Pride and Prejudice: Adaptations of Austen

[cemthinae]

I've read P&P more times than I care to count, yet I still find myself wondering if Lizzie and Darcy will get together. This is part of her extraordinary gift as a novelist I think.

I don't have time to read this entire thread, but this really jumped out at me. It's the same reason I read Persuasion (my favourite Austen novel) over & over again. (Well, except it being different characters & all that! )

But I am usually in anguish over whether things will really work out because it is so real! I very often find myself reluctant to put the book down until I know things come out in the end!

I love it!

[vison]

The caps for married women thing—am I correct in assuming that it came from earlier times, when a married woman would always conceal her hair under a wimple (a linen head-covering)?

In the book I was named after, the character I was named after is pregnant when she finally manages to marry the man she has to marry—she is about five months gone at the wedding, in fact—and on waking up after her wedding night she sees the white linen wimple spread out for her to put on and thinks about how "fresh, and cool, and restful" it looks.

(Yeah, thanks, Mom . . . this probably explains why you had to wait SEVEN YEARS for grandchildren!)

I, too, was bothered by the lack of hats on ladies out-of-doors.

Married women customarily covered their heads, yes, a holdver from the wimple and its ilk. And their hair would be "up", braided and bound about their heads, or in some kind of updo, at any rate. Generally speaking only unmarried girls wore their hair down and uncovered. By the time of P & P, though, even unmarried girls wore their hair "up" or even cropped, which was a brief fashion a bit after P & P's era. And when going outdoors, girls wore hats. Always. Tanned skin meant that you had to be outdoors and so was a sign of low class, truly upper class women never would have exposed their skin to the sun in the ordinary course of events. Think of how Miss Bingley sneered at Lizzy for being tanned and how Mr. Darcy leapt to her defense, pointing out that she had been traveling in the summer! (In an open carriage, which is a whole other "thing", the fashions in carriages were like the fashions in cars. I think of Mrs. Elton and the famous "barouche landau".......)

Jeez, even men wore hats all the time outdoors. And many men wore caps, particularly in the winter, in their houses. Those houses were cold and draughty and people wore caps and nightcaps to keep warm as much as anything.

Mrs. Bennet is seen wearing a cap indoors, some were quite elaborate with ribbons and lace, some very simple. It was a sign of modesty, as much as anything. A woman's hair was a powerful erotic attractant, and only a husband got to see his wife's hair down. A sign of intimacy. In Tolkien's day, for instance, it really was a great intimate privilege for a girl to let a man see her hair down. Edith's famous dance in the woods (Beren watching Lúthien) meant they were really hot for each other!!! Only very young girls wore it down and loose all the time.

This hatwearing custom lasted a VERY long time, right up until my childhood, as a matter of fact. My Mum wore a hat when she went out, and no woman or girl would dream of going to church hatless. (When the Queen of England visited the last pope, she wore the most exquisite black lace mantilla.) Queen Mary, our present Queen's grandma, was still alive when I was a kid, she was famous for always wearing a hat, even in her own house. Look at newsreels from the 50's and early 60's, most women had a hat on in public and almost all men. I recall very clearly the comments about John F. Kennedy being hatless at his inauguration, which seemed to set the trend. Soon only older men wore hats and now it is uncommon.

[Hachimitsu]

Watching the BBC Firth version of the P& P movie. I'll probably lurk but ooh it's such a lovely movie. I very musch appreciated that they stuck to the book.

( I was given the book by my mother at age 11. Her mother bought it for her at around the same age. Couldn't really understand it until I was 13 though. )

[Queen_Beruthiel]

Count me as a huge fan of the BBC series.

Slight nitpick however - posters are calling it a "movie". It's - what? - five or six hours long. Hence its fidelity to the book. With so much time, the adaptors can take their time and adopt a relaxed pacing.

A real film of 2 hours or so would have to adapt more aggressively.

Anyway, I approve of the early scene between Darcy and Bingley. Jane never (?) gives us men-without-women scenes and this set up the move to Netherfield and the Darcy/Bingley characters and relationship very well indeed.

[Cerin]

I agree, that was very effective. In fact, the first few minutes of the film did very well in setting up the Bennet characters and familial relationships as well.

