack rather than criticism of the films.
Looking forward to the DoS previews that should start appearing in the next couple months.
To me, there are so many wonderful artists involved in these films. Craftsmen, musicians, designers, actors, etc. But the director, and the writing team, are the weakest links. They do not do justice to the creative talent that surrounds them.
I know PB and J have a passion for the material, and film-making, but I just don't think they are very good at either writing or directing.
I agree with Dave about enjoying the soundtrack more than the films and with you about the talent behind the films. There can be no taking anything away from them. I also agree Jackson loves film making and from what we all saw the LOTR material. I disagree about PB (who I consider an untalented hack) though. Jackson is great when he writes his ORIGINAL screen plays but to me with the Hobbit he has proven he cares nothing for any of Tolkien's other works but LOTR. I find that the Hobbit barely resembles what Tolkien wrote and at this point should have been left alone. I think the soundtrack for it was brilliant but the film just seemed to rehash old themes Which I get tired of hearing we'll find out later. personally I think they screwed up and just wont admit it but that is just my opinion.So far to me the parts of the Hobbit that are the best IS the soundtrack with the first 45 minute of the film coming in second other than that I am not impressed.
If your going to adapt a story you love WHY change it into something else? I truly am curious about that.
