2012 Olympics (spoilers for tape-delayed events)

[Alatar]

Katie Taylor is a gifted athlete. Why should she not compete? My eldest daughter was a black belt in Tae-kwon-do at 12. Should she not have competed? Part of her training was patterns, sure, but she also had to spar, which involves not just punching but kicking someone in the head. She wore a headguard, just like Katie does, and indeed the male boxers do.

Frankly, I find it a much more athletic and skilful sport than many of the others.

ETA: And Paddy Byrne is into the semi finals as well.

[vison]

Blows to the head are always injurious. Without exception.

The head protection worn by boxers is a sad joke. Hockey and football players wear much sturdier helmets and still suffer brain damage. Some people seem to be able to "take it" more, but then - look at Sidney Crosby. One of the greatest hockey players who ever lived and his career may soon be over due to a number of concussions. Also Mario Lemieux.

I'm not saying they aren't "athletes". The Olympics have all kinds of athletes in dozens of disciplines. That's not the point. The point is: head blows hurt the brain.


Muhammed Ali? He took thousands of blows to the head. And look at him. Maybe it wasn't the boxing, but then, maybe it was. I wouldn't want to let my kids take that chance.

[halplm]

Big day in track and field for the US, was a lot of fun to watch.

Was tempered a bit by both the Men's Volleyball and Water Polo teams losing in the quarterfinals.

This has been the year of the Women in US team sports .

Big day tomorrow with Ashton Eaton halfway to the Decathlon finish, and the US Women's Soccer team in a rematch of last year's World Cup final with Japan.

[Primula Baggins]

Ashton Eaton is awesome.

[halplm]

New fun moment for me. I was expecting to watch Volleyball but wrestling was going on instead. My mom came in the room and hates wrestling so I switched to the only other thing on, Dressage.

Thirty seconds later she says, "The horses are dancing! ... This is awesome!"

[Elentári]

Definitely awesome Hal - we just won Gold and Bronze in the "dancing horses" individual event!! Well done Charlotte and Laura!!!

[Alatar]

And Katie wins our first Gold!

[Elentári]

Yes, Gold for GB and Ireland in the women's boxing finals. Nicola Adams and Katie Taylor are both great ambassadors for the sport!

[yovargas]

While dressage is pretty cool, and it may not be popular to say when there's someone here who competes in dressage...the equestrian events are definitely ones that to me feel like they don't belong in the Olympics. Way too much depends on the quality of the horse for it to seem reasonable to give people in these events medals. I suppose you could give the horses medals too?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I bet they would prefer an apple.

[halplm]

Given that one of the goals in dressage is for the rider to NOT show how much they are doing, it's counter intuitive to suggest that them seeming to not to much is less deserving of reward.

And the third women's boxing gold medal goes to the USA!

[yovargas]

Given that one of the goals in dressage is for the rider to NOT show how much they are doing, it's counter intuitive to suggest that them seeming to not to much is less deserving of reward.

Oh, certainly not gonna deny that what they do is hard. My point was just that the horse matters a ton too so it's just, I dunno, "un-Olympics", to me to give the human a medal for what's essentially a human-horse team. I imagine sometimes the less talented rider gets a medal because they have better horse. It would only really make sense to rank the riders if they all used the same horse, which is of course not reasonable so....

[nerdanel]

While dressage is pretty cool, and it may not be popular to say when there's someone here who competes in dressage...the equestrian events are definitely ones that to me feel like they don't belong in the Olympics. Way too much depends on the quality of the horse for it to seem reasonable to give people in these events medals. I suppose you could give the horses medals too?

I've never been sure what to think of that, but I've withheld judgment, not having taken the time to acquaint myself with exactly what is required of the rider (and whether it meets my previous mentioned view of athleticism.)

I read an article in the NYT saying that a lot of people question whether synchronized swimming is a sport ... another one that I haven't formed an opinion of, but it does seem to force competitors to push their bodies physically to the limit (especially their lungs) in the manner that is crucial for me. I've given my opinion of the shooting events based on their failure to do so.

But the "sport" that I am really struggling with is "racewalking" (which Bob Costas apparently once called a "competition for who can whisper the loudest.") On one hand, it seems to measure something completely irrelevant - who can cover a set distance using a technique (a competitive form of walking) that is almost ridiculously slower than the fastest way to cover that same ground (running). On the other hand, I'll credit that it sounds challenging to do competitively; does push the body physically and intensely; and could arguably be analogized (though I do not like this analogy ) to a stroke that is markedly slower than freestyle, like breaststroke. It also sounds like it might be much healthier for the body than running, due to the lack of constant, pounding impact on the knees. So I'm torn between laughing and respecting, but leaning towards respecting. I definitely know that if I was going to show up and work out with racewalkers without a great deal of prior practice, I'd get my butt kicked. What say others?

[yovargas]

But the "sport" that I am really struggling with is "racewalking" (which Bob Costas apparently once called a "competition for who can whisper the loudest.") On one hand, it seems to measure something completely irrelevant - who can cover a set distance using a technique (a competitive form of walking) that is almost ridiculously slower than the fastest way to cover that same ground (running). On the other hand, I'll credit that it sounds challenging to do competitively; does push the body physically and intensely; and could arguably be analogized (though I do not like this analogy ) to a stroke that is markedly slower than freestyle, like breaststroke.

