Desolation of Smaug reviews

[Smaug's voice]

A different, and even more positive (9 out of 10, versus 8.5) review from ComingSoon.net:

http://www.comingsoon.net/news/reviewsn ... ?id=112204

There you have it. Confirmation of the butterflies. The writer mentions it.

[Dave_LF]

More importantly, the dwarves are given far more personality and identity, setting them apart from each other rather than just being a group of little men with funny names and facial hair.

That's interesting since several other reviewers said the exact opposite.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I noted that too. From other sources, it seems like Kili is the only one who is given more personality and identify, and maybe that was what he was referring to. Though it doesn't seem like.

There you have it. Confirmation of the butterflies. The writer mentions it.

Funnily enough, as part of his one minor quibble. Still glad to see it confirmed.

[SirDennis]

Negative review from Slant Magazine:

http://www.slantmagazine.com/film/revie ... n-of-smaug

Was coming to post this. The following captures what came to mind while I was watching TTT last night:

[DoS] forgets these adventures' magic was never conjured by bells and whistles.

There were plenty of bells and whistles (CGI and spectacle) in LOTR trilogy, but it was a combination of practical effects and heart (admittedly harder to pin down) that made the first 3 films magical.

When contemplating reports of even more CGI in DoS than in AUJ, I was reminded (again) of Tolkien's line from Monsters and Critics:

“Where then resides the special virtue of Beowulf, if the common element (which belongs largely to the language, and to a literary tradition) is deducted? It resides, one might guess, in the theme, and the spirit this has infused into the whole. For, in fact, if there were a real discrepancy between theme and style, that style would not be felt as beautiful but as incongruous or false.”

Reports of

Hidden text.

a Kili-Tauriel-Legolas love triangle

are disappointing;

Hidden text.

flipping the gender imbalance of the LOTR 3-way makes it no less contrived than a straight Kili/Tauriel romance

would have seemed.

Still, I'm looking forward to seeing this one for myself and remain cautiously optimistic.

ETA: The Slant story carried the Bilbo Butterfly image at least.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Hey Dennis! Yeah, I noticed that the Slant review had that picture, though the reviewer doesn't mention the scene. It would be odd to include it if wasn't in the film, though not impossible. Still, at this point I am reassured that it is there.

The reports that you mention are worrisome, I agree, but I'm glad to know about it beforehand so that I don't let it distract me too much. And who knows, maybe it won't be too bad.

[Passdagas the Brown]

Hey Dennis! Yeah, I noticed that the Slant review had that picture, though the reviewer doesn't mention the scene. It would be odd to include it if wasn't in the film, though not impossible. Still, at this point I am reassured that it is there.

The reports that you mention are worrisome, I agree, but I'm glad to know about it beforehand so that I don't let it distract me too much. And who knows, maybe it won't be too bad.

In one of the comment sections on the TORN homepage, MrCere confirms that the butterfly scene is in.

[Elentári]

Dcole4 on TORN has put together his thoughts on what he feels are the real issues with the film:

Since posting my reactions a few days ago of DOS, I sat down with a few friends who also had the opportunity to the see the film. We all had similar thoughts on the film: it's a tad disappointing, especially in comparison with AUJ.

In my earlier thread the focus was on SFX and OOT action and the third act but I think there's a bigger underlying issue with DOS: there is no main arc to the story.

This is likely the result of taking a pre-existing third act of AUJ and a pre-existing first act of TABA and cobbling them together. What results is a film without cohesion. There are hints here and there of different themes but nothing is fully explored in the length of the film the way, say, Bilbo and Thorin's relationship was explored in AUJ.

(the below will likely make more sense for people who have seen the film...)

DOS really had the perfect opportunity after AUJ to explore the nobility of Thorin's quest. After the rousing camaraderie of AUJ it would have been interesting to see the stubbornness of Thorin's quest explored especially since the company are constantly warned against entering the mountain.

