2012 Olympics (spoilers for tape-delayed events)

[Impenitent]

Hal, I admire your passion .

[halplm]

Heh, thanks . I know I'm obsessing, but it's just so baffling that they would be as messed up as they are.

I've now come full circle and think this (below) is the correct analysis. I believe the only way gymnastics can come out of this without some major PR problems is to give Aly a bronze as well.

Ok, I'm officially back on the "stupidest possible way to break a tie" bandwagon for the gymnastics.

Here's what happened in case you were wondering... Aly Raisman and Aliya Mustafina both finished the competition with a score of 59.566 which was the third best score.

Because they apparently don't like ties for medals, a tie-breaking rule came into effect that gave Mustafina the Bronze, and left Raisman off the podium.

Here's how the rule works: Drop each of the gymnasts lowest score of the four apparatus and then compare them again.

Mustafina fell off the Balance Beam, so she dropped a 13.633

Raisman had a poor performance on the Beam as well, so dropped a 14.200

This gave Mustafina an advantage over Raisman of 45.933 to 45.366... giving her the Bronze.

But that makes no sense. AT ALL. For an all around competition, the better ALL AROUND gymnast, Raisman, lost, because Mustafina did WORSE on one event.

To reward one athlete over another for doing worse seems pretty backwards. Raisman was better than Mustafina on 3 of the four apparatus... and deserves a Bronze Medal.

[yovargas]

If your original post was correct, it's pretty damn inexcusable. Flipping a coin would be better than that. And giving both bronze would be best.

[Elentári]

Here's how the rule works: Drop each of the gymnasts lowest score of the four apparatus and then compare them again.

Mustafina fell off the Balance Beam, so she dropped a 13.633

Raisman had a poor performance on the Beam as well, so dropped a 14.200

This gave Mustafina an advantage over Raisman of 45.933 to 45.366... giving her the Bronze.
But that makes no sense. AT ALL. For an all around competition, the better ALL AROUND gymnast, Raisman, lost, because Mustafina did WORSE on one event.

To reward one athlete over another for doing worse seems pretty backwards. Raisman was better than Mustafina on 3 of the four apparatus... and deserves a Bronze Medal.

Hang on, just so I understand this properly...both gymnasts dropped their worst scores, right? Which gave Mustafina a higher total over their 3 other events?

So although Raisman did better than Mustafina on the beam, she must surely have done worse at a different event?

Or am I missing something here????

[Elentári]

Meanwhile, in other news...so thrilled for Katherine Grainger who has finally claimed Gold in the women's double sculls with partner Anna Watkins - after having to settle for Silver in the 3 previous Olympics!

Equally astonishing is that Jessica Ennis has run a heptathlon record 12.54 seconds in the 100m hurdles, equalling US hurdler Dawn Harper's winning time in the individual event at the 2008 Beijing Olympics.

[halplm]

Here's how the rule works: Drop each of the gymnasts lowest score of the four apparatus and then compare them again.

Mustafina fell off the Balance Beam, so she dropped a 13.633

Raisman had a poor performance on the Beam as well, so dropped a 14.200

This gave Mustafina an advantage over Raisman of 45.933 to 45.366... giving her the Bronze.
But that makes no sense. AT ALL. For an all around competition, the better ALL AROUND gymnast, Raisman, lost, because Mustafina did WORSE on one event.

To reward one athlete over another for doing worse seems pretty backwards. Raisman was better than Mustafina on 3 of the four apparatus... and deserves a Bronze Medal.

Hang on, just so I understand this properly...both gymnasts dropped their worst scores, right? Which gave Mustafina a higher total over their 3 other events?

So although Raisman did better than Mustafina on the beam, she must surely have done worse at a different event?

Or am I missing something here????

Raisman had a better score on Vault, Beam, and Floor.

Mustafina was better on Bars.

By both throwing out Beam, Raisman loses ground.

The rule is beyond stupid. The way it is written, it literally means whoever has the worst score of the day wins the tiebreak.

[Elentári]

Okay, I get it now...so Mustafina's margin over Raisman on Bars was greater than Raisman's over her on Beam, plus it cancelled out Raisman's margins over her on vault and floor as well...

