For instance... California can't even put term limits on it's state level senators... and they might be the most corrupt government organization in the country... (that was hyperbole, btw )
Both the California State Senate and the Assembly (our two houses) have term limits and have had them for more than a decade.
In the latest independent assessment, California's governmental corruption ranked 27th, about average.
No such ranking actually exists, nor would it be possible.
Last edited by baby tuckoo on Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The US presidency was based around the powers of the 18th century British monarch, unfortunately without the vigour and independence of the 18th century British parliament.
No, the US President has never possessed the power of absolute and final veto enjoyed by George III and his predecessors. And it's probably fair to say that the Federal Government, including the President, didn't exercise much real power at all until Franklin Roosevelt (1933-45) rewrote the Constitution.
Soli, I wish Teddy were around for you to tell him that in 1912 or so, soon after taking on the Trusts, Spain, both Labor and the Bosses, dissolved Standard Oil, passed the Elkins Law, passed the Pure Food and Drug Act.
Oh yes . . . and cowed a belligerant Colombia.
I don't know what you mean by "real power," but I don't think that is fair to say about the Federal Government including the President.
No one with the power of a real king can be trusted to give it up if they abuse it. And if a king doesn't have any power, they're basically a celebrity living on the public dole. Neither appeals.
Really, the only thing that makes the US Presidency in its current form bearable is that they MUST leave after eight years, and can hypothetically be removed if they really do something wrong. Or are Democrats with a GOP majority Congress.
No one with the power of a real king can be trusted to give it up if they abuse it.
No, but they can be forced to abdicate by the public.
But there's no legal mechanism for this. An unprincipled monarch can and will hang on to power. See history.
If a U.S. president is impeached and convicted, he is removed from office. There is nothing he can do.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
I can't picture Bush doing anything he doesn't want to do until and unless the U.S. Marshals arrive.
Certainly none of my complaining has had the least impact, amazing as that may seem.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
Kings were removed or neutralised all through their period of maximum power in the Middle Ages: Stephen, John, Edward II, Richard II, Henry VI, Richard III. We went on to execute Charles I for waging war against his people, to force James II to abdicate, to have a substitute monarchy for George III and to force Edward VIII to go. A monarch could rarely act without considering his or her supporting power base.
My point is not that the US president has the same powers as our 18th Century monarchs but the office was created as its improved mirror. We have moved on in the meantime to a strong parliamentary system.
Do you mean to say that Bush wouldn't resign is full Congress were to issue a stiffly worded vote of no confidence?
No- this isn't a parliamentary system. The President is elected by the Electoral College, representing the several States, and does not depend on a legislative majority like a Prime Minister.
The Constitution does provide for the Congressional removal of the President: impeachment. But only two have ever been impeached, and neither was removed (Nixon in all likelihood would have been had he not resigned).
So I suppose that an impeachment by the House and a conviction by the Senate would constitute a very strongly-worded vote of no confidence.
Yeesh, no we don't. If we really want him (or her!) out, they can be impeached. Otherwise we just wait a couple years and vote someone we like better in. (Or vote people who'll limit his power into Congress.)
I wanna love somebody but I don't know how
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists
Impeachment just means bringing to trial. Conviction is required for removal. Nixon would have been convicted. Clinton wasn't convicted.
Bush won't even be impeached. He'll be convicted by history, but it will hardly affect him, as he doesn't read anything that might bum him out.
A king can certainly be removed by his power base, if he angers them enough. I was objecting to the idea that the public at large constitutes a power base for an absolute monarch. They are as irrelevant to the king as the U.S. public is to our particular president.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
)
