Hobbit film pitfalls

[Kezmoid]

I think it is more of an issue of how to show him be invisible for long stretches of important time.

That's exactly the issue I was wondering about (the technical aspect of it as axordil mentioned). I'm concerned that the "wraith-world", if done the same as the LotR films, will look so blurry that we won't be able to tell what's going on.


Anyway on to a new potential problem - the Trolls.

They've already been seen in the LotR films so it's safe to say they'll be included. Are they going to refer to each other as William, Bert and Tom? Or even talk at all? Will Peter Jackson attempt to get them in the exact pose we saw them in LotR once they turn to stone? Are we going to see 13 Dwarves tied up in sacks with their feet poking out (the Dwarves don't come across very well in that chapter at all)? Will I have anymore questions on this subject? Answers on a postcard!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Yeah, the Trolls are definitely an interesting conundrum. I'm guessing that we won't get their names, but they will talk in a comical cockney accent. And that PJ will find a way to get them into the pose we see them in LOTR. All 13 Dwarves tied up in sacs with their feet poking out? I hope so. What a hoot!

[Primula Baggins]

My postcard, front:



(Anything to class up the joint.)

My postcard, back:

Are they going to refer to each other as William, Bert and Tom? Or even talk at all?

My sense is, no. It is too inconsistent with how the trolls were shown in LotR, and the last thing PJ wants is to make those trolls less menacing.

Will Peter Jackson attempt to get them in the exact pose we saw them in LotR once they turn to stone?

I would bet a million bucks on this, if I had it. That's the kind of thing I suspect PJ will find irresistible (and LotR movie fans will enjoy seeing).

Are we going to see 13 Dwarves tied up in sacks with their feet poking out (the Dwarves don't come across very well in that chapter at all)?

I think we'll see the Dwarves helpless, but I suspect it will be in a frightening rather than a silly way.

Will I have anymore questions on this subject?

Reply hazy; ask again later.

[Inanna]

I love you guys.

[Kezmoid]

Very good Prim! Much better than Voronwë's hastily scribbled answers on the back of an envelope.

After consulting my book, I do have another question. Will there be a talking purse?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

No. (How's that for a hasty scribble?)

[Kezmoid]

No?!

I think a talking purse would be a great comic opportunity, especially if voiced by, say, Robin Williams or Jim Carrey.

[Frelga]

And will the purse have say, in pockerwork, "Not a nice person at all"*?

[Holbytla]

This (the trolls) is one of the scenes that I think will be exploited to the max. I think it would be pretty easy to explain the difference between types of trolls, and I think this type of scene would be an audience grabber for people unfamiliar with the story.

In fact I suspect this will be the first big scene with Bilbo as a potential hero.

eta: and they already had the set/figures not to mention this scene would tie in nicely with LOTR and make for a somewhat seamless transition. Ir at at least a transition to a known (movie wise) entity.

[Inanna]

And will the purse have say, in pockerwork, "Not a nice person at all"*?

Which one? @$%T%$^ which one?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

They've already been seen in the LotR films so it's safe to say they'll be included. Are they going to refer to each other as William, Bert and Tom? Or even talk at all?

Bilbo describes them as talking in the FOTR film, when he is telling the story to the children:

"There I was, at the mercy of three monstrous trolls! And they were all arguing amongst themselves about how they were going to cook us, whether it be turned on a spit or whether they should sit on us one by one and squash us into jelly. ... They spent so much time arguing the wither-tos and why-fors, that the sun’s first light cracked over the top of the trees - poof!"

So either they will have to contrast the film as "what really happened" versus Bilbo's "tall tale" or the Trolls will have to talk. Moreover, without the talking they'd have to come up with some completely different way to get out of the jam, since it is the Troll's arguing among themselves that Gandalf uses to turn to get the Sun to turn them into stone.

[Primula Baggins]

Once again, here I go, developing a perfectly good theory all shiny and pretty, and Voronwë comes in and crushes me by referring to the actual text. The movie script in this case, but all the same.

