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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:50 pm 
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For one brief shining moment it looked like the war in Syria was coming to a close. Assad had confined the rebels to one town, had cut the town into three parts, was driving them out of the town, and on the way to being the ruler of all of Syria once again. ISIS was no longer a power in Syria.

This followed years of the US making the situation worse. Under Obama the US went around looking for the rebel group that wanted a secular liberal democracy, and each time it was thought that one was found it turned out to be yet another religious radical. Still the US was backing those groups while simultaneously opposing those groups. Russia and Turkey had different priorities, so Turkey went after groups that were a specific problem to Turkey and left the rest alone while Russia unequivocally backed Assad.

And Assad was finally on the verge of victory ... at which point someone attacked someone with chemicals. Syria and Russia say it was the rebels. The US says it was Assad. The same people who told you "Saddam has WMDs" and "Iraqis are killing Kuwati babies" and "a ship was attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin" told you that Assad gassed civilians and rebels. Never mind there is no tactical advantage in doing so. Assad may be very bad, but he knows how the international community responds to gas attacks.

As a result first the US threatened to bomb Syria to punish Syria for bombing Syria. Russia said missiles would be shot down if they tried. Trump boasted that our smart missiles would get through anyway. Bombs away, it appears a majority were shot down but enough went through to kill Syrian civilians for the crime of being Syrian civilians.

These wars are not meant to be won, as Orwell would put it.

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-- Samuel Adams


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:05 pm 
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not something I would recommend
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So the question is.... what is it good for? Who is it that thinks they will benefit from our continued interference in this giant mess?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:18 pm 
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Meanwhile...
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Obligatory Pratchett quote.
Quote:
War, Nobby. Huh! What is it good for?" he said.
"Dunno, Sarge. Freeing slaves, maybe?"
"Absol—well, okay."
"Defending yourself against a totalitarian aggressor?"
"All right, I'll grant you that, but—"
"Saving civilization from a horde of—"
"It doesn't do any good in the long run is what I'm saying, Nobby, if you'd listen for five seconds together," said Fred Colon sharply.
"Yeah, but in the long run, what does, Sarge?
Terry Pratchett, Thud!


But if you mean, what is the good of firing rockets at Damascus, I suspect that the President thinks it will be good for distracting American voters from multiple criminal investigations directed at him and his organization.

The official line is that the bombing helped destroy Assad's ability to manufacture chemical weapons, and as such it was supported by our European allies and several prominent Democrats in Congress. The skeptical line is that the president has given enough warning to the Russians that Assad had the time to vacate the most important components. Whether that is true, I do not know.

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“It may help to understand human affairs to be clear that most of the great triumphs and tragedies of history are caused, not by people being fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, but by people being fundamentally people.”

- Terry Pratchett & Neil Gaiman, Good Omens


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:15 am 
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Feeling grateful
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Posts: 34058
Come, you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build the big bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain

You fasten the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins

How much do I know?
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good?
Will it buy you forgiveness?
Do you think that it could?
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand o'er your grave
'Till I'm sure that you're dead





Sent from my LG G6 using Tapatalk

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:44 am 
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The Neocon

Oh well I'm the type of guy who will never settle down
Where there's countries to attack you know that I'm around
I shoot 'em and I bomb 'em 'cause to me they're all the same
I occupy and drone 'em and don't even know their name
They call me a neocon, yeah a neocon
Troops roam around around around

Oh well there's Syria on my left and Iraq on my right
And Iran is the country that I'll attack tonight
On election day when the parties switch
I play for both sides there isn't any hitch
Cause I'm the neocon yeah the neocon
Troops roam around around around

Oh well troops roam from land to land
They go and I don't care
If there's oil under that sand
You know the troops will soon have a reason to go there

I'm the type of guy that likes to roam around
I'm never in one place my policies are unsound
I've never worn a uniform or carried a gun, yeah
It's the little people who can have all the fun
Yeah I'm the neocon, yeah the neocon
Troops roam around around around, let's go

Oh yeah I'm the type of guy that likes to roam around
I'm never in one place my policies are unsound
I've never worn a uniform or carried a gun, yeah
It's the little people who can have all the fun
'Cause I'm a neocon, yeah a neocon
Troops roam around around around around around
'Cause I'm a neocon, yeah a neocon
Troops roam around around around around around

_________________
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
-- Samuel Adams


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:35 pm 
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Living in hope
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Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
Those Pearl Jam lyrics are really powerful, Voronwë.

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“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:37 pm 
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Posts: 34058
It's actually Bob Dylan.

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'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:50 pm 
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Location: Sailing the luminiferous aether
Google lied! They must have covered it.

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“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:57 pm 
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Yup. So have many others (Here is a partial list: https://secondhandsongs.com/work/4558/versions)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:28 am 
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I do find it fascinating that every time it looks like the war in Syria will end, Assad seems to do something that would cause the United States to stay.

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"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
-- Samuel Adams


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