Chanukkah

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truehobbit
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Chanukkah

Post by truehobbit »

I just peeked at our calendar here and saw an entry that it's Chanukkah today!

I would have expected it closer to Christmas, but that's because of the vagaries of the moon calendar, isn't it?

Someone one TORC explained to me once that it is to commemorate that at one time the oil for the lamps in the Temple was supposed to last only for a short time, but then it lasted for seven (?) days - and because of that candles are lit on a Menorah every day (one more every day?) - so, the celebration lasts for several days (?) and the children also get presents.

I know I could just as well look it up on wikipedia, but I thought it would be nicer to ask people here. :)

So, how much did I get right and how much did I get wrong here?

Does anyone here celebrate? What do you do, and why? What does the holiday mean to you?

And is it a coincidence that this is a feast of light (for so it seems to me) that takes place in mid-winter? Or is it meant to have a similar effect as Christmas, to remind people of the presence of light at the darkest time of the year?
The gift-giving particularly does seem to parallel Christmas.

Happy Chanukkah to all who celebrate! :)
but being a cheerful hobbit he had not needed hope, as long as despair could be postponed.
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Post by Jnyusa »

Thanks, Hobby. Yes, tonight (Wednesday) is the last night of Chanukkah.

It lasts for eight days, celebrating the Maccabee revolt against the Greek occupation of Israel in the second century BCE. The oil was used to purify the Jewish Temple which had been used as a Greek temple by the Greeks.

Supposedly they only found enough oil to burn the candles for one day, but the oil miraculously lasted through the eight days of purification required.

We have traditionally celebrated Chanukkah every year by lighting candles but not by giving gifts. Because there have always been people who celebrate Christmas in the family, we save the gift exchange for Christmas when everyone can do it together. Not everyone who celebrates Christmas actually goes to Church (my sister's family and my son-in-law's family) so Christmas has become the secular catch-everybody holiday.

When my children were little, I did give them a small present on the 8th night. The traditional gift for Chanukkah is 'gelt' - money. Coins. Or, in one family I know, the 8th night Chanukkah gift is always oranges! I guess because citrus fruit is more special in the winter. If my youngest daughter were living at home this year, we would probably get a box of tangelos* for Chanukkah. Her favorite fruit - and this is the time of year they get imported from .... somewhere.

Baking is also supposed to be a big deal but years ago there was a popular uprising to stop me from doing that so I don't do it any longer. :)

Chanukkah is not a High Holiday. It's not one of the holidays commanded by the Torah but rather the commemoration of a later historical event, like Purim (saving of the Iraqi Jews by Queen Esther) or Tisha b'Av (destruction of the Temple).

I don't believe that lighting the Chanukkah lights is a mitzvah (a duty) but Frelga can correct me on that. She knows the laws and history much better than I do. But it has always been a fun holiday for children (as Purim is) and coming so close to Christmas it lends itself to exploitation by retailers.

Jn

* Ach! not tangelos - clementines! They've been in our supermarket for about two weeks now, and I just saw an ad for them on TV
Last edited by Jnyusa on Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by nerdanel »

Jnyusa wrote: I don't believe that lighting the Chanukkah lights is a mitzvah (a duty) but Frelga can correct me on that. She knows the laws and history much better than I do.
I'm not Frelga, it turns out, but from what I understand...

The instruction to light the Chanukah candles is a mitzvah, but one instructed by the rabbis rather than found in the original Torah and related back to God through Deut. 17:11. The reading I've done on the subject has shown me that even the purpose of the mitzvah is unclear - commemoration? Publicizing (i.e. placing the menorah in a public place where others can see it)?

Of course this gives rise to the question of "bal tosif" - whether this violates the prohibition against adding to the 613 original mitzvot. This apparently has given rise to more debate than I can fathom about the propriety of rabbinic mitzvot, starting from Talmudic times. I have not the knowledge (of Aramaic, forget anything else) or the skill to parse the argument, which gets very legalistic.

Still, one of the less onerous of the mitzvot for most of the Jews that I know. ;)

ETA In the years I was studying for conversion, I actually did not celebrate Chanukah. In essence, in my experience much of the non-Orthodox Jewish community really does view the holiday as a stand-in for Christmas, as a consolation for Jewish children during a holiday season when their Christian friends are getting presents, or something similar. The Orthodox in my limited exposure to their customs are different, but that is because they take holidays that most Jews and non-Jews have never even heard of very seriously, so Chanukah receives its due recognition from them.
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Post by Jnyusa »

Thanks, tp!

Yes, it is not an onerous duty.

(By process of elimination we have now determined that you are neither Frelga nor Imp.) ;)
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Post by Frelga »

Today? :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

* recovers from a mild heart attack *

Hanukah starts on December 25th this year. The Chanukkah bazaar at my synagogue is not even until Sunday.

