Whom do you admire?

[yovargas]

I was talking about Ang, our resident monkey. If you thought that was somehow an insult to Ang Sang Suu Kyi, I haven't the slightest idea who that person is so I certainly wasn't aiming anything at him/her.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

I recognize that you were not meaning to insult Ang Sang Suu Kyi, but that is how it comes across, since Ang was talking about her, not himself. As for not knowing who she is, I just stated who she is on the previous page of this thread. Even an unintended reference to a person from Southeast Asia as a monkey is offensive to me.

[yovargas]

Uhh, again, if the last post wasn't clear enough, the joke was referencing Angbasdil and how we often call him a monkey. And not having read the description of him/her, I didn't have a clue about who they were and still don't, aside from apparently being from Asia.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Uhh, again, if the last post wasn't clear enough, the joke was referencing Angbasdil and how we often call him a monkey.

I understand that, yov. I know that you would never make an intentional racial slur. Nonetheless, in the context that the statement was made, I found it offensive. I am speaking purely as an individual poster, not in any official capacity.

And not having read the description of him/her, I didn't have a clue about who they were and still don't, aside from apparently being from Asia.

Perhaps you should take a moment and read the description of her that I posted. She is worth knowing about.

(And just for the record, I believe that her name is actually spelt Aung San Suu Kyi.)

[ToshoftheWuffingas]

Aung San Soo Kyi has been under house arrest since 1989! In 1990 while under house arrest the party she leads won the national elections so the elected leader of that country has been imprisoned for 18 years. Indeed someone to respect and an outstanding proponent of non-violence, something we have to cherish.
Ang is a monkey but I respect him too.

Willi Brandt rocked! Er, he was not a monkey as far as I know.
Yov is a hippo.

[Inanna]

I honestly believe that people are too imperfect to be elevated to the level of "heroes" - if we think otherwise about a given person, it's probably because we just don't know enough about them yet.

To me, "hero" is too high a standard for a human to live up to. It's better left to ancient mythology and modern storybooks. I find it safer to look for discrete aspects of people that I can admire. Anything else is setting myself up for disappointment when the hero inevitably fails to live up to his or her impossible burden.

Well, that would depend on the definition of "hero", would it not? If we define "hero" as someone who does their best for the betterment of life, society, nation irrespective of their faults... then you can have heroes.

[Lurker]

I honestly believe that people are too imperfect to be elevated to the level of "heroes" - if we think otherwise about a given person, it's probably because we just don't know enough about them yet.

To me, "hero" is too high a standard for a human to live up to. It's better left to ancient mythology and modern storybooks. I find it safer to look for discrete aspects of people that I can admire. Anything else is setting myself up for disappointment when the hero inevitably fails to live up to his or her impossible burden.

Perhaps one of the greatest disappointments of growing up is accepting that every human is fallible, even the ones we especially place on a pedestal growing up - parents, priests, rabbis, doctors, teachers, and so on. Why relive that disappointment with this adult-designation of "hero"? Even though "hero" may not imply "infallible," it does connote an expectation that the "hero" is well-roundedly worthy of praise, IMO.

We attended mass today and what made me smile and nod was when the priest during a homily said even Saints were sinners before they became Saints. We, humans, try to find fault intentionally or unintentionally at other people that most of the time the unflattering stuff dished out againts them overshadow the good that they have done whether in politics or in real life. Nobody is perfect, that's why everybody can achieve godliness even "sinners".

Heroes are not faultless, you wouldn't be human if you don't make mistakes once in a while. My hero is JPII and even if I learned years from now that he was a sinner I wouldn't change my mind. My dad is my hero even if we don't see eye to eye in most things I still think he's worthy of hero worship even if I wouldn't say it in his face.

[Angbasdil]

This is probably none of my business, but it was my smart-ass remark that started it, so I'll address it.

V-man,
If you know that yovi was talking about me, and that I don't mind being called a monkey, then why get offended? It seems to me that there are too many truly offensive things out there to go wasting your indignation on something like this. I mean, c'mon dude - we got almost two years of presidential campaigning to get through. You gotta learn to pace yourself.

However, I am offended by the notion that monkeys can't be on the list. If Maria can put Jim the Freakin' Wonder Dog on her list, then monkeys got a right to be on the list, too.


As for the Asian chick, if here name is spelled "Aung", then I take back what I said about her. I'll just have to be impressed by her accomplishments instead.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

V-man,
If you know that yovi was talking about me, and that I don't mind being called a monkey, then why get offended?

Because, my dear Ang, (among other reasons) there ARE people who read this forum who do not know the intimate history of all of our personal interactions, who would have no way of interpreting yov's comment as nothing other then a racial slur, even though we know he did not intend it that way. There is a definitely a place for that type of joking. This was not it.

[Angbasdil]

Yeah, I get that part. But I'm not talking about some hypothetical somebody getting their theoretical panties in a metaphorical knot.
I'm talking about the actual Voronwë.

Yes, yov's post could easily be misinterpreted. And when someone makes such a post, by all means point out to them that it could be taken the wrong way. I got no problem with that. But I don't get why you were offended. If you knew what he meant, then why take offense? Just because some hypothetical somebody else might?

I just don't get that.
I think I'm incapable of getting it, actually.
So I'm done with this if you are.

