Let's reschedule Christmas
Vison, that was wonderful. Thank you for sharing that with us. Never have I seen someone describe the true meaning of Christmas so warmly and so eloquently.
"I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived." - HDT
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truehobbit
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What a beautiful post, vison, thank you! 
Wampus -
I agree with what most people here said, that inspite of all the commercialism, you can make Christmas meaningful for yourself by doing only the things you find fulfilling and not doing things that don't make sense to you.
Some people here gave examples of how religious songs are very much banned from Christmas concerts in the US - that's really sad, but it can also be a problem the other way round, I think. What you get here, is "Silent Night" and other religious and earnest Christmas songs droning all day through the speakers while people get drunk on mulled wine at the Christmas markets - if you get too much of that it makes it very hard to enjoy the songs in more serious context.
Jewel, I liked that poem a lot!
Wampus -
I agree with what most people here said, that inspite of all the commercialism, you can make Christmas meaningful for yourself by doing only the things you find fulfilling and not doing things that don't make sense to you.
Some people here gave examples of how religious songs are very much banned from Christmas concerts in the US - that's really sad, but it can also be a problem the other way round, I think. What you get here, is "Silent Night" and other religious and earnest Christmas songs droning all day through the speakers while people get drunk on mulled wine at the Christmas markets - if you get too much of that it makes it very hard to enjoy the songs in more serious context.
Jewel, I liked that poem a lot!
but being a cheerful hobbit he had not needed hope, as long as despair could be postponed.
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WampusCat
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Just to clarify...
I did not mean that I would not be able to find meaning in Christmas. It's more that in current American culture the very idea of Christmas has been both inflated and watered down to the point that it seems unrecognizable at times.
I can find the real Christmas because I know it and have experienced it outside the commercial razzle-dazzle. Not everyone is so lucky. Of course people experience Christmas in varied ways, and I'm not saying my way is the only way. But it has a depth and joy that transcends what the marketers are trying to sell.
I did not mean that I would not be able to find meaning in Christmas. It's more that in current American culture the very idea of Christmas has been both inflated and watered down to the point that it seems unrecognizable at times.
I can find the real Christmas because I know it and have experienced it outside the commercial razzle-dazzle. Not everyone is so lucky. Of course people experience Christmas in varied ways, and I'm not saying my way is the only way. But it has a depth and joy that transcends what the marketers are trying to sell.
Many years ago, Christmas was taken from me by force.
No. It really really was.
JW's don't do Christmas. At. All.
When I was little, we did celebrate. I remember the presents (I was little, presents were a big deal) but my most vivid and special memories were of family and traditions. The house full of people I loved. Christmas cookies left out for Santa but eaten the next morning by a baby brother. Keeping a special secret that was what we were giving to my grandparents for Christmas.
My mother had boxes and boxes of ornaments her mother had given her. I think when the two sisters grew up and moved out, my grandmother divided all the family heirloom ornaments between them and bought all new for herself. Thus, my mother had a story to tell about each ornament as she drew them from the box. I only remember being impatient to get to the next ornament as each was more beautiful than the last. How I wish I remember those stories; the ornaments are long gone.
My grandmother made each member of the family a stocking of felt with sequins and beads, our names embroidered on each. My mother had a big collection of records just for Christmas, beautiful music that instilled a love of Christmas Carols deep deep in my heart which never went away, even when a new religion said they were evil.
My mother made cookies and bars, we put them out for Santa. I still remember the year they forgot to eat those left out and my little brother got up early and ate them anyway. My grandmother made a Christmas Yule log cake that was to die for, I've never had fudge frosting like the one she made anywhere else.
As you can see, I really don't remember or even care about the gifts. I remember the people, sites, sounds, smells and feelings.
When I was eight, all of that went away. My parents converted. The ornaments went to my aunt, some of them. The rest were burned along with the stockings and other decorations we had. Somehow, mom's records never went to be burned. I imagine she has them today, squirreled way somewhere, but I never heard them again except in my dreams.
My grandmother died and the recipe for the Yule log died with her. My aunt and cousins were so hurt by the cruel treatment my parents gave them when they converted that they'll barely have anything to do with me and my children even though we live less than twenty miles from one another.
Now I do with my own family but without my parents and without those stories, my mom's traditions and those heirlooms. I celebrate with Cowboy's family but in the midst of the joy there's always sadness as they have such stories, such rich traditions, such remembrances and I have.... nothing to bring.
Except enthusiasm!!! Athrabeth put it how I could not. OR maybe I could, but I've gone on long enough already? One thing I would add is that I love how Christmas reminds me that God uses unusual people to do His bidding. A teenage mother would never be who we would choose for the birth of a great King, yet God knew her heart and that she was perfect for the job.