I think there existed an opportunity for the dwarves to start to question the merits of their mission. Especially in Laketown where these people were directly, and tragically, affected by the dragon's wrath. Among them are the remnants of a city that was obliterated. The merits would be tested further passing through Dale which is essentially a graveyard (something not even explored in DOS).

It was a chance to really build an emotional core around the idea of "Is it really worth it? Potentially waking this dragon that has hurt and affected the lives of so many people?" Made even more dramatic by Thorin's unwavering determinedness to retrieve the Arkenstone.

Instead the dwarves are left to mutter a line here and a line there and toss an axe when necessary. The only emotional heavy lifting in the film is really left for Thranduil, Tauriel and Kili. Bilbo doesn't really have an arc in this film. He's handy in a couple spots but at the end of the film it's not quite clear if he's learned anything. By building up the trepidation of the dwarves about this "noble" quest it would have really brought more power to Smaug's speech to Bilbo about Thorin using him. And it certainly would have given more power to Thorin's moment of requesting the Arkenstone (a scene featured in the trailer where he blocks the door).

DOS missed the opportunity to have an emotional core and the perfect opportunity to give the dwarves some dramatic meat. Instead they're pushed to the side, even our poor little hobbit doesn't have much to do than get the dwarves out of a tight spot time to time.

Further thoughts: Kili has an extended scene with Tauriel in the Woodland Realm's Dungeons, discussing his mother. I feel like this 2-3 minutes of screen time would have been better served developing the relationship between Kili and Fili. The way these films are going, are we supposed to believe the casual movie goer is going to feel for them in their big moment in TABA? This dungeon scene could have been reprised in Laketown by once again replacing Tauriel with Fili and giving Oin a chance to do what, you know, he's supposed to do... be a healer. Instead she steals both of their thunder.

I love what they did with Tauriel but I feel like her thread with Thranduil and Legolas was enough. The fact she had to step on the toes of the dwarves is a bit sloppy and inexcusable.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Expectations, expectations, expectations. What a terrible thing, expectations.

To be honest, I don't take what he says seriously. Anyone who goes out of the way to post at length about everything that they didn't like but "oh by the way I loved all the other things but I'm not going to talk about them" is not worth taking seriously in my book.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Rave review from MSN Movies:

http://movies.uk.msn.com/reviews/the-ho ... vie-review

And a mixed review from Geek Nation, that includes the single most discouraging paragraph that I have seen so far:

What’s missing from Desolation of Smaug is Bilbo. He’s completely sidelined in the film, despite his many moments of heroism (thanks to his inviso-ring, he’s constantly saving the dwarves). Freeman did an extraordinary job reverse engineering Ian Holm’s LOTR trilogy work in the first Hobbit, but in the sequel, he’s void of personality, agreeable, confident, and moving too quickly to dwell on his actions or place in the world.

I certainly hope that he is overstating the case.

http://geeknation.com/review-the-hobbit ... um=twitter

[Elentári]

And a mixed review from Geek Nation, that includes the single most discouraging paragraph that I have seen so far:

What’s missing from Desolation of Smaug is Bilbo. He’s completely sidelined in the film, despite his many moments of heroism (thanks to his inviso-ring, he’s constantly saving the dwarves). Freeman did an extraordinary job reverse engineering Ian Holm’s LOTR trilogy work in the first Hobbit, but in the sequel, he’s void of personality, agreeable, confident, and moving too quickly to dwell on his actions or place in the world.

I certainly hope that he is overstating the case.

http://geeknation.com/review-the-hobbit ... um=twitter

Since that is what Dcole4 pretty much alluded to in his comments that you dismissed, it may well be the case:

Bilbo doesn't really have an arc in this film. He's handy in a couple spots but at the end of the film it's not quite clear if he's learned anything...


...even our poor little hobbit doesn't have much to do than get the dwarves out of a tight spot time to time.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I don't care about Bilbo having an "arc". I care about his character. And other reviewers have had very positive things to say about Freeman's performance, and the emotional weight that he brings, so I am not so worried. Actually dcole's comment encourages me, because these filmmakers often get bogged down in "arcs" to the detriment of real characterization.

