Escaping the Echo Chamber

[River]

I was thinking the same, Frelga. Not everyone is cut out to be a scholar.

[elengil]

If only we valued mental labor and physical labor equally for the effort applied - and further, valued it to the degree that those most suited to both had equal opportunities.

[Frelga]

If only we valued mental labor and physical labor equally for the effort applied - and further, valued it to the degree that those most suited to both had equal opportunities.

I think that train has left the rails. There are very few trades left where purely manual work cannot be done better and easier by machines. They are not automated only because people are cheaper. Construction maybe the last one.

My husband's field, mechanical contractors, is one of the few where the union will take a kid out of high school to apprentice for, e.g., sheet metal installer. Experienced workers make excellent money, with benefits.

It's all very old fashioned. Most companies are still fairly small, owned by people who started in the field, everyone knows each other, and competition tends to be friendly. Construction is non-stop in the Bay Area, there is more work than workers, and the real enemy are non-union companies undercutting them.

But it's not going to last. Already there are machines that use CAD to plot and cut metal, which used to be a skilled job. Larger companies are starting to move in. And it's hard to get young people to take these jobs.

It's the brain, not brawn, world out there.

[yovargas]

Slightly tangentially, this discussion reminds me of the weird, inexplicable ways that stuff can develop gender biases. My company is in the apartment industry and manages hundreds of apartments across the country. My job is doing the software support for the program all those apartments use to run everything, so that's hundreds and hundreds of people working at apartments that reach out to me and I can tell you that, for some reason, the non-maintainance at apartments is overwhelmingly female. I'd say at the very least 80% female, though it's probably higher. I have absolutely no theories as to why this would be the case, and given that it's not like there are any cultural expectations around apartment complexes that I know of, it's hard for me to not think that somehow, whatever is drawing women into this industry or keeping men away is perhaps just a natural thing somehow. So weird.

[elengil]

for some reason, the non-maintainance at apartments is overwhelmingly female.

What do you mean by non-maintenance? What kind of work are they doing? Is it considered more secretarial maybe? Or perhaps it's the kind of job they can hold down while staying home and caring for children/elderly relatives? Maybe it offers more flexibility but less pay?

[yovargas]

Well, each apartment has to have a manager. Someone who is basically running the business and all that entails. Advertising and marketing, budgets, paying vendors, hiring and firing staff, dealing with all kinds of tenant issues, ect ect. Most will also have an assistant responsible for things like collecting rent payments, billing residents, entering any invoicing ect. And then there's also usually staff devoted to showing interested people the apartments and trying to tell them why it's a great place to live, so basically a salesperson for the apartment. These are basically the people you would see if you walk into the front office of any apartment. And for all of those roles, everywhere in the country, it's overwhelmingly female.

[Frelga]

Do they live in the apartment complex where they work? Is it, as elengil said, home-based work with flexible hours that allows the employee to also shoulder the caregiving responsibilities for children or the elderly ?

[yovargas]

A few do but definitely not the majority. And they have set office hours which they're supposed to be there for tenants, which often include weekends and even some holidays, so I don't imagine the schedule is more flexible than anywhere else

[elengil]

Strange.

Yeah, I don't know enough (or, really, anything) about that line of work to even formulate a better theory. I'm tapped out.

[yovargas]

The real answer is that humans don't make any sense and defy all explanations.

[elengil]

The real answer is that humans don't make any sense and defy all explanations.

While that is true for individuals, there are some logics we can apply to groups. Some. Not much, but...

[Inanna]

Yov, are you basing your result on the sample of managers who are contacting you, or have you actually seen data on the gender distribution in the managers/front office people?

Because if you are basing it only on the sample who's contacting you - that's a sample selection bias.

[yovargas]

I get contacted by pretty much everyone at the company at some point. We help out everybody so our sample size is nearly the entire sample.
[

[Inanna]

Do you have data?

[RoseMorninStar]

There must be some flexibility to the job as I wouldn't think showing apartments only happens M-F from 8-5. Possibly that there are no/few benefits?


My spouse is a lineman for an electric company. They used to take young people/apprentices without training, but now they even require specialty schooling.

[Frelga]

Merriam-Webster Twitter game is strong.

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[Inanna]

Do these idiots know what prejudice means?

[RoseMorninStar]

I dunno Inanna, some people don't seem to know what quid pro quo means.

Frelga

[yovargas]

"Look, I'm not racist, I just think my race is better at some things than your race."

Hm.

[Dave_LF]

I dunno Inanna, some people don't seem to know what quid pro quo means.

Anyone? Anyone?

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