And yes, it's good to keep in mind that they had six hours at their disposal, to facilitate faithfulness to the book. What a rare treat.

[truehobbit]

And I hated the bath! What was the purpose of that? Did we have to see him wet and the hair even more disorderly than usual?

Yes.

Yes, we did.

Ethel, good point about this (the combination of Darcy in the bath and Lizzie playing with the dog) showing the sensuality of both characters.
Still, if I remember rightly, we get to see Darcy wet again later - so, I think there's rather a lot of dripping masculinity here.

Hmmmh, as to the fashion of the time, I think that when corsets were finally dropped in the early 20th century this was seen as a major change - before, not wearing a corset was simply indecent - so I find it hard to imagine that in this time it was optional to wear one.
On the other hand, the Empire is quite a revolutionary style, so I think it's just possible those trends that have been mentioned here (see-through, clinging skirts) were part of it. I don't know much about it, I'm afraid.

As to the wearing of caps, hats and hoods etc, very true what has been said about it being obligatory for married women - in German the colloquial expression for getting or being married is to be "under the hood".

I agree with Cerin about Wickham. Looks a bit better once in uniform, but when we first meet him he's not attractive at all. He needs to be a lot more dashing.

He reminds me of the Willoughby in Ang Lee's Sense and Sensibility: pretty but too soft. I'd guess it was deliberate in both cases; moral weakness made visible?

Hmmh, don't remember Willoughby just now, but I don't think this Wickham was too soft, rather the contrary. He seemed to me somewhat rough and hunky, and I imagine him more like a beau.

Slight nitpick however - posters are calling it a "movie".

True, it would more correctly be called a mini-series. "Movie" is quicker to type, though.

I didn't like the first scene at all, I must say.
Darcy and Bingley riding at a gallop was unnecessary action, I thought, as if they were anxious to point out the masculinity of the characters.
Also, in the book, I rather like the way we only get to see Darcy some way into the book, and then only in a negative light. Here, we get to see him first thing - giving the impression that he is the main character of the story, and presenting him in a positive light.
Then there's the cross-cutting with Elisabeth walking. It appears that they are very close already and bound to meet. IMO, the impression created is one of fate - some people are meant for each other and we'll see how they will get together. I think that's quite contrary to the feeling created in the beginning of the book.

[Alatar]

Well, I've only watched the first episode, so no Wickham yet, but I love the casting so far. The only character I find jarring is Miss Bingley. I know her as a comedienne in several BBC and Channel 4 comedys, notably "Smack the Pony". Also, she seems too severe and as such, not a genuine competition to Lizzie. I had imagined her as blonde and very pretty. On the other hand, I disagree with whoever said Jane was not a beauty. She's genuinely beautiful and very fine featured. I was delighted to see Julia Sawahla playing Lydia. It's just a pity they didn't get her sister to play Kitty. She's also a fine actress and the family resemblance would have worked so well.

Mrs. Bennet is perfect. As is Mr. Bennet.

[Ethel]

I made some notes watching the first episode the other night. Don't know if this will be of any interest or not...


We begin with everyone in motion. Darcy & Bingley are galloping their horses at some distance from Netherfield, the better to admire it. Elizabeth watches them from a height. After quickly scanning the horizon to make sure no one can see her, she takes off skipping and running.

I think the message is that these are very physical, corporeal people, who delight in being outdoors, and in rapid movement.

Lizzie gets home and hears female squabbling. Stops to peer in her father's library window. They share rolled eyes.

"I am convinced that nothing except the very deepest love will ever tempt me into matrimony. ... And so I shall end an old maid, and teach your 10 children to embroider cushions and play their instruments very ill!" - this might have been Austen's manifesto. And she did end up so.

Mr Bennet doing his accounts. He is not satisfied. He knows he should be more frugal to provide a better future for his dependents.

Lizzie looking at herself in the mirror before bed - trying on expressions - blowing the candle out. Young, charming.

Clothing: Miss Bingley and Mrs Hurst are dressed in the latest fashions; very expensive ones. They wear dyed silk, lace, jewels, ostrich feathers. The Bennet girls are quite plain by comparison. Their dresses are simpler, less fashionable and less adorned.

