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by Sassafras
Sun May 02, 2010 2:02 am
Forum: The Shibboleth of Fëanor
Topic: The Sentience of the Ring
Replies: 25
Views: 20668

Faramond wrote: I resist this idea of evil lacking imagination because I think it underestimates what evil people are capable of seeing and understanding. Eh, I'm starting to be sorry I ever mentioned a focus on lack of imagination as a necessary component of evil. You guys appear to be concentrati...
by Sassafras
Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:14 am
Forum: The Shibboleth of Fëanor
Topic: The Sentience of the Ring
Replies: 25
Views: 20668

Let me start by saying that I have really missed these sorts of conversations with you. Voronwë wrote: I don't believe that Sauron was, as you say, so short-sighted as to not be able to imagine defeat. On the contrary, as Aragorn says, "He is not so mighty yet that he is above fear; nay, doubt ...
by Sassafras
Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:40 pm
Forum: The Shibboleth of Fëanor
Topic: The Sentience of the Ring
Replies: 25
Views: 20668

Axordil wrote: Precisely so--once it is in the Ring. To magnify it, to use it as a means of binding the other Rings, he weakened himself by losing it...but left an indelible impression. The Ring, as (im)pure Will, has no guiding mind beyond what its master's own corrupt nature provided in forging i...
by Sassafras
Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:20 am
Forum: The Shibboleth of Fëanor
Topic: The Sentience of the Ring
Replies: 25
Views: 20668

Well, that went over like a lead balloon, didn't it? :D Wampus wrote: , As many times as I have read LOTR (more than 50), and as much thought as I have given it (much), it has never occured to me to try to imagine the tale from the Ring's point of view. Right you are. I did read the book from the Ri...
by Sassafras
Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:58 pm
Forum: The Shibboleth of Fëanor
Topic: The Sentience of the Ring
Replies: 25
Views: 20668

The Sentience of the Ring

This particular subject has fascinated me for years, literally years. A month or so ago, Faramond and Griff came to visit me :) and in the middle of a casual discussion of our ideas about the Ring, Faramond let slip a chance remark which set me thinking in new directions and precipitated this post. ...
by Sassafras
Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:10 pm
Forum: The Shibboleth of Fëanor
Topic: The Humanity Of Sam
Replies: 198
Views: 112339

vison wrote: The thing is, the reason I back out, is, I find myself (inevitably) wondering what on earth Sauron and the Mouth of Sauron and the Orcs and Saruman and all the rest were going to do with Middle Earth once they had it. Don't feel like the Lone Ranger, vison, you're not the only one who ...
by Sassafras
Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:56 am
Forum: The Shibboleth of Fëanor
Topic: The Humanity Of Sam
Replies: 198
Views: 112339

Jnyusa wrote: But I have a lot of vague ideas about that relationship that I haven't fully articulated to myself, so it will have to wait until I have a little more time.   I still think it's a knotty question and one worth pursuing although I'm not at all sure that there is a resolution. :) It's i...
by Sassafras
Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:22 am
Forum: The Shibboleth of Fëanor
Topic: The Humanity Of Sam
Replies: 198
Views: 112339

But that's the constant danger with throwing the text over the fence to the readers and abandoning it. The dynamic shifts mightily upon publication, I believe, but not entirely--else why would we even bother with asking an author about their works after the fact? Laziness? :D We (not you, not me, n...
by Sassafras
Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:23 am
Forum: The Shibboleth of Fëanor
Topic: The Humanity Of Sam
Replies: 198
Views: 112339

In which the attempt is made to respond to three, no, four! posts. :D Help. Post One: Jnyusa. Sass wrote: And while I will agree with the indisputable fact that the author best knows his own work, given what can (occasionally) be perceived as the torturous effort to make all of the ducks line up in ...
by Sassafras
Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:36 pm
Forum: The Shibboleth of Fëanor
Topic: The Humanity Of Sam
Replies: 198
Views: 112339

Right. Athrabeth's post just made mine irrelevant. But that's all right because the questions that she raises are of far more importance than the silly argument I was about to flog to death. This: Ath wrote: Does it mean the "rehabilitation" of Gollum, or does it mean the saving of his sou...
by Sassafras
Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:35 pm
Forum: The Shibboleth of Fëanor
Topic: The Humanity Of Sam
Replies: 198
Views: 112339

