The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

[Passdagas the Brown]

Finally, we get to see giant shrews and moles in battle. Thank you, Peter!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Maybe Saruman turns up late to clean up after everyone else has had a go!

On the same subject, I was just remembering Sylvester McCoy's comments on what he had filmed of the DG 'assault' back at Armageddon Expo last year, where he said that Saruman was directing the attack from a vantage point...I wonder if all that is still valid, or if it has been changed for a more "intimate" confrontation?

So far as I am aware, Christopher Lee never returned for additional filming, so I doubt it changed much from what they originally filmed. But I don't know how much I would trust Sylvester McCoy.

[Passdagas the Brown]

Maybe Saruman turns up late to clean up after everyone else has had a go!

On the same subject, I was just remembering Sylvester McCoy's comments on what he had filmed of the DG 'assault' back at Armageddon Expo last year, where he said that Saruman was directing the attack from a vantage point...I wonder if all that is still valid, or if it has been changed for a more "intimate" confrontation?

So far as I am aware, Christopher Lee never returned for additional filming, so I doubt it changed much from what they originally filmed. But I don't know how much I would trust Sylvester McCoy.

Ye of little faith. Peter Jackson can, and likely has, created a fully-realized Christopher Lee digital double that will be able to perform a number of things that were never filmed.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Why is it that you say things that I either completely agree with or completely roll my eyes at, with no in between.

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[Passdagas the Brown]

There's no mushy middle with me. I'm either right or completely right!

But you have to admit, there's very little that PJ won't do with digital doubles. I believe it was either Armitage or McKellen, when talking about Goblintown, who said that most of the chase sequence involved their digital double hopping around and doing things they never did (or could) do as actors. No reason why PJ won't have Saruman's digital double pull some zany tricks against Sauron.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Nor is there any reason why he shouldn't. Bring it on. It'll be better than Wizard Fu, I guarantee.

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[Passdagas the Brown]

I'd take Wizard Fu, with all its awkwardness, over digital doubles performing impossible physical feats, any day.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Saruman is not going to be doing silly Legolas-style impossible physical feats, even if they use a digital double for him. Anymore than Gandalf did when they used a digital double for him during the great scene with him and Sauron in DoS. Honestly, PtB, for a person as smart and discerning as you are, you say some silly things sometimes!

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[Passdagas the Brown]

V-man,

First of all, you are a master of the straw man (as I suppose many good lawyers are ). I never said Saruman would be doing silly "Legolas-style" impossible physical feats. Those are your words you are batting down, not mine.

Secondly, I think there's ample evidence to suggest (from the past two Hobbit films and LOTR) that Peter Jackson is capable of, and willing to, have characters do extraordinary things in their digital form. This includes Gandalf, who hopped around like a Mario character in Goblintown, and dropped from a great height to land on an eagle's back. Gandalf also fought in mid-air with a Balrog in FOTR, but that was mostly shot with McKellen, the actor, and it shows. It looks far more convincing than its equivalents in the Hobbit.

All I am saying, in this case, is that we are likely to see Saruman's digital double doing things that Christopher Lee never shot. They will not likely be Legolas-style, but I am almost certain that we'll see quite a bit of digital Saruman, and that it won't look that convincing. All the shots with digital doubles in AUJ and DOS looked very obviously artificial to me, and I don't think that will change.

And IMO, this is pretty reasonable speculation, given two films that have been chock full of of Peter Jackon's self-indulgent digitalia.

Will I enjoy this one, as I did DOS? Probably. But it still saddens me that Tolkien's works will not be translated into masterpieces of the silver screen for a long time to come. There are plenty of fun action films, with a little intelligence and depth, out there. I don't see what's so horrible about hoping for something more from adaptations of Tolkien. Aim-for-the-middle-Jackson was the wrong man for the job, IMO, no matter how much I like and respect him on a personal level.

[kzer_za]

Am I the only one who doesn't really have a problem with wizard-Fu? I mean, Tolkien tells you basically nothing about exactly how Gandalf was overpowered and captured. Some invention was necessary to show it on screen.

[Passdagas the Brown]

I didn't mind the Wizard-fu. It was rather visceral, and you could almost hear their old bones cracking on the hard stone. Most of the violence in the Hobbit films is disappointingly weightless and anodyne by comparison.

[Jude]

I also had no problem at all with the Wizard-fu.

[Inanna]

Neither did I. It gave me goosebumps, I remember.


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Sent with elvish telepathic powers with a dashed line above to make Jude happy.

[Elentári]

Confirmation from Billy Connolly that Dain is in, and movie SPOILERS regarding how his role plays out!

Billy Connolly: They turned me into the Wee Yin for my role in The Hobbit.. but I'm just glad I didn't die

[Smaug's voice]

Dain looks awesome!

[Elentári]

Uh...unfortunately, that photo they used is an old image from the Trading Card game, not what Dain will actually look like in Jackson's movie!

[Passdagas the Brown]

Not unfortunate, IMO. Though I don't expect Dain to look like I imagine him, I really didn't like the overwrought prosthetics of the LOTR dwarves, and the trading card Dain looks a lot like those.

Glad to hear that Dain's in. And also happy to hear about his role...

Billy Connolly is going to ham it up, but I can't wait!

[Dave_LF]

I've never bought the "Dain has been cut in an 11th hour rewrite" rumors, but if they were true, would Connolly even know?

[Alatar]

Didn't we see concept art of Dain a few days back, with a moustache that's shaped like Boar's horns? Or was that on Facebook I saw that?

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I think you might be thinking of these images?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LpCyA3J7-5A/V ... 6554_o.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Q4NTbD5q5yg/V ... 7215_o.jpg

Personally, I like that a heck of lot more than the Trading Card image used in the article, but who knows how close it is to how he really will look in the film. We've seen plenty of concept art that proves completely different than the final version.