I believe in Santa and the elves and lie awake listening for them myself.
I like to give presents and love to receive, but even if there were no gifts, I would love Christmas. Still, for me it is NOT ABOUT STUFF!!!
I take the children for a ride in the suburban. We drink hot cocoa and eat christmas cookies, listen to Christmas music and look at houses lit up and decorated. I bake madly and give out goodies to friends and family, neighbor and stranger. I volunteer at shelters and foodbanks and carry change for my kids to give the bellringers. I go to Christmas Eve Services wherever I am and cry like a baby. I love being near people I love and who love me.. and if I dind't get a darn thing, if this event took place in December or July, it would still be just as wonderful.
I think keeping Christmas what it should be for us is all about personal responsbility. You choose who you let the season and it's hype affect (effect?) you, you show your children how to make those same choices. Then the world can wail as much as it likes, you and yours will be safe and cozy in the realm of your creation.
No. It really really was.
JW's don't do Christmas. At. All.
When I was little, we did celebrate. I remember the presents (I was little, presents were a big deal) but my most vivid and special memories were of family and traditions. The house full of people I loved. Christmas cookies left out for Santa but eaten the next morning by a baby brother. Keeping a special secret that was what we were giving to my grandparents for Christmas.
My mother had boxes and boxes of ornaments her mother had given her. I think when the two sisters grew up and moved out, my grandmother divided all the family heirloom ornaments between them and bought all new for herself. Thus, my mother had a story to tell about each ornament as she drew them from the box. I only remember being impatient to get to the next ornament as each was more beautiful than the last. How I wish I remember those stories; the ornaments are long gone.
My grandmother made each member of the family a stocking of felt with sequins and beads, our names embroidered on each. My mother had a big collection of records just for Christmas, beautiful music that instilled a love of Christmas Carols deep deep in my heart which never went away, even when a new religion said they were evil.
My mother made cookies and bars, we put them out for Santa. I still remember the year they forgot to eat those left out and my little brother got up early and ate them anyway. My grandmother made a Christmas Yule log cake that was to die for, I've never had fudge frosting like the one she made anywhere else.
As you can see, I really don't remember or even care about the gifts. I remember the people, sites, sounds, smells and feelings.
When I was eight, all of that went away. My parents converted. The ornaments went to my aunt, some of them. The rest were burned along with the stockings and other decorations we had. Somehow, mom's records never went to be burned. I imagine she has them today, squirreled way somewhere, but I never heard them again except in my dreams.
My grandmother died and the recipe for the Yule log died with her. My aunt and cousins were so hurt by the cruel treatment my parents gave them when they converted that they'll barely have anything to do with me and my children even though we live less than twenty miles from one another.
Now I do with my own family but without my parents and without those stories, my mom's traditions and those heirlooms. I celebrate with Cowboy's family but in the midst of the joy there's always sadness as they have such stories, such rich traditions, such remembrances and I have.... nothing to bring.
Except enthusiasm!!! Athrabeth put it how I could not. OR maybe I could, but I've gone on long enough already? One thing I would add is that I love how Christmas reminds me that God uses unusual people to do His bidding. A teenage mother would never be who we would choose for the birth of a great King, yet God knew her heart and that she was perfect for the job.
I believe in Santa and the elves and lie awake listening for them myself.
I like to give presents and love to receive, but even if there were no gifts, I would love Christmas. Still, for me it is NOT ABOUT STUFF!!!
I take the children for a ride in the suburban. We drink hot cocoa and eat christmas cookies, listen to Christmas music and look at houses lit up and decorated. I bake madly and give out goodies to friends and family, neighbor and stranger. I volunteer at shelters and foodbanks and carry change for my kids to give the bellringers. I go to Christmas Eve Services wherever I am and cry like a baby. I love being near people I love and who love me.. and if I dind't get a darn thing, if this event took place in December or July, it would still be just as wonderful.
I think keeping Christmas what it should be for us is all about personal responsbility. You choose who you let the season and it's hype affect (effect?) you, you show your children how to make those same choices. Then the world can wail as much as it likes, you and yours will be safe and cozy in the realm of your creation.
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Voronwë the Faithful
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truehobbit
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Thanks for this wonderful post, IE!
It makes me wonder what can make people turn round so completely, like they seem to do when they join Jehova's Witnesses.
But don't say you have nothing to bring - I think you have a lot to bring to your family's Christmas - and a wonderful family of your own to create a history of Christmas ornaments with!
A Merry Christmas to you and yours!
