Chanukkah

For discussion of philosophy, religion, spirituality, or any topic that posters wish to approach from a spiritual or religious perspective.
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Frelga
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Post by Frelga »

TH wrote:(Though I'm not all that sure I'm ready to delve into a discussion like that with nobody agreeing with me! )
If we all agreed, would it still be a discussion? ;)

But I do know what you mean and I don't want to be flippant about it. I find it very threatening to bring up my deepest beliefs and convictions, especially when I know that they are not shared by any of the others. Still, that's what makes it fascinating, to me at least.
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Impenitent
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Post by Impenitent »

Hmmm....missed this due to self-imposed absence. :)

Coupla thoughts:

• We always use olive oil to fry our latkes - mmmmnnnnn, olive oil! :drool: mmmmnnnnn, latkes! :drool: :drool:

• The Chanukah gelt - the chocolate money - it's related to the dreidls. Because the transmitting and teaching of the religion was forbidden, secret schools were set up, disguised as gambling dens. When they were raided, the teaching materials were vanished and the spinning tops and money came out as diversions.

• I find a great irony that Chanukah has been used as a Christmas substitute by so many Jews. In some ways it's understandable, with Christmas being so pervasive, that some 'borrowing' takes place - presents, 'Chanukah' bushes instead of Christmas trees, etc. And some might say that Jews have always borrowed from the culture around us. But here come the irony: the story of Chanukah is about not adopting the dominant culture. Chanukah is a celebration about how a minority prevailed against an overwhelming majority culture being forced upon it.

• The Maccabean uprising was not, strictly speaking, against the Syrians. The history is rather more complexc than the story - it was, in fact, a civil war because many Israelites gleefully adopted Greek culture (which was the dominant and most progressive culture of the period), adopting Greek dress and worship and philosophy and even the gymnasiums (where men competed naked, egad! Against Jewish law) and some men even went so far as to attempt to reverse their circumcisions.

So the Maccabeas were not quite so pure as they are painted - in some ways they can be seen to have sought the suppression of religious and cultural diversity and their 'enemies' were as much the apostates as the Syrians.

Which is not to say that the Syrians didn't have a hand in it, but that's not the complete story.

• I have given a talk about Chanukah to my kids' classes every year (I take in a menorah with candles, teach a song, provide doughnuts - and try to give a potted history of the thing). I try to find a modern symbolism to the story, and in recent times, what has struck me is that Chanukah can be used as a potent symbol for the right to be different and the obligation to be tolerant of difference. That has tended to be my emphasis in talking to the classes in our primary school.
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Post by nerdanel »

Just wishing everyone who celebrates on this board a very Happy Hanukkah.

This is my first year lighting the candles, believe it or not. Why it took me so long to do this - despite having celebrated virtually every other Jewish holiday several times - is a complicated matter. But in any event, I finally got my own Hanukiah a couple of years ago (feeling a bit guilty about opting for a modern design for my first)...and I'm sitting here (having just gotten in from work after 11:30 PM), after lighting the candles and saying the blessings, sort of watching and savoring the experience of participating in this ritual.

It's interesting to partake of a ritual like this solo, because it - like so many - reminds that Judaism is designed for family and community, not to be celebrated solo. But I know that twice this weekend, I will light the candles with friends in the Bay Area who I love well-enough to consider as my Jewish family. And that is a pleasant thought to which to look forward.
I won't just survive
Oh, you will see me thrive
Can't write my story
I'm beyond the archetype
I won't just conform
No matter how you shake my core
'Cause my roots, they run deep, oh

When, when the fire's at my feet again
And the vultures all start circling
They're whispering, "You're out of time,"
But still I rise
This is no mistake, no accident
When you think the final nail is in, think again
Don't be surprised, I will still rise
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Post by Rowanberry »

I, too, want to wish a Happy Hanukkah to everybody who celebrates it. :)
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See the world as your self.
Have faith in the way things are.
Love the world as your self;
then you can care for all things.
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Frelga
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Post by Frelga »

Happy Hanukah to all who celebrate!

And a word those who don't but find themselves invited to a celebration - I have noticed that there is sometimes a hint of anxiety when we encounter a tradition that is different from our own. Being nice people, we are anxious not to commit some inadvertent faux pas. In the spirit of sharing the joy, here's Frelga's easy guide to Jewish Holidays.

1. It's just a party.

2. Vegan is always kosher.
2a. Bacon is not vegan*. :P

That's it.

* Although I've had a bit of trouble convincing waiters of the fact. :scratch:

Moving on, here's Frelga's easy guide to Hanukkah gift giving.

1. You don't have to.

2. But feel free.

3. They probably don't have a Christmas tree.

Again, that's it.

Wishing you much joy, and many reasons to celebrate.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.