"You do us great honor sir!" - not the thing at all. (Mrs Bennet saying this to Mr Bingley.)

Love the scene where Lizzie overhears Darcy describing her as "tolerable." At first she is taken aback, but she is too good humored and high spirited to let it get her down. She walks past him with that secret smile... and laughs about it with Charlotte... and already he begins to be intrigued.

Mr. Hurst - does he not look like an illustration of The Rake's Progress?

Darcy bathing, Elizabeth playing with the dog. Again with the physical.

[Cerin]

"You do us great honor sir!" - not the thing at all. (Mrs Bennet saying this to Mr Bingley.)

I'm glad you brought this up, Ethel. Could anyone make out what Mrs. Bennet says to Jane directly after this, which evidently chagrins Lizzie and for which she quietly protests to her mother? It's the one line of dialogue I couldn't make out.

Why was it so bad to say, 'You do us great honor, sir!'?

[Ethel]

"You do us great honor sir!" - not the thing at all. (Mrs Bennet saying this to Mr Bingley.)

I'm glad you brought this up, Ethel. Could anyone make out what Mrs. Bennet says to Jane directly after this, which evidently chagrins Lizzie and for which she quietly protests to her mother? It's the one line of dialogue I couldn't make out.

Why was it so bad to say, 'You do us great honor, sir!'?

Because he wasn't doing them great honor. He was just being ordinarily courteous. It was an obsequious and fawning comment - the sort of thing Mr Collins might say.

[Queen_Beruthiel]

Excellent post Ethel.

The first scene dramatizes something always implied in Austen's novels: the contrast between her men and her women in terms of their freedom of movement. The men are nearly always depicted striding here and there, or riding. When a situation becomes unpleasant, they can decamp somewhere else (London, or Bath ususally). The women, by contrast, must remain where they are until they can be conveyed elsewhere. Even for a woman to walk about the countryside freely raises eyebrows. The catty Bingley females portray Elizabeth as almost peasant-like, because of her love of walking (and in Emma Jane Fairfax walking about is considered quite shocking).

Women, in short, are trapped, by convention and lack of resources, while men can get about, get away.

The dialogue between Bingley and Darcy displays their characters nicely: Bingley deferential to Darcy, aware of his social inferiority, eager to be pleased by his new home. Darcy - the opposite.

Not bad for a few sentences!

[Impenitent]

"Country manners?! I think they're charming!"

Already, we are inclined to like him - while Darcy's haughtiness is hinted at.

And he does not hold back his differing opinion here - so not so very deferential. I think he's just more willing to please, more willing to take the advice of a friend. He's more pliant, perhaps. Darcy so obviously not so at all.

[truehobbit]

"You do us great honor sir!" - not the thing at all. (Mrs Bennet saying this to Mr Bingley.)

I'm glad you brought this up, Ethel. Could anyone make out what Mrs. Bennet says to Jane directly after this, which evidently chagrins Lizzie and for which she quietly protests to her mother? It's the one line of dialogue I couldn't make out.

I tried to find the "you do us great honour"-line just now, but must have missed it - where is it?

In my search for the line, I also saw the fateful dialogue between Bingley and Darcy about the pretty girls in the room, and I thought Bingley wasn't deferential at all - he was being quite outspoken about Darcy's silliness, I thought.

As to the beauty of the ladies, I'm partly surprised (partly, because I know I have ideas about what's beautiful that most people don't share ) about people saying Jane was beautiful and Lizzie "angular" - I think that Jane's features are a bit imbalanced and somewhat coarse even (in that, however, they are also quite "English" - no offense ), while I think Lizzie's features are perfectly balanced and very finely proportioned - I think she's perfectly beautiful.

I'm not sure, but I think Miss Bingley is wearing rouge - I think that to a large degree was what put me in mind of her looking indecent.

(I haven't yet watched the second episode properly either, just the first half or so.)

[Queen_Beruthiel]

Well, Bingley's almost-first words are:

"It's nothing to Pemberley, I know but..."

He then asks Darcy:

"Have I your approval"

Quarrel with the word "deference" if you will but the lines signal to the audience Darcy's higher social status (and Bingley's acknowledgement of it), as well as showing that Bingley seeks Darcy's nod on his decision.