It makes me wonder what can make people turn round so completely, like they seem to do when they join Jehova's Witnesses.
But don't say you have nothing to bring - I think you have a lot to bring to your family's Christmas - and a wonderful family of your own to create a history of Christmas ornaments with!
A Merry Christmas to you and yours!
but being a cheerful hobbit he had not needed hope, as long as despair could be postponed.
There is always hope, Wampus
I didn't tell the story to make anybody feel sorry for me... just to maybe give everyone who is feeling the pressure a story of real joy of Christmas. Mine is a real joy and it's not in giving or getting stuff, it's family, beauty, faith, miracles, love, hope and peace.
Christmas was taken from me, it's true. Would I trade my experiences for what I have today? Not for a second would I ever consider it!
It should also be said that TORCers together with other friends gave me and mine the most magical Christmas we ever had. Though we may have moved on to other sites and communities in some cases, I'll never forget that kindness and the incredible joy after a time of such hardship and sorrow. It was truly truly inspirational.
I have to do a write up about Christmas Traditions and the US observance of the holiday for work today. I had to do Hanukkah and managed to make that one somewhat entertaining. I'm having major trouble keeping it from sounding hugly hugely boring.
Wish me luck and if you know any amusing anecdotes, please send them my way.
I didn't tell the story to make anybody feel sorry for me... just to maybe give everyone who is feeling the pressure a story of real joy of Christmas. Mine is a real joy and it's not in giving or getting stuff, it's family, beauty, faith, miracles, love, hope and peace.
Christmas was taken from me, it's true. Would I trade my experiences for what I have today? Not for a second would I ever consider it!
It should also be said that TORCers together with other friends gave me and mine the most magical Christmas we ever had. Though we may have moved on to other sites and communities in some cases, I'll never forget that kindness and the incredible joy after a time of such hardship and sorrow. It was truly truly inspirational.
I have to do a write up about Christmas Traditions and the US observance of the holiday for work today. I had to do Hanukkah and managed to make that one somewhat entertaining. I'm having major trouble keeping it from sounding hugly hugely boring.
Wish me luck and if you know any amusing anecdotes, please send them my way.
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Sister Magpie
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That is such a sad story IE. The happy ending, though, is that you have Christmas back now. I mean, there are plenty of things that you lost, but there are always things that are lost. You can build your own traditions and know that your children will be full of traditions. You can't really get it "wrong."
-m
-m
"Brooding over quirks of mad Creation,
And puppets' dreams."
And puppets' dreams."
Not just America WC, we too have to suffer the commercial reality that is the modern Christmass. I am not sure about over there but we get Christmas stuff in the shops in August, carols and jingleing bells by November and December is a month of drunks on the train smelling of too much turkey and covered in tinselWampusCat wrote:It's more that in current American culture the very idea of Christmas has been both inflated and watered down to the point that it seems unrecognizable at times.
Not sure I get the 'real' meaning fo Christmas, grew up in secular family and all that. One thing that has always struck me though is that it is the one season when people in the workplace get on with each other. Not sure why, but that has to be a good thing
Maybe if the season does have any purpose it is to remind each other that its ok to be nice to people, regardless.
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JewelSong
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Sounds good to me. We can always stand to be reminded that in the end, all we have is each other.Dindraug wrote:One thing that has always struck me though is that it is the one season when people in the workplace get on with each other. Not sure why, but that has to be a good thing
Maybe if the season does have any purpose it is to remind each other that its ok to be nice to people, regardless.
"Christmas Day will always be
Just as long as we have we."
"Live! Live! Live! Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death!" - Auntie Mame
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Voronwë the Faithful
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I don't have anything to add. I just wanted to repeat this again.Dindraug wrote:Maybe if the season does have any purpose it is to remind each other that its ok to be nice to people, regardless.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Rowanberry
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Yikes. Thank goodness it isn't quite as bad here yet - the Christmas stuff doesn't appear to the shops until in November.Dindraug wrote: Not just America WC, we too have to suffer the commercial reality that is the modern Christmass. I am not sure about over there but we get Christmas stuff in the shops in August, carols and jingleing bells by November and December is a month of drunks on the train smelling of too much turkey and covered in tinsel
IE, you probably can't help your story making others feel sorry for you. But maybe just because you were forbidden to celebrate Christmas for so long, you now can really enjoy it in a very different way from those who have been numbed by the commercial bombarding and customs that may already have started to feel meaningless. You have more to bring to your family's Christmas than you believe!
For my part, I wish that your Christmas will be a joyful one.
See the world as your self.
Have faith in the way things are.
Love the world as your self;
then you can care for all things.
