What faith have you chosen?

[baby tuckoo]

No.

[vison]

No.

Then I have failed utterly.

[anthriel]

and also believe that God judges you on your intention-one of the aspects of Islam is that you don't have to be Muslim to go to heaven you just need to honestly believe in God and search for the truth

Man, if anything were ever to make me consider converting to another religion, it would be a sentence like that.


However, I can't give up Christ. Christian here, by birth and choice.

[Frelga]

Anthy, I think you are perfect in every way, by birth and choice.

Jewish here. By birth, though I grew up among atheists so that claiming my birthright was a choice, and not always an easy one. Reform Congregation, currently.

I believe that there is a reason God hides from us the full knowledge of Life, Universe and Everything yet there is nothing to stop us from seeing the trouble down here and do something about it. That's Tikkun Olam - healing the world, the essence of Progressive Judaism, IMO.

I do have to say that most of the people I know who were never given any religious education as children—who were left to "choose for themselves" because their parents were in conflict on the issue or didn't care—most of those people chose nothing.

Or, on the other extreme, they crave some spiritual structure and are drawn to the most rigid, fundamentalist forms of religion. Not EVERYBODY, obviously, but some.

[Cerin]

Not failed utterly, vison! Just in the first attempt.

I was a bit confused about whose sakes you were referring to at the end.

eta: I consider (rightly or wrongly I don't know) an atheist to be someone who has a somewhat firm and dedicated certainty that there is no God, as opposed to someone who has never had a reason or inclination to believe in God, but who isn't necessarily convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that there is no God.

So according to what you wrote, you sound more like the agnostic to me.

[Pearly Di]

As a Lutheran, I have to point out that I don't believe that I chose God, but rather that God chose me.

Quite right too.

Christian, Protestant.

I had several religious/spiritual experiences as a child, but I really date my spiritual journey from the age of 14. That's when I decided to become a Christian, take God seriously and stop mucking about. During my early teen years I found my parents' faith a terrible embarrassment.

In an odd way, I understand the atheist/rationalist stance, which totally precludes the supernatural. Personally I don't find it hard to believe in a supernatural element to faith, or the universe (if I were not a Christian I would still believe in a Creator) but I understand why others might.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I was brought up in a thoroughly agnostic, multi-religious household. My mother, sister and I were Jewish at least by birth. My stepfather was Catholic, at least by birth. And my step-sister and and step-brother were Protestant, at least by birth. But none of attended any religious ceremonies of any kind. (I should note that my current step-father is a fairly religious Jew, though my Mom did not marry him until after I was already an adult).

This upbringing really did leave me free to thoroughly choose my own faith. And my own faith is what I have chosen. But of course there have major influences on the development of that personal faith. The primary influences have reading, thinking about and discussing Tolkien's work, my involvement with African music and culture (and particularly the influence of my two main mentors, Babatunde Olatunji and Mamady Keita), and certain Reggae musicians, particularly a young Christian/Rastafarian who uses the stage name Luciano. I've also been strongly influenced by certain philosophers, particularly Kierkegaard.

I definitely believe in God (Allah, Yahweh, Ilúvatur, Oludamare, etc.). But my conception of God is infinite. As Mamady Keita often says, I believe in nature. I see God in everything that is around me. And as he says also, I believe in being good to people. As Baba Olatunji says, Love is the most powerful force in the world, and I believe that it is through Love that we become closest to God. I believe that Faith means loving God enough to trust in what we do not (and cannot) truly understand.

[vison]

I'm never sure what people mean by "the supernatural". I think different people mean different things when they say it.

My meaning of the word "supernatural" is "unexplained", and that leaves a lot of room. Given time, much will be explained. Will everything be explained? I have no way of knowing that, since "everything explained" implies (to me at least) that we, we humans I mean, will go along as we are indefinitely, and who can say if that will happen?

Our universe is a vast place and there are many mysteries therein. But they are mysteries open to our solving, since I firmly believe that "nature" (for lack of a better word) is just there and that there are no tricks, no false clues, no unreasonable events. There are some things we don't know yet, but given time, the will, and the freedom to do so, much that is presently unknown will become known.

I don't believe in "miracles". That kind of supernatural makes no sense to me: that the "laws" of the universe could be overturned upon the whim of a being. If that can be true, then I shrug my shoulders and say, "Then nothing matters. There is no point."

It's hard enough to find the "point" as it is, which is why I love that quotation from Chaim Potok that is my signature.

I believe that men created god, not the other way around. Our ancestors awoke and looked around and after they were fed, and warm around the fire, when they had language enough to tell each other how the mammoth finally fell or a new patch of edible roots was found, they began to think and talk about how things came to be. Obviously, if "things" were there, they got there somehow. The roots in the ground, where did they come from? Why? Did someone care about the people, wanting them to be fed and safe and warm? Who was that someone? And so on and so on.

