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[solicitr]

[sauronsfinger]

One other thing to look at is the breakdown on boxoffice mojo of where the revenue for HURT LOCKER came from. Three out of every four dollars came from the USA and it basically died overseas. Successful films like AVATAR, LOTR, the POTTER and PIRATES series get at least half to two-thirds of their revenues from foreign ticket sales. Films about the Gulf War are even less popular overseas than they are at home here.

[vison]

Great scott! Why let facts get in the way?

When war was something that happened long ago and far away, war movies were more popular. More recent wars are on TV every night and the "romance" has worn off.

solictr, it may be, you know, that you and your points of view are going the way of the dinosaurs. No doubt you see that as horrid and regrettable, but times change and that's just the way it is.

[solicitr]

solictr, it may be, you know, that you and your points of view are going the way of the dinosaurs.

You mean, swept away by the resounding success of Obamanism? Or perhaps the 'settled science' of the warm-mongers?

I think you'll find that conservatism will still be around long after the current fads have gone the way of psychedelic microbuses.

[vison]

solictr, it may be, you know, that you and your points of view are going the way of the dinosaurs.

You mean, swept away by the resounding success of Obamanism? Or perhaps the 'settled science' of the warm-mongers?

I think you'll find that conservatism will still be around long after the current fads have gone the way of psychedelic microbuses.

Who said anything about Obama or global warming? Come on, bud, try to think outside the box.

Conservatism will indeed be around for some time. But that doesn't mean "your brand" of conservatism.

There is more than one way to skin a cat, if catskinning is what you're after.

I see conservatism as actually, you know, getting down to conserving something.

But this thread is not supposed to be about politics.

*will remove "bud" if found offensive*

*was merely attempting jocular friendliness*

[solicitr]

How about "will remove 'you and your points of view are going the way of the dinosaurs.' if foud offensive?" Or were you just being jocular?

I'm not sure to which of my Mesozoic points of view you were referring. Perhaps my Jurassic insistence that the US military are not the Waffen-SS?

[sauronsfinger]

This article congratulates Cameron for the box office #1 achievement but says AVATAR will fall far short of what TITANIC reaped at the Academy Awards.

http://www.vancouversun.com/entertainme ... story.html

the intro

It's official: Avatar is the highest-grossing movie ever, steaming past the worldwide box-office record of Titanic's $1.84 billion US on Monday, with tallies coming in at $1.86 billion. But the Oscar question remains: Can James Cameron's Avatar surpass his Titanic when the nominations are announced Feb. 2?

The answer is: No, Cameron won't be re-crowned king of that world.

In 1998, Titanic tied All About Eve's record with 14 nods, and ended up with 11 Academy Awards, equalling another record set by Ben-Hur (later joined by The Lord of the Rings: Return of the King).

But Avatar just doesn't have the nomination momentum to come close in 2010.

Cameron's Titanic picked up two acting nods for best actress (Kate Winslet) and supporting actress (Gloria Stuart), but the filmmaker's latest groundbreaking sci-fiadventure is expected to be shut out in the acting department.

I suspect the author is pretty much right. I also suspect having the two highest earning films of all time will be more than enough consolation if Cameron does not take home a second Best Film Oscar.

[yovargas]

He should be glad that a movie that doesn't deserve anything but tech awards is getting any Oscar consideration at all.

[vison]

How about "will remove 'you and your points of view are going the way of the dinosaurs.' if foud offensive?" Or were you just being jocular?

I'm not sure to which of my Mesozoic points of view you were referring. Perhaps my Jurassic insistence that the US military are not the Waffen-SS?

I said "maybe". This is a thread about a fantasy movie and surely mentioning another fantasy - even a personal one - is allowed?

And, no, I will not be drawn into a political discussion here. I can do that in lots of other places and I daresay you can, too.

[Elentári]

Okay...this is tenuous at best, but Peter Jackson was on "The Culture Show" on BBC2 last night, being interviewed about LOVELY BONES, and the discussion gravitated onto how technical developments finally allowed LotR to be filmed, etc. Do you think PJ's comments at the end of the interview were aimed at anyone in particular???

"It had arrived to a point where you could shut your eyes and imagine anything at all, and there was a relatively straightforward way of putting it on a screen. I think now what we're hopefully gonna get is people are gonna start to worry about the the stories again and the characters 'cause we've gotten through all the effects spectacle now, and anyone can do anything with effects now, so let's go back to the stories and characters and things that are important. I think people seem to have forgotten about that a little bit recently..."

For those who are able to access iPlayer, the interview with PJ starts at around 27 mins in:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00qg7m3

[Pearly Di]

Also saw it -- at last -- last night!

I enjoyed it. Certainly worth going to see, for the gorgeous visuals. Absolutely. What a beautiful, exquisite, luxuriant world Pandora is! -- and so real.

And the Na'avi are just lovely: sort of like Native Americans and Noldor!

The script was ... well, not as bad at Titanic' s, actually.

It's a James Cameron film. Which means it's not amazingly original or deeply profound or astounding storytelling. But it's a very elegant action film. Which Cameron does beautifully.

And another thing about him I really like: he always has strong female roles in his films. Ripley. Sarah Connor. Rose (the best character in Titanic .) And now Neyriti.

