[Note: I have moved this discussion out of the "Paul Simon thread" as the moved posts do not relate to the subject of that thread. Ax, feel free to change the name of the thread. - VtF]
Jny--
I think it's pretty obvious that the L/M creative partnership, even when it became pretty much "in name only" in terms of songwriting, produced better material than either of their solo careers. Left to their own devices, Lennon got too introspective and bitter while McCartney got too formulaic and schmaltzy...not ALL the time, but the trend line isn't hard to see. Even if one or the other alone wrote the song, the act of hammering the song into a recorded single/album track alloyed the more extreme tendencies with those of the opposite Beatle.
Harrison, on the other hand, just slowly got better on his own between 1965 or so and the 70s, since he worked outside the L/M tension.
I would submit, BTW, that McCartney was by 1970 the best pure musician of anyone we’ve discussed in the thread, in terms of technique. Ten years of trying to make a bass carry the lead will do that. I would also submit that Rubber Soul and Revolver are both free of covers, and actually represent the creative core of the Beatles oeuvre, not Sgt. Pepper...and both of them have quite a few true collaborations.
The Beatles Threadology
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axordil
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The Beatles Threadology
Last edited by axordil on Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
I just checked out Rubber Soul from the library last week. Forever, I've wanted to get better acquainted with them to see if I could ever understand why the Beatles are so highly regarded. The album did little but annoy me and remind me why I will always think them ginourmously over-rated.
[/parade rain]
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I wanna love somebody but I don't know how
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists
I'll keep trying. At first I hated Sgt. Pepper but eventually it grew on me to be...fairly pleasant. Maybe the same thing will happen with my second attempt at Beatle-ness (I'm not holding my breadth 
).
eta:
).eta:
Does it have to be pop? Cuz I'll take S&G over the Beatles any ol' day.Now, if you listened to other pop music from 1965-66 and liked it better...
I wanna love somebody but I don't know how
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists
Rubber Soul and Revolver were good albums for their times, I agree. But vastly superior to everything else being produced at that time? No, I disagree. The songwriter collaborations at Motown and RCA were turning out a lot more hits with staying power. The Four Seasons, not to mention the Rolling Stones ... (I forget what label 4S were on). It's not highly fashionable to point to Neil Sedaka 
but he was a major songwriter of that period, working in a stable, and so was Neil Diamond. We're not aware of just how many hits they had because they weren't out performing their own material; the publicity was not pointed in their direction.
My own feeling is that Paul McCartney might be one of the most overrated musicians in history. But I really have to give it to him that he was willing expand into so many other types of music - soundtrack, symphony. Can you think of another rock musician whose music is so diversified? I can't ... but I don't follow rock careers very closely so there might be others who have attempted this and just don't make the news to the same extent.
The Stones on the other hand have been churning out the same thing for the past 150 years. Their concerts must be pure nostalgia trips by now.
Jn
but he was a major songwriter of that period, working in a stable, and so was Neil Diamond. We're not aware of just how many hits they had because they weren't out performing their own material; the publicity was not pointed in their direction. My own feeling is that Paul McCartney might be one of the most overrated musicians in history.
But I really have to give it to him that he was willing expand into so many other types of music - soundtrack, symphony. Can you think of another rock musician whose music is so diversified? I can't ... but I don't follow rock careers very closely so there might be others who have attempted this and just don't make the news to the same extent. The Stones on the other hand have been churning out the same thing for the past 150 years. Their concerts must be pure nostalgia trips by now.
Jn
A fool's paradise is a wise man's hell.
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axordil
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yovargas--
Yes, it has to be pop. Folk has an unfair advantage, in that you're not dancing and can thus listen to the lyrics.
Rubber Soul is an important album musically, and has some good songs on it, but it's not their best work. I mean, it's got John singing about killing his wife, and Ringo singing country music. But it's also the first cover-free Beatles album, the first one with any influence from India, the first one using electronic sound processing, and the first one where the drugs have started to kick in.
Revolver is better.
jny--
I agree that there were better songs in 65-66 (albeit none involving The Four Seasons
), but not better recordings of better albums. Only Pet Sounds comes close, and it drove Brian Wilson crazy.
Yes, it has to be pop. Folk has an unfair advantage, in that you're not dancing and can thus listen to the lyrics.
Rubber Soul is an important album musically, and has some good songs on it, but it's not their best work. I mean, it's got John singing about killing his wife, and Ringo singing country music. But it's also the first cover-free Beatles album, the first one with any influence from India, the first one using electronic sound processing, and the first one where the drugs have started to kick in.
Revolver is better.
jny--
I agree that there were better songs in 65-66 (albeit none involving The Four Seasons
), but not better recordings of better albums. Only Pet Sounds comes close, and it drove Brian Wilson crazy.
Last edited by axordil on Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Voronwë the Faithful
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Revolver is definitely my favorite Beatle album.
But Jn makes a very good point about Motown. That music is truly timeless.
And she also makes a good point about the Stones.
But Jn makes a very good point about Motown. That music is truly timeless.
And she also makes a good point about the Stones.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
When I got Rubber Soul in the library, I was really looking for Revolver because it has what are, to me, by far (by very very VERY far) the two best Beatles songs I know: "Eleanor Rigby" and "Tomorrow Never Knows". Those are the only Beatles songs I've heard that, to my ear, sound less like a band trying to write a catchy tune and more like a band crafting real artworks.Voronwë_the_Faithful wrote:Revolver is definitely my favorite Beatle album.
I wanna love somebody but I don't know how
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists
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axordil
- Pleasantly Twisted
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- Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:35 pm
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And speaking of the old Beatles' cartoon series (which they had nothing to do with except providing the songs around which the animated skits were written)...most of them are out on YouTube. Including the ones done for songs from Revolver 
and Strawberry Fields Forever .
I remember them from early childhood...but not the Cartoon Version of "Tomorrow Never Knows" .
We now return you to your Paul Simon thread in progress.
and Strawberry Fields Forever .I remember them from early childhood...but not the Cartoon Version of "Tomorrow Never Knows"
.We now return you to your Paul Simon thread in progress.
But I have to say one more thing about the Beatles!!
The McCartney divorce is not funny but this article is hilarious. Does not, however, say what T.O. thinks about it.
http://www.columbusdispatch.com/flipsid ... B8-02.html
The McCartney divorce is not funny but this article is hilarious. Does not, however, say what T.O. thinks about it.
http://www.columbusdispatch.com/flipsid ... B8-02.html
A fool's paradise is a wise man's hell.
Whistler wrote:I like Madonna.
Lady Madonna, children at your feet.
Wonder how you manage to make ends meet.
Who finds the money? When you pay the rent?
Did you think that money was heaven sent?
Friday night arrives without a suitcase.
Sunday morning creep in like a nun.
Monday's child has learned to tie his bootlace.
See how they run.
Lady Madonna, baby at your breast.
Wonder how you manage to feed the rest.
See how they run.
Lady Madonna, lying on the bed,
Listen to the music playing in your head.
Tuesday afternoon is never ending.
Wednesday morning papers didn't come.
Thursday night you stockings needed mending.
See how they run.
Lady Madonna, children at your feet.
Wonder how you manage to make ends meet.