Humans have this need to know. We speculate and ponder and besides, we want to be happy and good. Most of us, anyway. Living together, we need rules and laws. I'm not suprised that our ancestors created god. But that was then, and this is now.

There is no concept of god that I can accept, not even the most nebulous and spacey one. The Cause that set All in motion? Nope, although I don't see what difference it makes to say The First Cause or The Big Bang, either one is incomprehensible because you wonder what came before? (There was no before . . . or so they say.) But I most certainly cannot wrap any part of my mind around the kind of god that is a conscious being with power over anything. I know that people do, and that's fine for them, but it's beyond me.

Sorry to ramble.

[Inanna]

Seeing that Imp has given the definition and explanation, I am a Agnostic Hindu.

I am very comfortable with Hinduism as a religion, or way of life - whatever you want to call it. I like the concept of Brahma, being everywhere all around us.... and I love our mythology. I am a fence-sitter on various aspects of God, though.

More than anything, I am probably a Humanist, who routinely finds solace in Hinduism, while questioning it.

[elfshadow]

I am the child of two church musicians, so while I was raised in the Methodist faith and attended Sunday School, weekly services, was involved in youth group, went to Christian camps, ect., my perspective was different from some because my parents became involved in this particular Methodist church for financial reasons rather than spiritual ones. Once my mother left her job, she became a Unitarian Universalist, and my father currently studies theology but is much more interested in Hinduism and Islam than Christianity. To add to this complicated background, I currently attend a Catholic university--although it is a Jesuit university and the Jesuits are arguably one of the most liberal sects of the Catholic church. About half the student body here is Catholic.

In answer to the poll question, however, I consider myself to be an atheist--but one that fully understands the significant limitations of humans to understand the transcendental world. In other words, while my instinct and conscience tell me that a god or goddess or godlike being does not exist, the only tangible truth we have is that we just do not know.

I like the Socratic/Platonic way of understanding the world. Humans exist as a sort of tension between the external and material world of the body and the spiritual and transcendental world of the soul. The two "worlds" are, in essense, value systems. I don't go as far as Plato does in believing in the idea of forms, but I like the basic concept of the theory. The highest level that humans can reach, as far as we know, is the level of philosophical contemplation. In my mind, religious beliefs are simply one metaphorical way of explaining the spiritual world. The fact that I don't have a religion doesn't mean I'm any higher on the "ladder of education" that Plato describes to lead to contemplation, simply that the religious sort of explanation doesn't work for me. In the end, our purpose as human beings is not to discover the truth, but to try to discover the truth to the best of our abilities. Just because we don't know doesn't mean that we can't know or that we shouldn't attempt to find out.

Fundamentally, I believe that all religions are simply ways of trying to reach that highest level but that some people may better understand. And certainly, there is a great deal of diversity in understanding within religion itself. But religions should, to me, be more along the lines of spiritual tools to finding ultimate truths, if they exist, rather than a literal interpretation of the world and of human nature.

*gets off soapbox*

Reading this thread, I get the impression that there are no religious fundamentalists on the boards, and I certainly don't mean to lecture anybody--because from what I can tell, everyone here essentially believes more or less the same thing that I do about religion. We just go about believing in different ways.

[Primula Baggins]

Elsha, at least when it comes to Christianity, there is quite a range of beliefs on this board, from conservative to liberal. Not everyone participates in surveys like this. And it is true that conservative people can feel outnumbered because the liberal ones are so prolific (we type fast, it's part of the training ).

Just thought I'd mention that. I would not wish anyone to feel excluded or unrecognized. (That's part of the training, too.)

[elfshadow]

Thanks for pointing that out, Prim, and I am in no way condemning anyone's faith--I just happen to believe differently from some literalist or fundamentalist interpretations.

[Nin]

I read myself in vison's words, although I chose atheist - I don't believe that any form of God exists.

Like you, vison, I believe that man created God. In fact, I could even say that man is God, that on this earth, we are the only creatures which have the ability to conceive that our live and all live might end one day and has started one day. We can conceive time which is not time of our lives. This makes us "Gods" - I don't think I express myself very well. We are aware of the mystery of life and thus search an explanation for it - like in religion.

I don't derive any superiority from that, only responsibility from mankind for this earth.

I should not post so late...

[Frelga]

I should not post so late...

But it's always a pleasure to see you post.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

A Nin is never late. Nor is she early. She posts exactly when she means to.



(And I hope that she means to post more often.)

[Griffon64]

Christian, Protestant.

By birth, too, though I did choose my faith, as well. I searched through some other options for a while before settling - before, I can almost say, my faith chose me, as well.