A good exchange, anyway.

[Impenitent]

Quarrel with the word "deference" if you will but the lines signal to the audience Darcy's higher social status (and Bingley's acknowledgement of it), as well as showing that Bingley seeks Darcy's nod on his decision.

A good exchange, anyway.

Perhaps it was a quibble about 'deference'. I agree with the remainder of your statement, fully.

Bingley does seem to require the support of others in his decision-making (Austen tells us this in the book via Lizzie - 'easily guided' is, I think, the term she used) so yes, it is a very good exchange in setting up their characters and their relationship.

But he's not deferential.

[Ethel]

Ethel, good point about this (the combination of Darcy in the bath and Lizzie playing with the dog) showing the sensuality of both characters. Still, if I remember rightly, we get to see Darcy wet again later - so, I think there's rather a lot of dripping masculinity here.

But... but... you say that like it's a bad thing!


C'mon, peeps. Am I the only one writing about this? Jump in, everyone. Herewith some random thoughts on the second episode...

But first the issue of Beauty. This is a problem that many of the adaptations of P&P have. Everyone keeps talking about how much prettier Jane is, but... she isn't. Not in this one. Susanna Harker is quite a pretty woman with a slender graceful neck that is in keeping with the 'Roman' ideal of beauty then current. But Jennifer Ehle is incandescent. It's really not possible to get oneself to believe that anyone, upon meeting the two of them, would find 'Jane' the more beautiful. This is a flaw in the casting though, I would argue, a forgiveable one. Forgiveable because in some ways Jennifer Ehle is a perfect Elizabeth. It's not her beauty, which is almost too much for the part - it's the humor and intelligence in her face. Similarly, Charlotte Lucas is meant to be 'plain'. Well, this one isn't. They gave the actress a very severe hairstyle, and I guess that's meant to be code for 'plain'. But she's at least as pretty as the actess playing Jane.


The episode opens, again, with Lizzie walking outdoors and exulting in its beauty. I know this was a particular concern of the scriptwriter, Andrew Davies. He wanted a very physical Elizabeth. But I don't think it's out of tune with the book.

Next, the advent of Mr Collins! Mr Bennet begins reading his letter, then we segue to Mr Collins's voice, with scenes of him simpering and cringing before Lady Catherine. I love this characterization. It's more of a charicature, really, but that too is in keeping with the book. To die for: "I shall travel as far as the turnpike in my own modest equipage... "

I read that they gave David Bamber a comb-over to make him look like he was going bald, and kept his hair well-greased. Perfect! I also love the Mr Collins musical theme.

The dinner at Longbourne seems to be focussed around Lizzie trying not to laugh at Mr Collins's conversation, which she does very prettily.

I love the old bridge they walk over on the way to Meryton. And Meryton is a pretty little village. I did find myself wondering where all the horse poop was, though.

Curious about the red capes Kitty and Lydia are wearing - is this somehow in honor of the redcoats they adore... or maybe just a visual link?

Lydia shouting "Denny!" - so vulgar. And then inviting Wickham to Mrs Phillip's party upon just meeting him. "No one cares about that nowadays!" A definite foreshadowing of problems to come.

Lizzie watches the interaction between Darcy & Wickham so carefully and thoughtfully. She does not like Darcy. He has been rude to her. She does not know Wickham, but gives him the benefit of the doubt because she feels solidarity in having excited Darcy's contempt. So later, at Mrs Phillips's party, Lizzie allows - nay, encourages - Wickham's nasty story. This is not Lizzie's finest hour.

Lydia laughing - so deliciously vulgar. We know she goes to the wrong, but there is something rather appealing about her naturalness, is there not? Even in the book.

What curious evening parties people had! Liable to burst out into singing and/or dancing at any moment.

The scene between Lizzie and Jane, where Lizzie passes on Wickham's story - very well done. We love Lizzie's passion, but it's Jane who is right.

Then there's the scene at Longbourne where Lizzie and Wickham are conversing, and we see a bit of what she likes in him. He comments, "Mr Collins's conversation is very, um, wholesome." And Lizzie replies with delight, "And there's plenty to be had of it, I assure you." They're having fun, and we suspect we would too, if we were part of the group.

