The Conspircacy Theory

Post by **River** » Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:14 pm

You'd better be because the timeline still isn't working.

Post by **Primula Baggins** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:22 am

Just interjecting that every child is now vaccinated against Hep B at birth, and older kids who missed that shot and its followups are required to complete the series to attend school.

And have to say that searching on PubMed stinks, and if I'm looking for a specific paper I usually just copy the entire citation for it into Google. About 70% of the time I get at least an abstract. (Copyeditors are now expected to provide any missing information from references, and boy do the authors seem to know it.)

River, I owe you a PM, but I'm in New Orleans waiting for pizza and then heading out to Bourbon Street. Tomorrow, I suspect.

ETA: I'm editing a big text on infectious diseases in dogs and cats, and it's amazing how often entirely new viruses emerge, becoming major health problems over the course of a single decade, or fading away into relative insignificance. And I don't think anyone is targeting the kittycats. This stuff happens, all on its own.

Post by **River** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:42 am

If you're into conspiracy theories you could claim the kittycats are being used for testing...and conveniently not account for the fact that pathogens that clobber both humans and cats are actually pretty rare.

Sometimes, **** just happens and that's all there is to it. HIV is one rather catastrophic example. I'm not sure why people can't accept that.

And now I want to go home and cuddle my cat.

Cool.

Post by **anthriel** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 4:17 pm

I hate it when I miss great opportunities to chat about epidemiology.

Post by **vison** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 4:21 pm

I read recently that some scientists think that Monkeypox is about to take the place of Smallpox. It has, apparently, become more virulent in recent years and while at this time you have to catch it from a monkey it may soon have mutated to the point where it will pass from human to human.

Post by **Sunsilver** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 4:28 pm

Well, Anthy, maybe you'd like to sink your geek teeth into this one!

http://dprogram.net/2009/12/31/video-co ... episode-5/

This is the episode I watched the other night, and it talks about plans to thin out the world population using vaccines as the vehicle.

Post by **Sunsilver** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 4:31 pm

Vison, the original smallpox vaccine came from cowpox. Although cowpox produced only very mild infections in humans, vaccinating with cowpox virus provided cross-immunity to smallpox.

So, yeah, I can believe the monkeypox virus could jump from monkeys to humans.

Fear of vaccines is nothing new. Here is a link to a cartoon that shows people sprouting cow parts after being given the cowpox vaccine by Edward Jenner:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/exhibition/small ... ation.html

Post by **anthriel** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:54 am

Sunsilver wrote:Well, Anthy, maybe you'd like to sink your geek teeth into this one!

http://dprogram.net/2009/12/31/video-co ... episode-5/

This is the episode I watched the other night, and it talks about plans to thin out the world population using vaccines as the vehicle.

I like having geek teeth.

And in a particularly holier-than-thou statement (made from the top of a soapbox marked "herd immunity for life!"), I will breezily note that a fairly decent way to "thin out the world population" would be to outlaw vaccinations.

It's a very favorite soapbox of mine.

Post by **WampusCat** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:01 am

Hear, hear!

Conspiracy theories really annoy me, particularly when they are targeted at something that saves lives.

Post by **vison** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:15 am

Oh, you sillies. Vaccination doesn't save lives. That's just propaganda!

It's sorta amazing and disheartening to read all the weird and ugly ideas that people can come up with, isn't it? I often wish I couldn't read, actually.

Post by **WampusCat** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:05 am

Then you'd just believe everything you saw on TV. Not a great improvement.

Post by **River** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:30 am

**bows to Anthy on her soapbox

Somewhere, in the cosmic scene of things, the conspiracy theorists will answer for every baby that died because parents were scared away from getting their children their shots.

Post by **Griffon64** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:15 pm

Wampus -

Post by **anthriel** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:22 pm

Especially when the baby who dies never had a chance to make their own immunity.

I had to call a positive test for Bordatella pertussis (currently enjoying a comeback primarily in California) on a three week old baby. The baby was, as I called, blue and unresponsive.

The nurse there told me that the child had been kept with family members, with her unvaccinated 6 to 10 year old cousins. The cousins had contracted whooping cough, and all survived, as older children generally do. That little baby never had a chance.

My soapbox is all shiny on top from frequent usage.

That little baby haunts me.

Post by **Dave_LF** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:45 pm

Frelga wrote:Sunny, as someone (Dave? TED?) said on TORC, you cannot convince an irrational person with rational arguments.

Not me, I don't think, but I may need to plagiarize it.

Post by **Dave_LF** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:49 pm

Anthriel wrote:And in a particularly holier-than-thou statement (made from the top of a soapbox marked "herd immunity for life!"), I will breezily note that a fairly decent way to "thin out the world population" would be to outlaw vaccinations.

Maybe the conspiracy is to make people think vaccines are a conspiracy.

Post by **Ghân-buri-Ghân** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:01 pm

Dave_LF wrote:
Anthriel wrote:And in a particularly holier-than-thou statement (made from the top of a soapbox marked "herd immunity for life!"), I will breezily note that a fairly decent way to "thin out the world population" would be to outlaw vaccinations.
Maybe the conspiracy is to make people think vaccines are a conspiracy.

I think the conspiracy theory grows from the fear from certain groups that vaccines targeted at those groups are deliberately contaminated, such as the claim that the Hepatitis B trial vaccines in 1978 were contaminated with HIV and Herpes -8 virus (the virus that causes Kaposi's sarcoma), and that the US gay population was deliberately infected. This certainly appears to be the rationale behind mass vaccination refusals in Africa, for fear that "Western elites" are introducing pathogens into the Black African populace.

Post by **Dave_LF** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:07 pm

FWIW, that would be a pretty silly way to go about reducing population, if one were so inclined. Anyone who's on the receiving end of international aid is not going to be using up a whole lot of resources.

Post by **Ghân-buri-Ghân** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:27 pm

Dave_LF wrote:FWIW, that would be a pretty silly way to go about reducing population, if one were so inclined. Anyone who's on the receiving end of international aid is not going to be using up a whole lot of resources.

Generally, fecundity is inversely proportional to wealth. Poor people have more children than rich people. Poor people are more likely to be in receipt of international aid. If the aim is to reduce populations selectively, and poor people are the main engines of international population growth, and furthermore, poor people can be subjected to mass vaccinations... perhaps it isn't, quite, such a silly scenario?

Post by **Dave_LF** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:53 pm

If all you're concerned about is numbers, sure. But when people talk about reducing population, they really mean reducing total resource consumption (usually). Reducing the raw number of people doesn't make much difference if those people consume hardly any resources. A savvy population reducer would target rich people.