News from Bree and other random discussions
Re: News from Bree and other random discussions
Here's a cool and possibly relevant thread.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
- elengil
- Cat-egorical Herbitual Creativi-Tea
- Posts: 6248
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:45 pm
- Location: Between the Mountains and the Sea
Re: News from Bree and other random discussions
THAT IS SO COOL!!!
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
- RoseMorninStar
- Posts: 13117
- Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:07 am
- Location: North Shire
Re: News from Bree and other random discussions
Did you put up a link to that? I wasn't able to link (and I'm not on Twitter) but that is fascinating! Wikipedia article on Ring of Silvaianus and connection to Tolkien/The One Ring.
My heart is forever in the Shire.
Re: News from Bree and other random discussions
Rose, clicking on the tweet preview should take your to the tweet in browser. You don't have to use Twitter otherwise.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
- Dave_LF
- Wrong within normal parameters
- Posts: 6841
- Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:59 am
- Location: The other side of Michigan
Re: News from Bree and other random discussions
That is very cool, and I'm a bit annoyed that they didn't share Tolkien's verdict on the matter, but I also have to note: does Venus have a cat head? Because it looks like she has a cat head.
- elengil
- Cat-egorical Herbitual Creativi-Tea
- Posts: 6248
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:45 pm
- Location: Between the Mountains and the Sea
Re: News from Bree and other random discussions
At first I wondered why they made her hair so short. Then, after looking for a bit, I thought maybe a kind of feathered headdress? Now I'm leaning toward perhaps a crown or halo kind of thing. Never seen something quite like it in Roman imagery...
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
- Dave_LF
- Wrong within normal parameters
- Posts: 6841
- Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:59 am
- Location: The other side of Michigan
Re: News from Bree and other random discussions
Yeah, dismissing the "Venus was actually Kilrathi" theory for a moment, it looks like she might be wearing a feather-crested circlet with an mask that covers the eyes and nose?
Re: News from Bree and other random discussions
I REALLY want to see how that impression works out.
'You just said "your getting shorter": you've obviously been drinking too much ent-draught and not enough Prim's.' - Jude
- elengil
- Cat-egorical Herbitual Creativi-Tea
- Posts: 6248
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:45 pm
- Location: Between the Mountains and the Sea
Re: News from Bree and other random discussions
Bear in mind not every carver was necessarily good at faces, it could have just been a relatively cheap ring - i.e. the best the owner could afford but just not very well done.
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
Re: News from Bree and other random discussions
That's true, it's just that when a modern Western person hears Venus, the image that comes to mind is probably less Sonic the Hedgehog and more Playboy.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
- elengil
- Cat-egorical Herbitual Creativi-Tea
- Posts: 6248
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:45 pm
- Location: Between the Mountains and the Sea
Re: News from Bree and other random discussions
Agreed, but I think that really is a modern bias.
Like in the SCA we often forget about things like... some scribes weren't all that good at drawing, but that didn't mean they didn't do it anyway. So we get really self conscious about our illuminations when really there were some periods when the quality really suffered. Sadly, after plague you often lost some of the very skilled craftsman and got whoever was left alive.
Or in the case of the ring, it could have been that the owner got the cheap knock-off instead of a high-skilled, crafted item.
Like in the SCA we often forget about things like... some scribes weren't all that good at drawing, but that didn't mean they didn't do it anyway. So we get really self conscious about our illuminations when really there were some periods when the quality really suffered. Sadly, after plague you often lost some of the very skilled craftsman and got whoever was left alive.
Or in the case of the ring, it could have been that the owner got the cheap knock-off instead of a high-skilled, crafted item.
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
- RoseMorninStar
- Posts: 13117
- Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:07 am
- Location: North Shire
Re: News from Bree and other random discussions
A relatively modern bias. The truly ancient Venus figure is of a hugely pregnant or obese woman with no face with braided hair all the way around the head. I agree that the figure on the ring has a headdress. Not sure what is going on with the face. Perhaps it wasn't intended to represent a living person and therefore is intentionally stylized to more appropriately (in their eyes) represent a goddess.
My heart is forever in the Shire.
- elengil
- Cat-egorical Herbitual Creativi-Tea
- Posts: 6248
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:45 pm
- Location: Between the Mountains and the Sea
Re: News from Bree and other random discussions
But is that meant to actually be the Roman goddess Venus or is that the name we have modernly ascribed to such (presumed) goddess figurines found from that time? Do we have any actual evidence that goddess was actually called Venus by those who made those figures?RoseMorninStar wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:08 pm A relatively modern bias. The truly ancient Venus figure is of a hugely pregnant or obese woman with no face with braided hair all the way around the head. I agree that the figure on the ring has a headdress. Not sure what is going on with the face. Perhaps it wasn't intended to represent a living person and therefore is intentionally stylized to more appropriately (in their eyes) represent a goddess.
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
- RoseMorninStar
- Posts: 13117
- Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:07 am
- Location: North Shire
Re: News from Bree and other random discussions
Obviously metaphorical as it is unknown with what the name/intended function of the earliest figures are since they are ancient/paleolithic, so that is certainly a modern attribution. In spirit? It's impossible to say with certainty. The Roman Goddess is much, much later. Britannica has an interesting article on the history of Venus.elengil wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:26 pmBut is that meant to actually be the Roman goddess Venus or is that the name we have modernly ascribed to such (presumed) goddess figurines found from that time? Do we have any actual evidence that goddess was actually called Venus by those who made those figures?RoseMorninStar wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:08 pm A relatively modern bias. The truly ancient Venus figure is of a hugely pregnant or obese woman with no face with braided hair all the way around the head. I agree that the figure on the ring has a headdress. Not sure what is going on with the face. Perhaps it wasn't intended to represent a living person and therefore is intentionally stylized to more appropriately (in their eyes) represent a goddess.
My heart is forever in the Shire.
- elengil
- Cat-egorical Herbitual Creativi-Tea
- Posts: 6248
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:45 pm
- Location: Between the Mountains and the Sea
Re: News from Bree and other random discussions
The carving might also suffer from modern beauty bias, too. Perhaps certain features considered desirable or that had some kind of positive or important association were exaggerated.
The dumbest thing I've ever bought
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
was a 2020 planner.
"Does anyone ever think about Denethor, the guy driven to madness by staying up late into the night alone in the dark staring at a flickering device he believed revealed unvarnished truth about the outside word, but which in fact showed mostly manipulated media created by a hostile power committed to portraying nothing but bad news framed in the worst possible way in order to sap hope, courage, and the will to go on? Seems like he's someone we should think about." - Dave_LF
Re: News from Bree and other random discussions
Just for fun, here's a trivia question for you all: Which Tolkien character died four times?
(maybe more; I can think of four times off the top of my head)
(maybe more; I can think of four times off the top of my head)
Re: News from Bree and other random discussions
Actually died or appeared to die?
The Vinyamars on Stage! This time at Bag End
Re: News from Bree and other random discussions
Actually died. In that his or her body became non-functional and "gave up the ghost".
Re: News from Bree and other random discussions
I'm guessing Beren?
The Vinyamars on Stage! This time at Bag End
Re: News from Bree and other random discussions
That's not the one I had in mind...