All right, I can breathe again. Hobby, you do not know you danger, asking these questions where Frelga roams. :D Although I don't deserve Jn's compliments, I do Google quite well.

From Aish.com
Hanuka dates back nearly 22 centuries, to the successful Jewish revolt against Antiochus IV, one of the line of Syrian-Greek monarchs who ruled the northern branch of Alexander the Great's collapsed empire. Alexander had been respectful of the Jews' monotheistic religion, but Antiochus was determined to impose Hellenism, with its pagan gods and its cult of the body, throughout his domains. When he met resistance in Judea, he made Judaism illegal.

Sabbath observance, circumcision, and the study of Torah were banned on pain of death. A statue of Zeus was installed in the Temple in Jerusalem, and swine were sacrificed before it. Some Jews embraced the new order and willingly abandoned the God and faith of their ancestors. Those who wouldn't were cruelly punished. [...]

The fight to reclaim Jewish religious autonomy began in 167 BC. In the town of Modi'in, an elderly priest named Mattathias refused a Syrian order to sacrifice to an idol. When an apostate Jew stepped forward to comply, Mattathias killed the man and tore down the altar. Then he and his five sons took to the hills and launched a guerrilla war against the armies of the empire.

When Mattathias died, his third son, Judah Maccabee, took command. He and his band of fighters were impossibly outnumbered, yet they won one miraculous victory after another. In 164 BC, they recaptured the Temple, which they cleansed and purified and rededicated to God. On the 25th day of the Jewish month of Kislev, the menorah -- the candelabra symbolizing the divine presence -- was rekindled. For eight days, throngs of Jews celebrated the Temple's restoration. "All the people prostrated themselves," records the book of Maccabees, "worshipping and praising Heaven that their cause had prospered."
Tradition maintains that as the Temple was re-dedicated, there was only enough purified oil to burn for a day, while it took eight days to press and prepare more oil. In an act of faith, they lit the menorah anyway, and it burned miraculously for eight days until more oil was prepared. Hence the tradition of eating foods fried in oil, and of lighting candles for eight days of the celebration.

As far as I can tell, it is pretty much by chance that Chanukah falls in winter. If chance you call it. It's not always Midwinter, due, as TH supposed, to the vagaries of the lunar/solar calendar, and can begin as early as Thanksgiving.

Is there more? Oh yes, there's plenty more to say, but you don't want to encourage me with undue patience. :D
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Post by Jnyusa »

Good grief! I've been googling all over, and found Chanukkah at the beginning of December everyplace I looked, even double-checking to make sure the year was correct. (We're no longer members of a synagogue so I don't get a calendar automatically.) Now I can feel like a real idiot because it seemed to me this was much too early ... all the holidays are late this year .. but we dutifully lit our candles having no contrary evidence.

I have to generate a Jewish calendar on my computer.

Frelga, is Dec 25 the first night?

Jn
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Frelga, I would be interested in more. :)

I particularly like the fact that you spelt the word Chanukkah four different ways in the course of your post, and still didn't exhaust all of the possibilities. :P
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Post by Frelga »

LOL, Jn, I am perfectly capable of missing all eight days, and in fact experienced five minutes of pure panic as I saw your post. :rofl:

Right, 25th is the first night. Now you get to do it all over again!

Voronwë, ask and... you might regret it. :D
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Post by Teremia »

Feel better, Frelga and Jn! We usually light about 37.5% of the required candles, largely because (1) like so many, we can't read calendars properly, and (2) it takes us the first five days to figure out where we put the menorah last year.

The Jewish side of the family is very, very, very secular. Seders go very quickly, because Uncle L. insists we edit out all mention of God.

:help:
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Post by Jnyusa »

Teremia :D

Yes, I am the official 'summarizer' at our Seders.

Ah, well. There's plenty of candles!

Jn
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Post by vison »

Teremia wrote:Feel better, Frelga and Jn! We usually light about 37.5% of the required candles, largely because (1) like so many, we can't read calendars properly, and (2) it takes us the first five days to figure out where we put the menorah last year.

The Jewish side of the family is very, very, very secular. Seders go very quickly, because Uncle L. insists we edit out all mention of God.

:help:
:shock: Jeez, Uncle L. :shock:

When ROTK came out, I had gone to Toronto for the premiere and met up with a bunch of chums from another LOTR site. One of them, whose name was Mel Baggins, had brought this HUGE bag of gold wrapped chocolate coins and she handed them out to all and sundry as Chanukah gelt. Reading this has made me remember dear sweet Mel Baggins and all the fun we had.

