Radagast revisited

[SirDennis]

He diverts them, but he does a terrible job!

Instead of leading the wargs in the opposite direction, he keeps criss-crossing the dwarves' path so they scatter like skittles. It's more good luck than good management that they are not caught before the leap into the hidden passageway.

Prim, leaving aside Lee's illustration of another book, how do you feel about the on-screen manifestation of Radagast?

But maybe he and Gandalf were working in concert to drive the dwarves into Rivendell?

[Impenitent]

Maybe, but I am less charitable than you with regards to PJ's motivations; I cynically believe his intentions were to portray Radagast as a nincompoop who can't even execute an effective diversion.

Gandalf surely did drive them to Rivendell, but he didn't require Radagast's collusion - he very effectively drove Bilbo into an adventure (later claiming he was "barely involved"). Gandalf the Grey has a little of the trickster in him, after all.

[Folca]

I agree with Impenitent. PJ turned Radagast into a mockery.

I am no movie director or published author, but I have always imagined Radagast as a quiet, introspective recluse, attuned to the natural world around him and not dependent on social interaction with man, dwarves or elves. Radagast should be out of touch with what is going on outside Mirkwood and the Misty Mountains, but very in tune with what goes on in his environs.

Radagast was a recluse by choice, not a idiotic drug user like he is portrayed in the movie.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I pretty strongly disagree. After all, Radagast the Brown did a far sight better at confronting the Witchking than Gandalf did. And that was the powerful Gandalf the White. And he bravely investigated Dol Goldur, and healed his little friend. As for the chase, I thought that was far more realistic than if he he had just directed them in a straight line away from Gandalf the company. That's not the way things happen in the world, whether it is the real world or a secondary world like this one.

Beneath the surface, this Radagast fellow is quite impressive. You just have to look beneath the surface.

[Primula Baggins]

Prim, leaving aside Lee's illustration of another book, how do you feel about the on-screen manifestation of Radagast?

I'm not defending it. I could do without the bird poop entirely, and the look when he smokes the Shire weed. The rabbit sled—I expected it to bother me, but it didn't.

My concern is just for accurately discussing a text. The bird poop in the wizard's hair is a reality in T.H. White's The Once and Future King—whether it's in the illustration or not, which is hard to see, it is certainly in the text.

I think it's realistic to suppose that because Lee illustrated that text, the provenance of the Radagast bird poop is not some juvenile, sadistic impulse on PJ's part but a borrowing, conscious or not, from a respectable source.

Whether it works in the film is another issue, and that is not what I'm posting about.

[Impenitent]

Radagast the Brown did a far sight better at confronting the Witchking than Gandalf did. And that was the powerful Gandalf the White.

Yes, he did.

One must keep in mind though, this occurred 60 years previous to LOTR, when Sauron was back at full power (or as full as it could be without the Ring). Radagast confronted the witchking at the time when Sauron was just re-emerging from the shadows and not yet at full strength, and so neither would his servant have been at full strength.

Not to discount Radagast's achievement. Actually, his confrontation with the witchking, and the associated deductive reasoning did much to salvage him from the role of nincompoop.

Nonetheless, I think PJ's embellishments did degrade the character, in the same way as the skull avalanche degraded the depiction of Aragorn's journey on the Paths of the Dead.

As for the chase, I thought that was far more realistic than if he he had just directed them in a straight line away from Gandalf the company. That's not the way things happen in the world, whether it is the real world or a secondary world like this one.

I think you're drawing a long bow there.

I wouldn't have expected a straight-line chase in the opposite direction, but this criss-crossing back and forth reminded me of those Marx Brothers farces in which they ran in and out of doors, back and forth across the stage.

I don't stand with Folca in declaring Radagast a mockery, but I was very disappointed - in fact, I'd go as far as saying I felt hurt that Radagast (whom I'd always pictured as a kind of St Francis), had been poked fun at in that way. I still recognised him, but I felt embarrassed for him.

[yovargas]

Whereas I had no particular image of Radagast one way or the other and thus had only what I saw on screen to judge. And what I saw on screen was annoying.

[kzer_za]

I cynically believe his intentions were to portray Radagast as a nincompoop who can't even execute an effective diversion.