Y'all go back to talking about ... whatever it was we were talking about.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

No, I'm done, too. Except to reiterate that it would be worth familarizing oneself with Aung San Soo Kyi, because she is worthy of respect.

[Democritus]

Who do I personally admire?

Well many people, but right now the name near the tip of my tongue is Ayaan Hirst Ali who is one of the brave Muslim women to have escaped the oppressive environment of sharia law and arranged marriages in Somalia and Saudi Arabia and have spoken out against it when they have arrived in the west.

Her autobiography "Infidel" is eye-opening and haunting and it is her honesty regarding the challenges that women in Islam face in trying to reform Islam from the inside that remind me a lot of Mary Woolstonecraft railing against church mandated oppresion of women in the West a couple of centures ago. Ali's book "Caged Virgin" in particular reminds me of Woolstonecrafts "A vindication of the rights of women" with its focus on the need for female education, equality in sexual practices and marriage and freedom to make choices not mandated by their husbands, fathers and brothers.

More power to her and those in India like her who are fighting similar battles in Hinduism.

[Cerin]

I recently watched 'An Inconvenient Truth.' I admire Al Gore (well, I did before, but even moreso now).

[melianndoriath]

Whom do I admire? There are so many folk for so many different reasons. Here is one who is a friend of mine:
Dot-she bore 2 children and adopted 10 from various racial/ethnic backgrounds. Some of the children have had health problems or are mentally challanged. The family gleaned the fields of local farms and she canned alot of veggies and fruits, so that they would have enough nutritious foods. She is a fabulous cook!
He was a teacher and part-time preacher, so their income was not very much for such a large family. Now Dot is in her 60's, with health problems and her husband as well. They are now raising their grandchild, aged 10, who has ADHD, along with the youngest 2 (aged 21 and 22). Dot is an angel. She has a warm heart and her kindness in apparent in all the kind things that she does for others. I hope to be like her one day. I know that there are folk like her in heaven.


Meli

[truehobbit]

I also find that a real feeling of admiration usually comes for people you see in daily life.

Welcome to HoF, Meli!

[melianndoriath]

Thanks, truehobbit!

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Hi, Meli. Your friend sounds really special. Some people just seem to be born to give of themselves. Or maybe they become that way. Either way, it makes them very special.

I get the feeling that you are one of those people, too.

[melianndoriath]

How sweet of you, Voronwë!! Thanks !!
I try.
Several months ago I took a class at church entitled Discovering God's Vision for Your Life. It's designed to help you find your spiritual gifts. In one of the exercises, we were to list 5 people that we admire-of any time or place, even fictional characters. Beside each name, we listed specific reasons why we admire them. Aragorn was my #4, behind my grandmother, beloved cousin and spiritual mentor/friend.
Not only do I sw00n over him, I admire him greatly as well. That's probably a huge reason that I DO sw00n for a minor character in a very looong story.

[themary]

I have to admit I am shocked at how harsh some of you people are. But that's the beauty of being able to have your own opinion .

I guess I should comment on this list o' people first.

1. Mother Teresa- Her pros out weigh her cons (how much good have YOU done in the world? That's what I thought. He who casts the first stone and all that)
2. Martin Luther King, Jr.- I'd love to shake his hand
3. John F. Kennedy- He handled certain situations pretty well. I don't go to bed thanking my stars for JFK.
4. Albert Einstein- He's pretty cool
5. Helen Keller- For overcoming her deaf/dumb/blindness is quite impressive.
6. Franklin D. Roosevelt- He's rumored to be on of America's greatest leaders for how he handled WWII. I think he's pretty cool.
7. Billy Graham- Don't know much about him but he did religious stuffs and is now old.
8. Pope John Paul II- I admire him greatly. You try running the Catholic church YIKES!
9. Eleanor Roosevelt- She did some stuff but I don't know enough to put her on my personal list.
10. Winston Churchill- Meh, don't know enough about him.
11. Dwight Eisenhower- Meh.
12. Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis- She had some fashion sense I'll tell ya that!
13. Mahatma Gandhi- Simply amazing. Much respect.
14. Nelson Mandela- Don't know the bad things he's done I've only heard what bad things were done to him.
15. Ronald Reagan- Mixed personal reviews
16. Henry Ford- I'm a Chevy girl myself
17. Bill Clinton- Can we say HUGE joke. He was a president that didn't do much and that's why people thought he was great. The economy was great because it was on an upswing, it had nothing to do with Clinton. He chose to stand by idley and shove cigars into interns. Hooray for Clinton *barf*
18. Margaret Thatcher- Didn't she have bad teeth? All I know of her is what Austin Powers told me


NOW people I want to add.

My Mom. You all might not know her but she's a dang fine woman and did a swell job raising my brothers and I. AND she was Catholic.

The lady formerly known as Princess Diana. I have always admired Lady Di for the good works she did and she deserves to be recognized.

John Hughes for making my childhood that much better and for loving Chicago as much as I do.

Billy Joel for singing political songs that I grew up loving and now understand.

Beethoven. Hello a deaf composer who made awesome music.

Andrew Lloyd Weber for helping me fall in love with theater.

edited for a huge error in composers d'oh!

[axordil]

Mozart. Hello a deaf composer who made awesome music.

Psst...Beethoven. But I like them both.