Back to my découpage.

[WampusCat]

This gave me an intriguing thought. What if the movie cut back and forth between the simple tales Bilbo is telling after his return and what really happened? You could have it both ways then: The somewhat silly elements, combined with the darker reality.

He spins yarns of bumbling, talking trolls instead of bringing to mind the terror of running into the real thing. He gives his first version of finding the Ring rather than the truth. He relates the elves of Rivendell as simple singers of the tra-la-lally sort when they were really discussing the potential return of the Dark Lord.

Bilbo turns a terrifying quest into an adventure fit for children's ears. But we see it through the lens of what happened later.

I think I'd like this treatment.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I've seen others make a similar suggestion. Skillfully done, it could work, but I would prefer a more straightforward approach, sticking as close to the book as possible. I'm actually probably more of a purist with The Hobbit than with the LOTR. Not because I care about the work more (although interestingly, I find myself liking The Hobbit more and more the older I get, which might be an interesting subject for discussion in the Shibboleth forum it and of itself), but because I find the book so much more cimematic. I recently read through it (one of the few days I've read it completely independent of LOTR, consciously not leading directly into reading LOTR right after) and I was constantly struck by the sense that much of the screenplay could be taken almost directly from the text. I never get that sense from most of LOTR.

[Frelga]

I do find the story-telling approach endearing, especially since there is a rumor that the whole movie will be framed as a story told to the young Frodo. But in a movie already complicated by the addition of the White Council storyline, I'm afraid it will be too much.

And will the purse have say, in pockerwork, "Not a nice person at all"*?

Which one? @$%T%$^ which one?

You mean, -ing which one?

ETA for non-Pratchett people - -ing is not short for anything. It's just a short syllable.

[Dave_LF]

Do you remember the commentary over The Voice of Saruman? The writers were trying to find a way to alter the function of the scene so it could serve as an introduction to the larger story of RotK, and elected to go with interrogation. Saruman had information about where Sauron was going to strike next, and Gandalf needed to get it (this didn't work so well, which is why they say they decided to cut it). I suspect we'll see a lot of this sort of thing in The Hobbit, and that it will make the story feel quite different even in places where the events are essentially the same. The episode with the trolls, for example, even if it plays out exactly as described in the book, will almost certainly be given some sort of new subtext to transform it from a standalone adventure into a link in the chain that develops the themes and/or drives the narrative forward. Maybe Bilbo will be made to look like a failure and will find himself in the doghouse with both the dwarves and Gandalf afterwards in order to set up a sharper contrast with his later leadership and heroics. Or maybe this will be the first time he shows that he possesses a bit of unexpected courage after all. There could also be plot development here. Maybe instead of the rather weak motivation of acquiring food, Bilbo will be after some vital information or treasure the trolls are known to possess, or maybe the dwarves will be captured first, changing the whole thing into a rescue mission. Whatever the case, I feel very confident that the scene will be given some new significance it doesn't have in the book. And I don't have a problem with that as long as it's done well; that's the sort of thing adaptation is made of.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Some time ago (over a year ago, I would say) Philippa Boyens was quoted as saying that they would not be making the films "episodic" in the way that the book is. That concerned me at the time, and it continues to concern me. But until we see just what it is that she meant, I'll have to withhold final judgment.

[yovargas]

A lot of film-FOTR was pretty episodic and it's part why I'm in the minority opinion that it was probably the weakest of the trilogy. Episodic is no good in a film.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I'm distrustful of absolute generalizations. The Hobbit is an episodic story, whether it is told in book form or film form. I'm doubtful that that element can somehow be removed in the film adaptation without damaging the integrity of the story. But we'll see.

[Inanna]

And will the purse have say, in pockerwork, "Not a nice person at all"*?

Which one? @$%T%$^ which one?

You mean, -ing which one?

ETA for non-Pratchett people - -ing is not short for anything. It's just a short syllable.

Ah, okay. Thanks.

And Frelga, I suspect the non-Pratchett people just ignore us at these times.