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 Post subject: Re: Nobels 2012, etc.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:03 pm 
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Feeling grateful
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I heard that too. I'll believe it when I see it.

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 Post subject: Re: Nobels 2012, etc.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:28 pm 
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bioalchemist
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When's the literature prize going to be announced? Traditionally it's Thursday of Nobel Week but that didn't happen this year. Is there drama on the committee this year? :pancake:

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 Post subject: Re: Nobels 2012, etc.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:04 am 
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Living in hope
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She actually is, at 25:1 odds. Or was, last time I looked.

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“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King


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 Post subject: Re: Nobels 2012, etc.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:00 pm 
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WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111

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 Post subject: Re: Nobels 2012, etc.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:25 pm 
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Bob Dylan!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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 Post subject: Re: Nobels 2012, etc.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:28 pm 
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not something I would recommend
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I'm sorry but: :suspicious: :suspicious: :suspicious: :suspicious: :suspicious: :suspicious:

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 Post subject: Re: Nobels 2012, etc.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:34 pm 
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I'm sure a lot of people are reacting that way, yov. I think it is a brilliant choice, of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Nobels 2012, etc.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:37 pm 
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So do I. His writing is brilliant and has been far more influential worldwide than a lot of Nobel Literature winners'.

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“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King


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 Post subject: Re: Nobels 2012, etc.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:11 pm 
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Agreed.

Though I know that evenin’s empire has returned into sand
Vanished from my hand
Left me blindly here to stand but still not sleeping
My weariness amazes me, I’m branded on my feet
I have no one to meet
And the ancient empty street’s too dead for dreaming

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 Post subject: Re: Nobels 2012, etc.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:50 pm 
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OK, but over LeGuin?

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 Post subject: Re: Nobels 2012, etc.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:01 pm 
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of Vinyamar
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Different disciplines, but what makes a novelist more deserving than a poet? Or a poet more deserving than a songwriter?

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 Post subject: Re: Nobels 2012, etc.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:38 pm 
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Frelga wrote:
OK, but over LeGuin?


They need to fix that before she dies and they make another Gandhi-ian mistake.

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 Post subject: Re: Nobels 2012, etc.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:56 pm 
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Just Keep Singin'
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Oh, where have you been, my blue-eyed son?
And where have you been my darling young one?
I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
I've walked and I've crawled on six crooked highways
I've stepped in the middle of seven sad forests
I've been out in front of a dozen dead oceans
I've been ten thousand miles in the mouth of a graveyard
And it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard, and it's a hard
It's a hard rain's a-gonna fall.

Oh, what did you see, my blue eyed son?
And what did you see, my darling young one?
I saw a newborn baby with wild wolves all around it
I saw a highway of diamonds with nobody on it
I saw a black branch with blood that kept drippin'
I saw a room full of men with their hammers a-bleedin'
I saw a white ladder all covered with water
I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken
I saw guns and sharp swords in the hands of young children
And it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard, and it's a hard
It's a hard rain's a-gonna fall.

And what did you hear, my blue-eyed son?
And what did you hear, my darling young one?
I heard the sound of a thunder that roared out a warnin'
I heard the roar of a wave that could drown the whole world
I heard one hundred drummers whose hands were a-blazin'
I heard ten thousand whisperin' and nobody listenin'
I heard one person starve, I heard many people laughin'
Heard the song of a poet who died in the gutter
Heard the sound of a clown who cried in the alley
And it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard
And it's a hard rain's a-gonna fall.

Oh, what did you meet my blue-eyed son ?
Who did you meet, my darling young one?
I met a young child beside a dead pony
I met a white man who walked a black dog
I met a young woman whose body was burning
I met a young girl, she gave me a rainbow
I met one man who was wounded in love
I met another man who was wounded in hatred
And it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard
And it's a hard rain's a-gonna fall.

And what'll you do now, my blue-eyed son?
And what'll you do now my darling young one?
I'm a-goin' back out 'fore the rain starts a-fallin'
I'll walk to the depths of the deepest black forest
Where the people are a many and their hands are all empty
Where the pellets of poison are flooding their waters
Where the home in the valley meets the damp dirty prison
And the executioner's face is always well hidden
Where hunger is ugly, where souls are forgotten
Where black is the color, where none is the number
And I'll tell and speak it and think it and breathe it
And reflect from the mountain so all souls can see it
And I'll stand on the ocean until I start sinkin'
But I'll know my song well before I start singing
And it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard, and it's a hard
It's a hard rain's a-gonna fall.

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 Post subject: Re: Nobels 2012, etc.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:34 pm 
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That's a powerful one, Jewel.

Frelga and Inanna, I will be very surprised if Le Guin ever wins this—not because I think her work is unworthy, but because she's committed the great sin of carrying out most of her writing career within the realm of genre fiction. Ew. I mean. :er:

And it's not just that she writes outside ordinary everyday settings or well-known historical ones; that is forgivable as long as the writer firmly denies that her work is in fact fantasy or science fiction, despite meeting every criterion. But Le Guin has embraced the label proudly.

