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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:53 am 
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Living in hope
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Once again, the thread was getting unwieldy, so here's a fresh one.

Maybe it's time for a change just in general.

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― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King


Last edited by Primula Baggins on Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:56 am 
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In the old thread, TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:
Proof of grades being unimportant: George Bush.


On the contrary, I think that Bush's less than mediocre grades throughout his scholastic career were a pretty good predictor of his subsequent intellectual rigor as president (or lack thereof). Regardless of his success or lack of succes before Harvard, the fact that Obama was able to be so successful there I certainly one factor that I consider in suppoting him. Not just that he had good grades, but that he exhibited the kind of leadership qualities even then that led him to be made president of the Law Review (and still managed to get good grades despite the huge time committment that required).

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:58 am 
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VtF, in reference to your last post in the other thread. You do know that being President of the Law review is a popularity contest, right? I mean, it's voted on by the other members, it has nothing to do with merit.

If anything, it shows he's good at getting elected.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:02 am 
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Britons who hated Britain:
Cromwell, Milton, Bunyan, Penn, Blake, Wilberforce, Byron, Shelley, Dickens, Pankhurst, Lawrence, Orwell, countless trade unionists, reformers, journalists and preachers.

God bless'em.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:03 am 
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response to hal from the other thread:

Forgive me if I don't take your word on things pertaining to Jeremiah Wright. You seem to be too willing to throw out things like 'racist' and 'hates America'.

We've already had this discussion about people and their pastors. Others have said that they do not agree with everything their pastor says but that does not prohibit them from being a member of their church.

Since you haven't been sitting in on all of Wright's sermons for the past 20 years, you have no clue as to what they were mostly about. The stuff you're complaining about could have been a small minority of Wright's sermons, but since it's inflammatory to some, made into a very big deal.

In regards to Palin, she's been outright dishonest about her record and has been actively avoiding the press. You don't like Obama because you think he has lied and been hiding things. You don't want these two qualities in a president. It confuses me that you are okay with these two things in regards to Palin.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:03 am 
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Have you ever been part of the Law Review, hal? I haven't and would never have said that.

Click me

I'd say we can talk tax policy, but I myself don't exactly understand tax policy except for what the candidates say. Obama's "spreads the wealth" which is fine by me. I am not against a little socialism in this state of the nation. McCain's, as to my understanding, has policies too similar to Bush to really enact any change.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:05 am 
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Quote:
it has nothing to do with merit


No, of course it doesn't. Any schmo could run for president of the Harvard Law Review.

Any schmo who'd already been picked as an editor for the Review, which means he's in his second year of academic success in one of the toughest schools in the country.

:nono:

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“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:11 am 
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My experience with student groups of any kind is that the students choose the leader they are willing to follow. Likeability plays a part in that, but so does competence. Students aren't stupid. They want the person they've put in charge to be qualified for the job. This tendency becomes only more prominent in larger and more established student groups because the students feel that they have a tradition to uphold and they're proud of that tradition and believe in whatever their group's mission is. The lovable slacker might get elected to some other position, such as secretary, but certainly not president.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:12 am 
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Given that the Republican campaign has clearly labelled Obama as a dangerous liberal who will introduce socialist policies; then what if the American public goes ahead and chooses him?
Does that mean the public have democratically and with forethought chosen to have gone in a socialist direction?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:17 am 
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ToshoftheWuffingas wrote:
Given that the Republican campaign has clearly labelled Obama as a dangerous liberal who will introduce socialist policies; then what if the American public goes ahead and chooses him?
Does that mean the public have democratically and with forethought chosen to have gone in a socialist direction?


Just out of curiousity, how did socialist tendencies evolve in Britain? How did the idea of the NHS come about? Did people support it? So many people seem to be on benefits and the government is involved so much more in Britain than in the US. I'm guessing people voted in the politicians that brought this about? One wonders if the US will ultimately head this direction one day.

Btw, you and I really need to go to sleep! :P


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:18 am 
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Obama campaign workers in Appalachia are hearing some people there saying that economic conditions are so terrible that they are going to vote for the <racist term>. There's just a limit to how much people are willing to take, and these are some of the most economically hard-hit areas of the country, also hit hard by the general neglect of pretty much everything governments usually do that's been a hallmark of the past eight years.

As ye sow, so shall ye reap, and all that.

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“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:22 am 
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tosh wrote:
Does that mean the public have democratically and with forethought chosen to have gone in a socialist direction?


I imagine people will just assume that Obama stole the election. Similar to 2000.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:24 am 
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I picked this up from another website. Pretty big news, if true. Of course, the Obama campaign could adjust and go back into PA to compete.


Quote:
Most people top in the McCain campaign now believe New Mexico and Iowa are gone, that Barack Obama will win New Mexico and Iowa. They are now off the dream list of the McCain campaign. More interestingly, most top people inside the McCain campaign think Colorado is gone.

So they are now finishing with a very risky strategy. Win Florida. Win Nevada ... And here is the biggest risk of all -- yes they have to win North Carolina, yes they have to win Ohio, yes they have to win Virginia, trailing or dead-even in all those states right now. But they are betting Wolf on coming back and taking the state of Pennsylvania. It has become the critical state now in the McCain electoral scenario. And they are down 10, 12, and even 14 points in some polls there. But they say as Colorado, Iowa and other states drift away, they think they have to take a big state. 21 electoral votes in Pennsylvania, Wolf, watch that state over the next few weeks.


dailykos

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:26 am 
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Here is tomorrows Republican cause celebre that will be turned into talking points ....

from ABCNEWS.com

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"These are the exciting last two week moments of the presidential campaign," said Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., today in Cambridge, Mass. "So it's a very special time. I can't wait for it to be over. I am so tired of the press' silly questions that they ask along the way. And cable television which reduces everything to stupidity - the lowest common denominator of conflict."

"I don't know if any of you know what it's like. I do, obviously," Kerry told the crowd. "I've been asked all of those brilliant questions that were repeated this year...Barack got asked the famous boxers or briefs question. I was tempted to say commando...

"Then they asked McCain and McCain said, ‘Depends,'" Kerry said.


The drudgereport has this as their top story of the evening. I just heard it discussed on local conservative talk radio here in Michigan. It is being reported as a serious insult to Senator McCain and senior citizens who should now turn on Obama for having one of his supporters make fun of a senior health issue. I am not making that up.

Can anyone say "sense of humor"?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:27 am 
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I just read that Obama's grandmother (who helped raise him) is seriously ill, and he's canceled his campaign events on Thursday and Friday and is flying to Hawaii to be with her. She's out of the hospital but "deteriorating." :(

Link

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“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:28 am 
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The Obama campaign will stop this Thursday and Friday so Senator Obama can fly to Hawaii to be at the bedside of his ailing grandmother who helped raise him as a child. All public appearances have been canceled.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:29 am 
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I doubt the campaign will stop. But Obama won't be there.

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“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:34 am 
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If I thought praying would help I would pray she could live till January. How bitter.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:26 am 
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It is very sad that Obama's grandmother is ill. Glad to see that he is taking a break to be with her, but I wonder how the conservative pundits (specifically them) will spin this. Will they be sympathetic? Or will they find something to attack? I hope not for the latter.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:54 am 
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Oh, Kerry! :nono: The joke is in bad taste, and has been around since Dole's campaign. Still, I can't imagine why it should matter to Obama's campaign.

So sad about Obama's grandmother. I hope she will pull through. The man has enough on his shoulders, he doesn't need the added burden.

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