The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
- Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
Here, let me raise your spirits, SV:
Hidden text.
One final thing. I really hope that the one thing that is causing the most angst over at the other place is true:Hidden text.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
- Dave_LF
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
None of the details particularly bother me, and some I find fairly encouraging (for the reasons V outlined above). But I am a bit concerned by his judgement that it's just not a great film. Still, it's one individual's opinion, and his first-viewing opinion at that (we all know how that goes).
This is, at heart, a story about Thorin's fall and redemption contrasted with Bilbo's hobbity sensibilities, and the poster does claim they did a good job with the first half of that. The rest is really just backdrop.
This is, at heart, a story about Thorin's fall and redemption contrasted with Bilbo's hobbity sensibilities, and the poster does claim they did a good job with the first half of that. The rest is really just backdrop.
Yes, the dramatic irony there is fantastic, especially if they don't say anything more about it (until FotR)!Hidden text.
Last edited by Dave_LF on Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
SV, since Connolly was reported recently
Hidden text.
(well, he could be referring to the book, but supposedly he has never read Tolkien!) then presumably that will be in the EE....Hidden text.
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
thanks to all for the spoilers and links to more..... I just read most of it and sounds like the film will not let us down as it sounds like there is tons there to like and revel in ... BUT ..... I dearly hope for thirty or forty minutes more added to the EE so these storylines are given a proper finish. I am in the unusual place of looking more forward to the EE than I am the actual release in a month.
I hope a lot of this is unwarranted.
I hope a lot of this is unwarranted.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
Wait a second. Is that reviewer implying that we do not see Thorin's funeral? I find that very hard to believe (and we know it was shot on an elaborate set). I hope it's in, as it has the potential to be very evocative.
IMO, the criticisms of this person do seem to suggest that there's an almost arbitrary attempt to make this film shorter than the others, and that this may have hurt it. I hope to be proven wrong, but this first review is by no means encouraging.
IMO, the criticisms of this person do seem to suggest that there's an almost arbitrary attempt to make this film shorter than the others, and that this may have hurt it. I hope to be proven wrong, but this first review is by no means encouraging.
- Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
I completely disagree that we "need to see Thorin's funeral" in the TE. We need to see Thorin's dying words to Bilbo in the TE, and his recognition that "If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world" (though I doubt they will phrase it exactly like that, which will cause more OTT angst). Anything else is superfluous, and probably would be better off in the EE. I'm perfectly fine with a tighter theatrical edition, so long as the essentials are covered. Of course, my essentials may not be the same as anyone else's.
But then, you are the one who thought that Theodred's funeral was the best part of the LOTR films, where as I think it is fine, but not very important.
But then, you are the one who thought that Theodred's funeral was the best part of the LOTR films, where as I think it is fine, but not very important.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
Frodo284 has posted a full description of the Dol Gudur sequence...
For all of those who asked, here is a detailed description of the scene in play - - - - Highlight the text below, but be warned of heavy spoilers!
Hidden text..
That's it!!!
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- Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
Without even looking, I can just imagine the angst. I on the other hand, am quite pleased.
ETA: In yet another example showing that I don't know what I am talking about, initial reactions mostly appear to be positive.
ETA: In yet another example showing that I don't know what I am talking about, initial reactions mostly appear to be positive.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
I'll have to see it for myself, but
Hidden text.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
Are we to believe that the Nine are weaker as well as Sauron, at this moment in time? I guess their strength would be linked to their Masters, no? That must be why Galadriel is able to dispatch them with a flick of her hand whilst Gandalf battled all night with them on Weathertop...
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- Dave_LF
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
Probably, but it also sounds like she was having a rough time of it until Elrond and Saruman showed up. Perhaps she was only able to "flick them away" after the big fight because they were already down to like 20 HP.
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
I would think so. From "The Siege of Gondor":Elentári wrote:Are we to believe that the Nine are weaker as well as Sauron, at this moment in time? I guess their strength would be linked to their Masters, no?