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“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King


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 Post subject: Re: Nobels 2012, etc.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:55 pm 
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Feeling grateful
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You walk into the room with your pencil in your hand
You see somebody naked and you say, "Who is that man?"
You try so hard but you don't understand
Just what you will say when you get home
Because something is happening here but you don't know what it is
Do you, Mr. Jones?

You raise up your head and you ask, "Is this where it is?"
And somebody points to you and says, "It's his"
And you say, "What's mine?" and somebody else says, "Well, what is?"
And you say, "Oh my God, am I here all alone?"
But something is happening and you don't know what it is
Do you, Mr. Jones?

You hand in your ticket and you go watch the geek
Who immediately walks up to you when he hears you speak
And says, "How does it feel to be such a freak?"
And you say, "Impossible!" as he hands you a bone
And something is happening here but you don't know what it is
Do you, Mr. Jones?

You have many contacts among the lumberjacks
To get you facts when someone attacks your imagination
But nobody has any respect, anyway they already expect you to all give a check
To tax-deductible charity organizations

Ah, you've been with the professors and they've all liked your looks
With great lawyers you have discussed lepers and crooks
You've been through all of F. Scott Fitzgerald's books
You're very well-read, it's well-known
But something is happening here and you don't know what it is
Do you, Mr. Jones?

Well, the sword swallower, he comes up to you and then he kneels
He crosses himself and then he clicks his high heels
And without further notice, he asks you how it feels
And he says, "Here is your throat back, thanks for the loan"
And you know something is happening but you don't know what it is
Do you, Mr. Jones?

Now, you see this one-eyed midget shouting the word "Now"
And you say, "For what reason?" and he says, "How"
And you say, "What does this mean?" and he screams back, "You're a cow!
Give me some milk or else go home"
And you know something's happening but you don't know what it is
Do you, Mr. Jones?

Well, you walk into the room like a camel, and then you frown
You put your eyes in your pocket and your nose on the ground
There ought to be a law against you comin' around
You should be made to wear earphones
'Cause something is happening and you don't know what it is
Do you, Mr. Jones?

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 Post subject: Re: Nobels 2012, etc.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:17 pm 
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bioalchemist
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Songs and poetry aren't so very different.

I was surprised. It's pretty awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: Nobels 2012, etc.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:01 am 
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I know Dylan means a lot to many people, and I respect that. It also seems to me that his poetry depends on the references from a particular time and place in history. To me, having grown up in a very different time and place, his text is opaque. LeGuin, by contrast, speaks to me despite also being the product of a particular culture. That universality, imo, should be an important component of the Nobel selection criteria.

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“It may help to understand human affairs to be clear that most of the great triumphs and tragedies of history are caused, not by people being fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, but by people being fundamentally people.”

- Terry Pratchett & Neil Gaiman, Good Omens


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 Post subject: Re: Nobels 2012, etc.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:40 am 
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She does have that gift. And she's been one of my favorite writers all my life—I've loved her books since I was fifteen, and I love them now, though in different ways (and some of them I wouldn't have been ready for at fifteen).

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“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King


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 Post subject: Re: Nobels 2012, etc.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:07 am 
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bioalchemist
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I'd've been happy to see LeGuin get the Nobel.

But I'm also a fan of Bob Dylan. I caught this on a local, commercial radio station my first week in Boulder, and that was when I knew that Boulder was going to work out for me:

'Twas in another lifetime, one of toil and blood
When blackness was a virtue the road was full of mud
I came in from the wilderness, a creature void of form
Come in, she said
I'll give ya shelter from the storm

Not a word was spoke between us, there was little risk involved
Everything up to that point had been left unresolved
Try imagining a place where it's always safe and warm
Come in, she said
I'll give ya shelter from the storm

Suddenly I turned around and she was standin' there
With silver bracelets on her wrists and flowers in her hair
She walked up to me so gracefully and took my crown of thorns
Come in, she said
I'll give ya shelter from the storm

Well, the deputy walks on hard nails and the preacher rides a mount
But nothing really matters much, it's doom alone that counts
And the one-eyed undertaker, he blows a futile horn
Come in, she said
I'll give ya shelter from the storm

I was burned out from exhaustion, buried in the hail
Poisoned in the bushes an' blown out on the trail
Hunted like a crocodile, ravaged in the corn
Come in, she said
I'll give ya shelter from the storm

Now there's a wall between us, somethin' there's been lost
I took too much for granted, I got my signals crossed
Just to think that it all began on an uneventful morn
Come in, she said
I'll give ya shelter from the storm

In a little hilltop village, they gambled for my clothes
I bargained for salvation and she gave me a lethal dose
I offered up my innocence I got repaid with scorn
Come in, she said
I'll give ya shelter from the storm

Well, I'm livin' in a foreign country but I'm bound to cross the line
Beauty walks a razor's edge, someday I'll make it mine
If I could only turn back the clock to when God and her were born
Come in, she said
I'll give ya shelter from the storm

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 Post subject: Re: Nobels 2012, etc.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:54 am 
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I hate to admit that I don't get it. :( On any level, literal, symbolic, or evocative. I'd say you had to be there, but River is younger than me.

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- Terry Pratchett & Neil Gaiman, Good Omens


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