[themary]

I voted Christian/Catholic (which I find redundant because to be Catholic you are already Christian). I was born and raised Catholic but I'm not sure the Church would want me anymore, I don't believe in the things they think I should believe in. They have broken my heart and brought shame to Catholics everywhere and they did a poor job of apologizing. Cover ups and pay-offs deserve more than a brush under the rug. But I digress.

I absolutely believe in God. I can't prove whether God exists or not but that's why I have faith. I choose to believe in a higher power.

This thread is very interesting indeed, I've enjoyed reading it.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

At yov's request, I have split off the discussion about Truth, Reason and Love to another thread.

[Glawariel]

I, too, am enjoying reading this thread (24 hours of internet access! woohoo!) and am finding it really interesting.

I am an Orthodox Jew. The point that remains difficult to pinpoint for me is where on the Orthodox spectrum I fall. Like I've mentioned in other threads, I would most likely identify myself as Centrist as opposed to, say, Modern or Liberal (although I'm somewhere on that side of the spectrum).

I was raised Modern Orthodox but because of there were not that many choices for Orthodox day schools when I was growing up I attended a more right wing (religiously) all girl school referred to as Beis Ya'akov. There was often a conflict of ideology when it came to certain religious issues most notably when it came to belief in the State of Israel and intersex mingling/social situations. It also manifests more superficially in one's dress- how long are the skirts (cuz G-d forbid anyone should wear pants!), how long are the sleeves, how high is the neckline and if she's married how much hair is being covered, if at all etc.

My family, I would say, is Religious Zionist or what is referred to in Israel as Da'ati Leumi and I think is the most accurate description of how I would identify today. I believe very strongly in the existence of the State of Israel and hope to live there in the future and to make aliyah. I'm also not at all bothered by an intermingling of the sexes in social situations as long as intermingling does not become intermingling. I'm also very commited to the observance of Jewish Law but don't always feel the need to be super stringent (referred to as machmir) especially where there is no necessity to do so. I also believe that there is what is referred to as the Halachik process which is basically that Jewish Law or the understanding of it is constantly evolving and has the ability to adapt, to a certain extent (although there isn't total felxibility), to the times in which we live.

I also believe in what is referred to in Hebrew as Torah min shamayim and Torah mi'sinai, which means the Divine origins of the Torah as a whole which includes the Bible (5 books of Moses, The Prophets and The Writings-Ketuvim) and all of the Oral Law, and the idea that the Torah was given to the Jewish People at Mt. Sinai after they left Egypt, repectively. (By the way, it's still not clear to me how to understand what is meant by Torah in the context of the latter and I'm not sure that I would define it there as referring to the Bible and the Written law and Oral law. Certainly the Biblical stuff but where it's not so clear is when referring to the Oral stuff. But that is a huge topic for an other time and an other thread).

What I think puts my in the more Modern camp is I believe in what's referred to as Torah U'mada which roughly translates as (hmmm...not sure how to define torah as it's meant in this context. I need to think more about that and get back to you) Torah and Science or the belief in the synthesis of Torah and secular wisdom. I also feel very strongly in the women's learning movement which gives all women the opportunity to learn Torah, Written and Oral Law ie Biblical, Talmudic and Rabbinic texts- inside, in depth, and on a high and challenging level which is something that the more right wing community would feel uncomfortable with and even disagree with especially when it comes to women learning talmud.

I have never had a crisis of faith but my understanding of hashgacha pratit or individual Divine providence has been called into question forcing me to rethink it's meaning to me (I'm sorry I keep using all of these hebrew terms. Sometimes it's easier for me to get the thought out that way and do the best I can to translate it. Please let me know if I'm not being clear in my explanations of the terms). It's not a function whether I still believe in G-d's providence in my own life because that seems to be remaining constant. However, when things in one's life go from black and white to grey it becomes a much more complex issue. It makes trying to find meaning in every aspect and every event in my life no longer such a clear and simple task. I just kind of have to be comfortable throwing up my arms and saying- I just can't understand why in the world that just happened- and be ok with that and move on which is waaaaaayyyyyy easier said than done.

Ok- yikes, that was really long so I'll just stop here and hope that next week I'll be able to get online for free (you never know..... )

[themary]

Interesting post Glawariel I love learning about the various aspects of other faiths and I find it interesting that we might practice different beliefs but some fundimental practices are similar.

Being raised Catholic women aren't allowed to say mass and from the above post women aren't allowed to learn the Torah. It shows that historically how women were excluded in that part of religion, and I would bet that if we looked at other religions we could find the same pattern.

I guess what I'm saying is no matter how different religions may seem they all have very similar qualities. I think people would be more humble if they too could see this.

I know this post is kind a "duh TM where have you been" but I never claimed to be the fastest horse out of the gate .