"The Nazgûl came again, and as their Dark Lord now grew and put forth his strength, so their voices, which uttered only his will and his malice, were filled with evil and horror."
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
Hidden text.
Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
Or from RotK?kzer_za wrote:Hidden text.
Gothmog: "The age of Men is over. The time of the Orc has come."
There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
~Diana Cortes
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- Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
I don't think that we can assume that that is anything approaching a direct quote, even though I am 99% confident that these spoilers are real and not trollish.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
It's not about what's necessary, IMO. It's about what has the potential to capture the essence of Tolkien. And the melancholy (and beauty) of a funeral inside a mountain kingdom sounds like it would meet that challenge better than huge moles, a goofy Dain, or Mario Bard on a cart. But I suppose we have different definitions of "superfluous," as you suggest.Voronwë the Faithful wrote:I completely disagree that we "need to see Thorin's funeral" in the TE. We need to see Thorin's dying words to Bilbo in the TE, and his recognition that "If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world" (though I doubt they will phrase it exactly like that, which will cause more OTT angst). Anything else is superfluous, and probably would be better off in the EE. I'm perfectly fine with a tighter theatrical edition, so long as the essentials are covered. Of course, my essentials may not be the same as anyone else's.
But then, you are the one who thought that Theodred's funeral was the best part of the LOTR films, where as I think it is fine, but not very important.
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
I think the Dol Guldur stuff sounds just fine. Not sure what about it would cause much hand-wringing.
I am deeply discouraged, though, by the perception that the film feels rushed, as most people's vision of a well-paced film is a rushed pace for me! It's especially discouraging to hear (and see) evidence of a lot of superfluous action being in the film, while then hearing that the funeral for the film's second-most important character has been cut. It's likely that this "tighter" cut sacrifices character and atmosphere for action, and I wish the calculus was more balanced. But I suppose waiting a year for the EE is not too much to ask...
Was really hoping for glowing reviews this time, even though that wasn't likely.
I know V will be pleased to see that I am in my usual pessimistic mode, but I really did want to believe for this last film! It's the last of ME we'll see on the big screen for a very long while.
I am deeply discouraged, though, by the perception that the film feels rushed, as most people's vision of a well-paced film is a rushed pace for me! It's especially discouraging to hear (and see) evidence of a lot of superfluous action being in the film, while then hearing that the funeral for the film's second-most important character has been cut. It's likely that this "tighter" cut sacrifices character and atmosphere for action, and I wish the calculus was more balanced. But I suppose waiting a year for the EE is not too much to ask...
Was really hoping for glowing reviews this time, even though that wasn't likely.
I know V will be pleased to see that I am in my usual pessimistic mode, but I really did want to believe for this last film! It's the last of ME we'll see on the big screen for a very long while.
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
There still might be glowing reviews. Certainly one person's mostly positive but not gushing opinion of an unfinished cut is not enough to go on. And while I'm sure there will be a lot of action, I'm still strongly anticipating a good amount of character and atmosphere with an emphasis on tense relationships. Indeed, I'm going to abandon my previous tactic of trying to lower your expectations and say that this time you should anticipate a good film. A good Jackson film, not a good PtB film, but one that ultimately you will be able to appreciate.
I honestly believe that!
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I honestly believe that!
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"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
Thanks! I actually am trying to take a more positive approach this time, but it's going to be hard to maintain that.
Has anyone asked this guy if the ravens are in, by the way? I'm willing to forgive some additions and omissions if they include them, talking or not.
Has anyone asked this guy if the ravens are in, by the way? I'm willing to forgive some additions and omissions if they include them, talking or not.
- Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies
I don't think anyone has asked that, and he seems to have disappeared.
Edited to add: on the one hand, it would be odd for them to be omitted altogether, given the previous references to them, on the other hand, for some reason I am doubtful.
Edited to add: on the one hand, it would be odd for them to be omitted altogether, given the previous references to them, on the other hand, for some reason I am doubtful.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."