~ Lao Tzu
It's an interesting idea for Christians to change the date we celebrate Christ's birth.
But...nah. I don't think I'd want to do that. It's true I struggle with commercialism and materialism. It's more true that I just struggle with wanting to get all of the "stuff" done that I'm supposed to do--cards, a family letter, decorations, caroling, church activities, community service, shopping, etc.
However, in the midst of all of that, we just try very hard to remain focused on why we're trying to do all of those things--to share the joy we have in our hearts because of the birth of our Savior. If others celebrate Christmas just out a spirit of love and goodwill, then that is a good thing, too, and their business. We celebrate it because of Jesus.
What a wonderful time of year to just go a little wild in the joy department, a sort of extravagant outpouring of the blessings and exuberant life we have in Christ. We want it to be lavish because God is lavish in His love toward us. We want it to be overflowing with wonderful things because He has been overflowing in His blessings toward us.
Ah anyway. It's tempting to get discouraged when the world twists Christmas into something it's not, but, then, we shouldn't be surprised either. There is a really great excerpt I used to have by Steve Brown (KeyLife Ministries) about this, about how it's great that non-Christians celebrate Easter and Chrismas. I cannot find it now, though. (I think I gave it to my pastor, actually.)
Lali
Edit for spelling
But...nah. I don't think I'd want to do that. It's true I struggle with commercialism and materialism. It's more true that I just struggle with wanting to get all of the "stuff" done that I'm supposed to do--cards, a family letter, decorations, caroling, church activities, community service, shopping, etc.
However, in the midst of all of that, we just try very hard to remain focused on why we're trying to do all of those things--to share the joy we have in our hearts because of the birth of our Savior. If others celebrate Christmas just out a spirit of love and goodwill, then that is a good thing, too, and their business. We celebrate it because of Jesus.
What a wonderful time of year to just go a little wild in the joy department, a sort of extravagant outpouring of the blessings and exuberant life we have in Christ. We want it to be lavish because God is lavish in His love toward us. We want it to be overflowing with wonderful things because He has been overflowing in His blessings toward us.
Ah anyway. It's tempting to get discouraged when the world twists Christmas into something it's not, but, then, we shouldn't be surprised either. There is a really great excerpt I used to have by Steve Brown (KeyLife Ministries) about this, about how it's great that non-Christians celebrate Easter and Chrismas. I cannot find it now, though.
(I think I gave it to my pastor, actually.)Lali
Edit for spelling
Last edited by Lalaith on Sat Dec 17, 2005 12:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
God likes parties.
That's my profound theological statement of the day.
I have no problem with celebrating the Incarnation of our Saviour at the time of the midwinter festival, and I have no problem whatsoever with other people of other beliefs celebrating the same festival in whichever way they choose.
I think it's cool that people still want to pop into church at this season and at my church we try to make the Christmas services as welcome and inspiring as possible. 
We have all the traditional music which people like (and which I love), plus drama, dance, poems and meditational graphics.
I could really really wish for the revolting consumerism to disappear altogether, which has nothing to do with anything. We have so much, and we waste so much of it.
This year I want to celebrate with my family and my friends and make it a truly joyous time.
I also want to focus on those parts of the world where there is terrible suffering, where people will not be able to celebrate because they are simply trying to survive.
Christmas is a hard time for people who remember the loss of loved ones. So I want to share as much Christmas joy with them as I can.
PS. Lali, that sig pic is amazing. Reminds me of Welsh woods!! Very Ent-ish.
That's my profound theological statement of the day.
I have no problem with celebrating the Incarnation of our Saviour at the time of the midwinter festival, and I have no problem whatsoever with other people of other beliefs celebrating the same festival in whichever way they choose.
I think it's cool that people still want to pop into church at this season
and at my church we try to make the Christmas services as welcome and inspiring as possible. We have all the traditional music which people like (and which I love), plus drama, dance, poems and meditational graphics. I could really really wish for the revolting consumerism to disappear altogether, which has nothing to do with anything. We have so much, and we waste so much of it.
This year I want to celebrate with my family and my friends and make it a truly joyous time.
I also want to focus on those parts of the world where there is terrible suffering, where people will not be able to celebrate because they are simply trying to survive.
Christmas is a hard time for people who remember the loss of loved ones. So I want to share as much Christmas joy with them as I can.
PS. Lali, that sig pic is amazing. Reminds me of Welsh woods!! Very Ent-ish.
"Frodo undertook his quest out of love - to save the world he knew from disaster at his own expense, if he could ... "
Letter no. 246, The Collected Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
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Letter no. 246, The Collected Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien
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)