The encounter on the landing between Lydia and Collins - I like it. It's not in the book, but it's very typical for both Lydia and Collins. Poor Mr Collins must be used to being laughed at, and must hate it.

The Netherfield ball. Caroline is such a snot. Greets Jane, Elizabeth, and Mr and Mrs Bennet, then rolls her eyes as she says, "Ah. And all your daughters... "

Lizzie has such high hopes, looking for Wickham. They cut between her hopeful face and Darcy's brooding one.

The torment of dancing with Mr Collins. "Other way, Mr Collins!" Darcy enjoys this. Not in a mean way, I don't think. He fancies Elizabeth and doesn't really want to see her suffer, but... it's funny.

Charlotte says, very rightly, "You'd be a simpleton indeed if you let your fancy for Wickham lead you to slight a man of ten times his consequence." But Elizabeth cares nothing for worldly prominence, and is simply vexed that she can't think of a way to decline Darcy's invitation to dance.

I think the scene of Elizabeth and Darcy dancing and talking is one of my all time favorites. Lizzie is really angry with Darcy, but she's still amusing and charming. Darcy is vexed, but not really at Lizzie. There's that odd moment of Sir Lucas's interruption of the dance. I don't think that's something that would have been done, but it serves the narrative purpose of fixing Darcy's attention on the fact that everyone expects Bingley to marry Jane.

Mary's performance is excrutiating, truly. In the book we are told it's not good - the film makes us hear.

Lydia dancing past with someone's scabbard... that's painful too. Elizabeth is not having any fun. All of her relations except Jane are behaving badly.

And then... the proposal from Mr Collins. It actually hurts to watch. It's so nice when Mr Bennet takes Elizabeth's side. But remember, Mr Collins is to inherit Longbourne. Mrs Bennet is not wrong to wish that one of her daughters marry Collins - it could perhaps save the family from absolute poverty later. Mr Bennet won't have Lizzie sacrificed to the future comfort of his wife and daughters - and we cheer him on for this. But is Mrs Bennet so wrong? How do you weigh the well-being of five people - Mrs Bennet and the other daughters - against the unhappiness of one?

One of the things that was so revolutionary about this story is that Austen didn't hesitate a minute over that problem. Lizzie is a free, worthwhile and intelligent human being. She cannot be sacrificed to a fool, no matter how secure it will make the future of her family.

[Cerin]

On the beauty issue, yes, I can understand the casting of the more beautiful woman as Elizabeth; I think the audience can suspend our disbelief when Lizzie says to Jane, 'But as you are five times prettier than the rest of us ...' and also when Darcy comments that Jane is the only handsome woman in the room. I think this is the same phenomenon that vison mentioned back when she told us about her school play. They cast the handsomer boy as Darcy, because we want Darcy to be handsomest (and then the better actor as Wickham outshone him, IIRC). Btw, I do not think the actress playing Charlotte is nearly as pretty as the actress playing Jane.

Yes, I think the scenes with Mr. Collins are everything one could hope for!

Regarding Lydia, I agree she was more appealing in the film than in the book; I was wondering if they cast her in part for her gruff, raspy voice, which is at such odds with everyone else's intonations. The thing is, if one slips into viewing her behavior in terms of modern expectations, she comes across as spontaneous and vivacious (likable) rather than objectionable.

Then there's the scene at Longbourne where Lizzie and Wickham are conversing, and we see a bit of what she likes in him. He comments, "Mr Collins's conversation is very, um, wholesome." And Lizzie replies with delight, "And there's plenty to be had of it, I assure you." They're having fun, and we suspect we would too, if we were part of the group.

Yes, and the way he stops Mr. Collins from going on about the fireplace by saying, 'Likes a nice big fire' or some such; Lizzie appreciated that adeptness. I also very much enjoyed the entrance of Jane to entice Mr. Collins away with matters of 'great doctrinal import'.

[Queen_Beruthiel]

Mr Collins is marvellously done, even by the high standards of this production.

Mrs B's dilemma would be affecting if she was presented more sympathetically. After all, if her husband died she and her daughters would be left with next to nothing, not even a roof over their heads.