Really? Radagast's diversion is pretty effective. It works until Kili fails to silently kill the one stray orc. The terrain is rough, so it's quite understandable that Radagast would have difficult leading them constantly in one specific direction.

Yes, there is a fair amount of luck involved, but no more than in a lot of movie action scenes. I think it's drawing a long bow to blame the plan's failure on his incompetence (and it doesn't really fail - without him, they might not have gotten the distance to Rivendell).

[JewelSong]

I loved Radagast on screen. I've now seen the movie 4 times and I like him better every time. Compassionate, eccentric, part of the very nature he strives to protect. And also both wise and foolish...and brave, too. He might have faith in the speed of the rabbits, but it was still a risk to draw the wares away.

And of course the chase scene is a little bit funny, too...which is also in the spirit of the book.

Radagast is a little crazy....I love how his house is all angles and lines and looks like it is falling down around itself. I love all the animals in it (and the drawing by Lee is very much like the inside of Radagast's house in the movie!) I love that he can obviously communicate with the creatures and how he talks to the bird warning him.

I think PJ did a good job of balancing the sacred with the profane, so to speak.

[Dave_LF]

I certainly did not interpret Radagast's diversion as a failure.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Impy, I felt largely the same way about Radagast after my first viewing. By the third, I had a completely different perspective.

[SirDennis]

I cynically believe his intentions were to portray Radagast as a nincompoop who can't even execute an effective diversion.

Really? Radagast's diversion is pretty effective. It works until Kili fails to silently kill the one stray orc. The terrain is rough, so it's quite understandable that Radagast would have difficult leading them constantly in one specific direction.

Yes, there is a fair amount of luck involved, but no more than in a lot of movie action scenes. I think it's drawing a long bow to blame the plan's failure on his incompetence (and it doesn't really fail - without him, they might not have gotten the distance to Rivendell).

And if I'm not mistaken, he changed direction a couple times because the direction he was travelling became blocked by wargs (with or without riders) cresting bluffs or appearing from behind rocks.

ETA Voronwë, I thought his encounter with the Witch-King very telling of his competency. And that was an attack from overhead and behind... yes quite capable.

[kzer_za]

And he drives the spiders off with a spell while healing the hedgehog at the same time.

Though with that said, I just read this on Facebook (a comment on the best movies of the year):

i would like to nominate the scene from the hobbit where the hippie wizard leads the wargs on an epic wild goose chase with his speedy rabbit sled...hadn't laughed that hard in a movie theatre since i heard darth vader yell nooo after they told him leia died

Does this represent the average movie goer's view of Radagast? I hope not. My friends and family didn't see him that way.

[SirDennis]

Speaking of spiders and overhead attacks from behind, Frodo did not fare nearly so well in a similar situation... and he knew the enemy was near.

Kzer, I wasn't offended by Radagast's hippie appearance, or his behaviour. But then I'm a child of hippies and have known quite a few eccentric people in my day. I guess people have a notion of how a hero should look and act, despite many examples in film and real life to the contrary...

[Sunsilver]

They broadcast AUJ on TV today, and I have to say Radagast's line about the rabbits of Rhosgobel is STILL by far the worst, most cringe worthy line in the film, and comes a close to second to Tauriel's line "Why does it HURT so much?" after Fili dies.

[JewelSong]

Oh, Sunny, I very much disagree. I loved Radagast and the whole rabbit sled sequence! I agree with Sir D about the hippies!


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[Sunsilver]

J.S., I actually liked the pipeweed part of that scene. I don't recall how I reacted to it the first two times I saw the film, but this time, it gave me a good laugh...so THAT'S why Old Toby is so popular!

[sauronsfinger]

The problem I had with the character was the visual design with what I considered to be a silly hat and the bird poop on his face and hair. Throw in the rabbits and it was over the top and very undignified for a member of the Istari.

[JewelSong]

I loved the depiction. It was whimsical. And it was very much like the description of Merlin in TH White's "Once and Future King" - bird poop and all. I'll try to find the text.

Check out Alan Lee's illustration. http://alan-lee.narod.ru/Images/lee-oth ... eStone.jpg


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[Voronwë the Faithful]

The only parts of Radagast's depiction that I disliked was the stick insect on the tip of tongue, and his cross-eyed look when Gandalf had him toke from the pipe. I didn't much like the bird poop, though I respected its origin with TH White (as Jewel notes).