And the other thing that I like about Avatar. From now onwards, we will see alien species as beautiful and fascinating, not ugly and hostile.

In cinematic terms, at any rate.

Oh ... and there is a scene in that film which is perhaps the nearest thing we Tolkien geeks will ever get to seeing Morgoth and Ungoliant destroy the Two Trees.

Perhaps the most 'mythic' moment for me in a film which is a visual feast.

I don't think it should get Best Picture though. But good fun.

[Padme]

Okay...this is tenuous at best, but Peter Jackson was on "The Culture Show" on BBC2 last night, being interviewed about LOVELY BONES, and the discussion gravitated onto how technical developments finally allowed LotR to be filmed, etc. Do you think PJ's comments at the end of the interview were aimed at anyone in particular???

"It had arrived to a point where you could shut your eyes and imagine anything at all, and there was a relatively straightforward way of putting it on a screen. I think now what we're hopefully gonna get is people are gonna start to worry about the the stories again and the characters 'cause we've gotten through all the effects spectacle now, and anyone can do anything with effects now, so let's go back to the stories and characters and things that are important. I think people seem to have forgotten about that a little bit recently..."

For those who are able to access iPlayer, the interview with PJ starts at around 27 mins in:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00qg7m3

I agree

JRR Tolkien could write a good story. I'm not so sure PJ or Cameron could write such a story. But both have recieved more praise, money and awards than JRR Tolkien. Goes to show we like eye candy better than substance.

[yovargas]

Movies just naturally make more money then books so that's not a fair comparison. A better comparison would be: LOTR consistently ranking very high on people's most beloved books decades after its release. I think that's more praise then Cameron and possibly PJ can possibly ever expect.

[Primula Baggins]

Yes. The reach of a film, in terms of millions of people all experiencing it the same year, is always going to be bigger than the reach of a book.

On the other hand, lives get changed by books like LotR. Films, not so much. For me even the most powerful film has less impact than a good novel. I don't live with the film as long; I don't engage with it in the same way. Watching a popular film often seems like a passive experience to me: all judgments are made on the screen, all thoughts and insights are spelled out; it's like being offered a box of candies all tidy and complete.

Whereas a good absorbing novel is like going into the kitchen and cooking a fine meal with someone skilled. So much of a novel exists in what I think and imagine and feel and wonder about in reaction to what's on the page.

[vison]

JRR Tolkien could write a good story. I'm not so sure PJ or Cameron could write such a story. But both have recieved more praise, money and awards than JRR Tolkien. Goes to show we like eye candy better than substance.

There are many people in this world who think LOTR is a silly fantasy. Many of those people have even read the book. THEY think it's terrible that JRRT is so famous and so many of his books sold, when REAL books by real, thoughtful and philosophical writers languish unread, ending up by being chipped and turned into wallboard.

To be perfectly and bluntly honest, I do not myself regard LOTR as being "deep" or "important". It's just a really good story but I love the way it's told more than the tale itself. Maybe it's a "better" story than Avatar. I think it's a better story, anyway. But it's a matter of taste, is it not? War and Peace bored me silly both times I read it, and James Joyce seems like a joke on the literary world.

The other thing is, when PJ made the movies, as far as I'm concerned he filmed ONLY the story and nothing else. I thought then and I think now that the things about LOTR that I love, the high tone, the beautiful language, were left out. The movies, especially ROTK, were action fests jammed full of dumb SFX. IMHO.

[yovargas]

Watching a popular film often seems like a passive experience to me: all judgments are made on the screen, all thoughts and insights are spelled out; it's like being offered a box of candies all tidy and complete.

Whereas a good absorbing novel is like going into the kitchen and cooking a fine meal with someone skilled.

Also a bit of an unfair comparison, IMO. There are plenty of popular books where "all judgments are made on the screen, all thoughts and insights are spelled out; it's like being offered a box of candies all tidy and complete". Ya gotta compare good books to good movies, no?

To put it simplistically, for me, I'd say great movies have more "punch" while great books have more "depth". Whatever that means.

...action fests jammed full of dumb SFX...

No, they were action fests jammed full of smart SFX.

[Primula Baggins]

I guess I was comparing movies lots of people see to books lots of people read, and we were talking about books that endure.

Sure, this year's major bestsellers are probably as by-the-numbers as your typical blockbuster movie. And will be forgotten as quickly. But I think even the films that people still remember decades later (and it's not many) don't have the impact of books that last that long.

[solicitr]

All-time worldwide grosses adjusted for real inflation:

1. $3,429,000,000 Gone With the Wind
2. $2,476,600,000 Titanic
3. $2,108,000,000 Star Wars
4. $1,953,400,000 The Sound of Music (** no re-releases info)
5. $1,924,419,460 Avatar (as of 1/25/10
6. $1,880,700,000 Jaws (** no re-releases info)
7. $1,683,000,000 E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial
8. $1,669,000,000 The Exorcist
9. $1,430,000,000 Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (* incl. foreign estimate)
10. $1,368,400,000 Jurassic Park

GWTW in its first two domestic releases (1939-40 and 1941-42) had 52 million actual admissions, or 40% of the US population.

[yovargas]

Where'd you find that? Is there a longer list?

[solicitr]

Here:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0499549/boa ... #155176384

Note that RotK is #11