Considering that this is pretty much exactly why I find non-freestyle swimming strokes rather silly, I'd genuinely like to know why you don't care for the analogy. If racewalking is irrelevant, I don't really understand how you could view the breaststroke as less so.



As a totally unrelated observation, I'm kinda surprised that divers need to be in any particularly good kind of shape. I must be missing something there entirely because I don't understand why people in average shape couldn't do exactly what divers do. It wouldn't seem like you'd need super-firm abs and pecs to do some cool flips and then land straight.

[nerdanel]

But the "sport" that I am really struggling with is "racewalking" (which Bob Costas apparently once called a "competition for who can whisper the loudest.") On one hand, it seems to measure something completely irrelevant - who can cover a set distance using a technique (a competitive form of walking) that is almost ridiculously slower than the fastest way to cover that same ground (running). On the other hand, I'll credit that it sounds challenging to do competitively; does push the body physically and intensely; and could arguably be analogized (though I do not like this analogy ) to a stroke that is markedly slower than freestyle, like breaststroke.

Considering that this is pretty much exactly why I find non-freestyle swimming strokes rather silly, I'd genuinely like to know why you don't care for the analogy. If racewalking is irrelevant, I don't really understand how you could view the breaststroke as less so.

Because, truth be told, I see walking as a lesser and easier option than running within the genre of land-based movement; I would be surprised indeed to hear that racewalking was harder than running. For instance, racewalking is so much slower than running that it won't impose the same cardio demands as running. In contrast, the three non-freestyle strokes are not lesser and easier than freestyle; freestyle is actually often described as the easiest of the strokes by those who do all four. Most swimmers would name either butterfly or breaststroke as the hardest of the four to do competitively. (Breaststroke may seem easier than butterfly if you swim it at a relaxed pace, as many recreational swimmers do. But swum at race pace over a 200 meter distance, it actually is in some senses more painful and demanding on the body than a 200 fly.) All strokes, swum at race pace, impose similar cardio demands, and butterfly in particular is arguably much harder than freestyle.* So when it comes to non-freestyle strokes, I'd prefer to analogize them to running with hurdles than to racewalking - i.e., an equally or more difficult option within the same genre than the default fastest option (running on a flat track, or swimming freestyle.)

BTW, for many butterfly specialists, their speed in water is actually as fast or faster than their freestyle. The reason the times tend to come up slightly slower is because flip turns are not permitted during butterfly, so swimmers are restricted to a slower "open turn."

As for divers: things like rotation and splash factor would be impacted significantly by excess body fat. They also need significant strength in order to propel their body high enough into the air, hold their body perfectly rigid where necessary, and perform gymnastics maneuvers in the air for higher-difficulty dives. I think you are underestimating the difficulty and physical requirements of the "cool flips" and the difficulty (and relevance) of the "rather silly" swimming strokes.

*If you think that backstroke doesn't have the same cardio demands, try remaining underwater at each wall for as close to the 15m mark as possible, then come up and sprint the rest of the way for 100m. It's every bit as hard to do as one of the strokes swum face down. And before discounting breaststroke's cardio challenges because you breathe every stroke, be sure to remember to remain underwater in a pulldown until close to the 15m mark before sprinting the remainder of the way.

[yovargas]

Ah, okay, I get your point. Fair enough, I suppose. Though in a way, that makes it even odder in my mind - if other strokes are both more difficult and slower, why would anyone choose to do them?

[River]

I imagine sometimes the less talented rider gets a medal because they have better horse.

I seem to recall Anth angsting about being less talented than her horse and how that's screwing up her horse's performance when she's the one on his back. So I'm not sure I agree that a spiffy horse can compensate for an unspiffy rider. A team, any team, is only as strong as the weakest member. My suspicion is that those who participate in equestrian events are well aware of that and I wonder, in the cases where the horse is owned by someone other than the rider, who ultimately takes the medal home. The rider is presented the medal, yes...but do they keep it?

Anyway, boxing and equestrian events are in the Games because they were in the ancient ones. The style and rules may have changed, but the tradition for these, as well as wrestling and foot-racing and throwing the discus and javelin, is well-established.

[axordil]

Chariot racing and foot racing in armor seem to have dropped out between then and now, so it's not like an ancient event couldn't be dropped.

It all comes down to the national and international organizations attached to specific events and their behind-the-scenes political clout.

[halplm]

Hope Solo had two of the best saves in the soccer tournament for USA gold!

[River]

Chariot racing and foot racing in armor seem to have dropped out between then and now, so it's not like an ancient event couldn't be dropped.

Oh but imagine the awesomeness if they came back. It's all fine and dandy to run 100 m in <10 seconds when you're wearing shoes and just barely enough to not get arrested, but doing it with armor on...now that's athleticism.

Chariot racing, though, the animal rights crowd might have things to say about. From what I've read, it's a cross between NASCAR and roller derby. With horses. I'm not sure a modern audience could stomach it in an ancient style.