Responding to Ax's comments, I agree that Gollum is not "practically redeemable". More to the point, is redemption is not really possible within the logic of the story; it would, of course, be a different story if he were to be redeemed. It is his having the potential -- no matter how sma...
by Sassafras
Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:02 am
Forum: The Shibboleth of Fëanor
Topic: The Humanity Of Sam
Replies: 198
Views: 112339

Before I attempt a refutation of Faramond's claim that redemption is possible for Gollum, I must mention the extraordinarily radical take Jn. has on Aragorn/Arwen. :shock: Stood me on my head, it did! and I must think. Think very, very hard before I dare say anything about it. It might take me a whi...
by Sassafras
Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:21 am
Forum: The Shibboleth of Fëanor
Topic: The Humanity Of Sam
Replies: 198
Views: 112339

I hope I haven't rushed into a reply just because my immediate reaction was so visceral. Ah me. Actually, Faramond, I'm the one who said that bearing the Ring precipitated an empathy to Sam. Twice. In two separate posts. I quote myself: On page 3, I said: Well, he wouldn't understand the dynamic bet...
by Sassafras
Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:33 pm
Forum: The Shibboleth of Fëanor
Topic: The Humanity Of Sam
Replies: 198
Views: 112339

Those are the Elves of The Silmarillion (and even more, of the Lost Tales , but that, perhaps, should be the subject of another thread). If it pleases you, Sir, and If I may pull rank as thread-starter, I prefer not. :) There have been several brief osgilliations thus far and each time we organical...
by Sassafras
Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:30 am
Forum: The Shibboleth of Fëanor
Topic: The Humanity Of Sam
Replies: 198
Views: 112339

Hoom. I have been trying to respond to all of you for the entire week, only <whine> it has been an insane few days what with scans of my brain, bones and every other part unmentionable, plus infusions and office visits and blood draws and .... and .... :x Meanwhile: Athrabeth wrote: But what if ther...
by Sassafras
Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:11 pm
Forum: The Shibboleth of Fëanor
Topic: The Humanity Of Sam
Replies: 198
Views: 112339

Athrabeth! , :love: Your post may take a detour to Osgiliath, but what a detour it is. And there are marvels and wonders along the way that sadly, I have no time to examine right this very instant. < I cannot stop because my disease calls and so I must rush of to a Nuclear Imaging Facility and subj...
by Sassafras
Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:34 am
Forum: The Shibboleth of Fëanor
Topic: The Humanity Of Sam
Replies: 198
Views: 112339

It was worth the wait, Jn. :hug: I am so glad to see you! Sadly it's the end of the day .... which means I'm exhausted again. :( However, here you are, so I can find the energy to say a little, though I will not promise to make a whole lot of sense. That is the other thing that strikes me about Sam,...
by Sassafras
Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:35 am
Forum: The Shibboleth of Fëanor
Topic: The Humanity Of Sam
Replies: 198
Views: 112339

This thread is moving so fast. :shock: How can I tell each and every one of you (even those who disagree -- maybe especially those who disagree :P ) how marvelous, how satisfying it is, and how glad I am that you have agreed to take this journey with me. Or maybe I am giving myself airs and it ( the...
by Sassafras
Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:57 pm
Forum: The Shibboleth of Fëanor
Topic: The Humanity Of Sam
Replies: 198
Views: 112339

One thing about Sam that fascinates me, and which, I think, bears on the discussion, is that of the major characters in LOTR, the hand of destiny seems to press the lightest on him. The Ring was "meant" to go to Bilbo, and to Frodo, but one suspects, not to Sam. We also get a better look ...
by Sassafras
Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:57 pm
Forum: The Shibboleth of Fëanor
Topic: The Humanity Of Sam
Replies: 198
Views: 112339

Phooey! Athrabeth got here first. :D Voronwë said: his wilful refusal to see things from any point of view other than his own limited experience, I was about to register a strenuous objection to willful . If you said instead that he was (at that point in the journey) unable to step outside of his ow...