And I have a menorah. We use it every Christmas on the sideboard during Christmas dinner. An old Jewish bachelor friend of my late mother-in-law's gave it to her, and she to us. It's a lovely plain and elegant thing from Denmark, of all places. We mean no disrespect to anyone when we use it, and it's one of our little family treasures.
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Frelga, I does ask, and if that's not nice enough, I begs.

(That's twice I've said that today.)
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Post by Sister Magpie »

Frelga wrote:Today? :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

* recovers from a mild heart attack *

Hanukah starts on December 25th this year. The Chanukkah bazaar at my synagogue is not even until Sunday.
LOL--I thought I was going crazy and people were lying to me for some reason. Not that I am usually up on when Hannukah starts, but a few people happened to mention to me that it started on Christmas day this year.

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Post by truehobbit »

Wow, thanks for the replies, all! :)

*is glad to be using a sun-based calendar* :P ;)

Judah Maccabee? So, there's another connection to Christmas in that the most famous piece from Handel's "Judas Maccabeus" is popular in Germany as a Christmas song to the text "Daughter of Zion, rejoice". :D

So, all the candles are lit for all the eight days? I was wondering whether maybe they were lit one the first day, two the second etc...

And what's a Seder?
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Post by Frelga »

TH, candles are traditionally lit just as you say - starting with one for the first day and adding one candle each day until all are lit on the eighth day. Every day there is also a special candle, called a shammus, which is used to light the other candles.

A Seder, "order" in Hebrew, is sort of a "script" for observation of Passover at the family table. It usually includes retelling the story of Passover and a few traditional rituals that go with it. It also requires drinking four glasses of wine.
:cheers:

V, you don't have to ask twice. :) I'll post a few thoughts when I get home, if I have the time.
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Post by Jnyusa »

Yes, that's right, Hobby. One candle the first night, two the second, etc.

"Seder" is the name for the Passover Dinner. You have to pray for like 3 hours before you get to eat. :D

Seriously, the whole story of the Exodus gets retold, in Hebrew, with lots of singing, wine drinking, and eating horseradish in the middle. Only then, dinner. :help:

Some of us use the Cliff Notes instead, cut right to the chicken soup, and drink and sing at the end. <heretical smiley>

Jn

sorry! cross-posted with Frelga!
Last edited by Jnyusa on Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

Dear Frelga, I didn't mean that I asked you twice. :oops: I meant that I had used that quote from Sam twice in one day (the other time in response to Queen B). But I do look forward to your further thoughts, when you have the time. :love:
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Post by JewelSong »

Here's my favorite Hannukah song - written by Peter Yarrow (of Peter, Paul and Mary) Notice that "light one candle" is sung eight times - for the eight candles on the Menorah!

Light One Candle

Light one candle for the Maccabee children
With thanks that their light didn't die
Light one candle for the pain they endured
When their right to exist was denied
Light one candle for the terrible sacrifice
Justice and freedom demand
Light one candle for the wisdom to know
When the peacemaker's time is at hand

Don't let the light go out!
It's lasted for so many years!
Don't let the light go out!
Let it shine through our love and our tears.


Light one candle for the strength that we need
To never become our own foe
Light one candle for those who are suffering
Pain we learned so long ago
Light one candle for all we believe in
Let anger not tear us apart
Light one candle to bind us together
With peace as the song in our hearts


Don't let the light go out!
It's lasted for so many years!
Don't let the light go out!
Let it shine through our love and our tears.


What is the memory that's valued so highly
That we keep it alive in that flame?
What's the commitment to those who have died
That we cry out they've not died in vain?
We have come this far always believing
That justice would somehow prevail
This is the burden, this is the promise
This is why we will not fail!


Don't let the light go out!
It's lasted for so many years!
Don't let the light go out!
Let it shine through our love and our tears.


Don't let the light go out!
Don't let the light go out!
Don't let the light go out!
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Post by fisssh »

Oh that's nice. I didn't know there were any other Hannukah songs. We had to learn "Oh Dreidel, Dreidel, Dreidel" in school. I can still remember it!

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Post by IE »

JewelSong, that's my favorite Hanukkah Song too. Partly because I'm a huge PP&M fan and partly because my parents gave me no education in the Jewish traditions so it's one of like.. oh.. TWO that I know (the other being "Dreidel Dreidel Dreidel").

I had to do a write up about Hanukkah for work this year, as part of the diversity team's holiday stuff. I asked for the job as I'm interested and feel sort of spiritually and culturally bereft without knowing what I should be doing to observe the traditions. It's gratifying to know that I found out the right "When" and "How" and "Why" information :)

My children and I always light the menorah for each night and we always say our prayers too, but Dad won't let us go quite so far as having a Seder.

There are two huge synagoques within about a mile of one another here and at least one night of the holiday we make a point of driving by to see the Rabbis light the outdoor menorahs.

I'm so glad to see this discussion. What fun :)
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