Hmm...so since their overall totals were the same despite that, I agree t would have been fairer if they had shared Bronze.

[halplm]

The way they score gymnastics, there really isn't a good way to decide a tie-breaker in the all-around. They really should share medals.

In the event finals, where ties are much more likely, I can understand breaking ties, but for the all-around, it just looks bad to have tiebreaks that make no sense.

[nerdanel]

And even in the event finals, I really don't understand why it's the end of the world if they give, for instance, two golds and a bronze. But if they must tie-break on an event final, I'd rather they made the two women in question do a second routine, and award the medals based on that (which would reward consistency over one outlier excellent performance.)

We do that in swimming if people tie for a dispositive place. For instance, in the 100 BR semis, two women tied for eighth place, so they were asked to stay until the end of the evening session and have a swimoff for the final spot in the finals. On rematch, it became clear that one was significantly faster than the other; the woman who advanced into the finals won the swimoff by more than a second. While I'm sure it was frustrating and taxing for them to need an additional swim, it seemed like the fairest way to resolve the matter of "two swimmers, one available lane." I don't think a redo is feasible or necessary for the gymnastics all-around, but it's definitely feasible for a very short event final.

[ToshoftheWuffingas]

It's for each sport to decide its own rules. If it ends up dumb, I expect the competitors and their coaches will push to amend them.

[nerdanel]

Oh, for sure. But the Olympics brings the welcome addition of an inexperienced peanut gallery which thinks it knows how to solve all the problems of each sport. As a proud member of said gallery, I am happy to fix all of FIG's (and FINA's) problems for them...on the Internetz.

[halplm]

It doesn't take experience to do the math and recognize the idiocy of a tiebreak.

[Nin]

My ex-student finished 5th in the four men lightweight rowing...

[nerdanel]

Franklin wins gold in WR time in the 200 BA, with a time of 2:04.06. Absolutely incredible. The silver went to a Russian swimmer, Anastasia Zueva, with the American Elizabeth Beisel winning bronze. And Phelps takes the 100 fly in 51.21, with his extraordinary negative splitting technique in full force - going from seventh at the turn to first at the finish. Swimming shows how it's done, awarding two silver medals to the two men (Chad Le Clos of South Africa and Evgeny Korotyshkin of Russia), who tied for second in 51.44. What a day for the outgoing king and the incoming queen of USA Swimming!

More generally, I'm so pleased that the world records have been falling to swimmers wearing textile suits. It shows that the performances of the best in the world aren't only a function of the technology that Speedo develops.

Nin, that's really awesome!

hal - I was referring to my own suggestion of a rematch between gymnasts tied for a particular event medal when I mentioned inexperienced suggestions from the peanut gallery. I think any sane person can recognize that the tiebreaking procedure here is nonsensical.

[vison]

Yay, track and field! Love to watch them run.

Just like hosses.

[Primula Baggins]

Can't wait! They run purty. And there are lots of Oregonians to root for.

[nerdanel]

Wow, the US determinedly continues to blow the competition out of the water (as it were), with 15-year-old American Katie Ledecky winning the gold in the women's 800 meter freestyle; she is the youngest swimmer ever to win the event. The favorite, Rebecca Adlington of team GB, wins bronze, with Mirela Belmonte Garcia of Spain taking Silver. Yet another perfect day so far in the pool, but let's see how the men's 50 meter free goes.

[nerdanel]

...and again, the US goes 3 for 4 in the golds today. France's Florent Manadou won the 50M free gold in 21.34, while the US's Cullen Jones took silver in 21.54. The defending gold medalist, Cesar Cielo of Brazil, came third in 21.59. Well done, to all three of those guys!

Given that the gold medal comes with a $25,000 honorarium, I am considering becoming a professional (male?) 50 minute freestyler, in that that seems like reasonable compensation for 21-22 seconds of work. I could put in a couple of minutes of work at that rate and be set for the year. /flawless logic

[halplm]

Andy Murray!

[Elentári]

Andy Murray!

Oh yes!!! ...bring on Federer!

...France's Florent Manadou won the 50M free gold in 21.34,

Did you seew how long Manadou remained underwater off the dive in??!!