[Elentári]

Are the two entirely separate? I always think of "arc" as referring to character development or growth. The point I've seen made elsewhere is that since Bilbo's big moment was brought forward to the end of AUJ where he steps up to try and save Thorin, the spider sequence inevitably loses it's importance somewhat, and instead it seems we are treated to the sight of Bilbo succumbing to the Ring lust when he is terrified he's lost it.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I don't think they are the same thing, or at least I don't see them as the same thing. A character arc, as I understand it, implies moving the character from one place to another, psychicly speaking. Usually going from a negative place to a more positive place. I think a characterization can be interesting and satisfying without requiring such a journey. For instance, Aragorn in the text of LOTR has no arc, but I find him to be a fascinating and satisfying character. I don't dislike the characterization in the films, but I don't think it is superior because they gave him an arc.

It certainly is true that it will be different in the film than in the book with regard to Bilbo. And it definitely will be true that the Ring will play a bigger role than the simple devise that allows him to become invisible that it is in the text of The Hobbit. But that is not necessarily bad, or even wrong in terms of an adaptation that seeks to set the Hobbit story in the greater world. After all, Gandalf makes a point of noting that the fact that Bilbo told an untrue story about how he got the Ring was very out of character, and an indication that the Ring was already affecting him then. I don't mind having that be a part of his characterization, so long as it is done well. In Freeman's hands, I am looking forward to it, actually.

These are not the Hobbit films that I would have originally wanted to have (actually I would have left the "s" off altogether). But I am prepared to take them for what they are, and (hopefully) still enjoy them immensely on their own terms. I have seen and heard enough to convince me that this is still very possible, despite the negatively of people like dcole, who do not seem to be willing or able to given up their original expectations (or at least that is how I see it, though I recognize that may not be fair).

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Positive reviews from Digital Spy, and TORN staffer Sarumann, both of which reinforce the comments that I had made in my last post:

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/review ... rdict.html

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2013/12 ... for-years/

[Smaug's voice]

I have no doubt Freeman will be excellent again this time regardless of an arc, but the sidelining concerns me.
One of my main criticisms for AUJ was that Bilbo was completely COMPLETELY sidelined in the middle part. Right from the appearance of
Radagast till the White Council Bilbo practically remains "invisible". I so hope that is not the case here!

Off to read those reviewsV postef!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Here are two more:

http://www.heyuguys.co.uk/the-hobbit-th ... ug-review/

http://www.3news.co.nz/The-Hobbit-The-D ... fault.aspx

SV, I'm not worried about Bilbo being sidelined. I think he will have a strong role in the film. Just not the role that some expected. The more I read, and the more that I think about it, the more I like it.

Edit: Another one: http://www.thisisfakediy.co.uk/articles ... -of-smaug/

And another: http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/the-hob ... aug-review

[Voronwë the Faithful]

And a five star review from the Daily Star:

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/movies/35431 ... aug-3D-PG-

No, I'm not ignoring the negative reviews. I'm just not finding any more.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

A thoughtful, fairly positive but more mixed, review from Radio Times.

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2013-12- ... great-film

One thing that I've noted is that several reviewers have commented that WB has only screened the film to critics in 24 fps. Probably a smart move.

[Passdagas the Brown]

Definitely a smart move.

[Passdagas the Brown]

A thoughtful, fairly positive but more mixed, review from Radio Times.

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2013-12- ... great-film

One thing that I've noted is that several reviewers have commented that WB has only screened the film to critics in 24 fps. Probably a smart move.

IMO, there's very little that's positive about that review, beginning with:

Director Peter Jackson continues to drag out a great story to the point of being quite good with Martin Freeman getting nudged ever further into a supporting role, despite having the title role. And more’s the pity because this part fits him like a glove.