I've said before - just a few tweaks and any Jane Austen novel could be turned into a tragedy; the material is capable of a different bent. Just think what Charlotte Bronte would have made of this situation. She would have killed Mr. B off quite early and forced the girls to make their own way in the world.

As governesses?

But JA was writing a comedy and she does not slant our sympathy towards Mrs B.

Back to the adaptation, the proposal scene is excruciating. And very funny.

This Mr. Bennet is so dry and droll! Best Mr. B ever.

[Cerin]

This Mr. Bennet is delightful, but I think he should be a bit crankier. He seems a little too happy to me, but I do enjoy him immensely.

I noticed on a second viewing that they cut away to a dog howling outside when Mary was singing at the Netherfield ball. (Poor Mary!)

The third episode goes from the news of Charlotte's betrothal, through Darcy's proposal to Lizzie. It's such a delight to see these scenes we've talked about playing out so wonderfully on the screen! There's such a wonderful feeling of anticipation at the beginning of each Darcy/Lizzie encounter (of course, it doesn't hurt that Firth is such a dreamboat).

I remember I felt so sad when reading, over the change in Lizzie's and Charlotte's relationship. I don't think the change in Lizzie's attitude is quite so clear in the film, so I didn't have the same sense of regret about it. The various looks those two exchanged during the Hunsford scenes were so full of meaning!

I thought the exposition of the letter from Netherfield and Jane's and Lizzie's differing viewpoints was handled very well, although I found that even having just read the book, I wanted to rewind that conversation to get everything straight.

I think we are necessarily losing some of the sense of progression of Lizzie's thinking about Darcy. I particularly was trying to remember what had prompted her remarks in the book to her Aunt, which in the movie she makes in the bedroom scene to Jane, about the more she learns about life the more dissatisfied she feels. I can't quite recall what had irritated her so much at that point in the book. She wasn't really upset about Wickham and Miss King, but I seem to recall it having something to do with Darcy. Or was it the dashing of Jane's hopes so thoroughly that had her out of sorts?

I thought every moment of the Hunsford visit was wonderful! Lady de Bourgh, though different than I'd pictured her, is superbly done! I loved the look of horror on everyone else's face when Lizzie volunteered her opinions in that first sitting.



The first conversation scene with Fitzwilliam very clearly sets up Lizzie's continued cluelessness over Darcy's changing feelings. She is usually so perceptive, but not in this case. I wondered about the silent encounter when Lizzie is walking and Darcy shows up on his horse. That was quite awkward, and I wonder that Darcy had nothing at all to say. That was one of the most challenging expressions that Lizzie had shown thus far.

I thought the conversation at the piano at Rosings was so well done! Just as in the book, it is the first softening and playfulness shown by Darcy. And I just loved Darcy's ever so subtle eyeroll as Lady de Bourgh's piercing voice intrudes on their intimacy!

I noticed with interest that the line -- when Darcy visits the vicarage to find Lizzie alone that first time -- that gave us all so much trouble was altered a bit (I think, haven't actually checked) to make it clearer.

I wondered how the progression of feelings, from the conversation with Fitzwilliam that revealed the extent of Darcy's blame in the Bingley affair through the proposal, would have come across to someone who hadn't read the book. The first time I watched it, I was a bit let down by the emotional impact (which had been so strong when reading), as it all seemed to go by so quickly. I appreciated the handling of it much more the second time around. The distress in Lizzie's face as she brings the walk with Fitzwilliam to a halt, and the expressions and she and Darcy exchange their words. I just loved the way they extended the silence so long at the outset of the proposal scene. Excruciating!

[Primula Baggins]

I love the proposal scene. It animates what's in the book so well, and the way Firth plays it, you really understand that he is carried away by "the utmost force of passion," as he says in his letter (in the book). That passion never came across for me in the book, but of course in this production we've seen it all along. It's my favorite adaptational change, because the actions of book Darcy are entirely consistent with it: it explains so much.

Of course, in the film we have the advantage of seeing Darcy when Elizabeth is not present, and seeing his expressions when she is not aware that he's watching her. Neither is possible in a book written mostly from Elizabeth's point of view.