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Post by axordil »

Vegan is always kosher.
But not always kosher for passover. My former M-I-L used to love to tell the story of the year she could cook cauliflower but not broccoli...
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Frelga
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Post by Frelga »

What's wrong with broccoli? :shock:

Yeah, Passover is more complicated. But honestly, if people invite friends over for Passover and request to bring food, they are in no position to complain about whatever they get. Those who want to ensure that everything is up to their standards, do the cooking themselves.
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Primula Baggins
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Post by Primula Baggins »

Yes, even assuming I have the best intentions in life, have been given a good, clear recipe, and know where to get the right ingredients, my kitchen itself is not kosher, so. . . .
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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axordil
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Post by axordil »

Frelga wrote:What's wrong with broccoli?
It might have bugs in it, you know. Bugs you won't find. Cauliflower, on the other hand, is fine and bug-free. :scratch:

Translation: the local Vaad didn't get a kickback from the broccoli vendor, but did from the cauliflower guy. That was her interpretation, and she was pretty plugged in.
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Frelga
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Post by Frelga »

Ax, all I can say is, there's reason why I'm Reform. ;) We have our own mishegaz, but not that particular kind.

Prim, see, that's what I mean. No one can ask more than that, and really as long as you have gone to that much trouble the rest is not your worry. Most people who invite other people for dinner are not unreasonable.

Only one set of my friends has a kosher kitchen, and that's so that their more orthodox friends would eat at their house. When I went there with food, I'd bring something vegan (Or fishy. They were pescarian or whatever the term is for vegetarians who eat fish. Vegetarian would have been fine, too, but Lufu had dairy allergies back than.) in a new disposable container, or in glass, which for obscure ritual reasons is considered cleanable, and hakuna matata.

The Orthodox mohel who came to do Lufu's bris (circumcision) was very kind about being in my non-kosher house, too, although he didn't eat anything except the challah. I am told that mine is just about the only community in the U.S. where an Orthodox mohel and a Reform Rabbi would perform bris together.

Anyway. My point is, people who spend their lives as religious minority in larger community have usually adjusted to dealing with the majority. We tend to be appreciative of well-meaning interest from our neighbors. So, back to Frelga's guide - bring something vegan*, enjoy the pretty candles, and don't worry about the rest.

* Or vegetarian, but vegan is pretty much fool-proof.
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Primula Baggins
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Post by Primula Baggins »

"Hakuna matata"? :P Trying to slip one by there, Frelga dear?
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Frelga
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Post by Frelga »

Yup. :D

Or maybe this.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.

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Post by Griffon64 »

Well, guess what song is stuck in my head now. :P Thank you so much, Frelga!

;)
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Frelga
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Post by Frelga »

Sorry. :oops:
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.

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Post by River »

Frelga wrote:When I went there with food, I'd bring something vegan (Or fishy. They were pescarian or whatever the term is for vegetarians who eat fish. Vegetarian would have been fine, too, but Lufu had dairy allergies back than.) in a new disposable container, or in glass, which for obscure ritual reasons is considered cleanable, and hakuna matata.
Gah! I am am so tired of this confusion. Vegetarians do not eat fish. Any vegetarian who says they eat fish is not a vegetarian and I wish they'd stop calling themselves that. The number of times I've told someone I'm vegetarian and been offered fish... :roll:

Pescatarian = someone who eats fish and seafood flesh but no other animal flesh. No one who eats fish and/or seafood is vegetarian. No one.

Vegetarian = someone who eats no animal flesh at all. Vegetarians do not eat fish. We do not eat chicken. Fish sauce and any meat-based broth is out. In fact, most of us count out anything that you had to kill the animal to make. I typically look for a kosher stamp (though I am not Jewish, the dietary laws are on my side) if I'm concerned about the ingredients list on a product. The more idealistic are sketched out by meat-flavored products. Much debate about whether or not that's cheating. My dislike for the flavor and texture of meat is what drove me into being a vegetarian in the first place so I avoid the fake meat.

Vegan = someone who eats/uses no animal products at all. No eggs, no dairy, no honey. Not all vegetarians are vegan, but all vegans are vegetarian. A truly hardcore vegan will even avoid wearing wool, silk, and leather and some vegans can be very prickly about glue as well.

Sorry for the hissy fit. Carry on.

I'm not sure I've ever been invited to a Hannukah celebration. I have, however, been to a few Passover seders. A lovely ceremony, that.

Happy Hannukah!
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Post by BrianIsSmilingAtYou »

Voronwë_the_Faithful wrote:Frelga, I would be interested in more. :)

I particularly like the fact that you spelt the word Chanukkah four different ways in the course of your post, and still didn't exhaust all of the possibilities. :P
Going way back in the thread--I have to say this is one of my favorite posts on HoF.

We have to have a contest to determine all of the possible ways to spell Hanukkah. (Did I spell that wrong?)

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Post by Frelga »

Brian, I make it a point to spell Chanukah as many ways as I possibly can, just to be ornery. :P Personally, I don't like the CH spelling much, since it could be read as in "chair." English is tuff stough. My personal preferred spelling is Hanukah, which gives one English consonant for every Hebrew letter.

Or you could just spell it
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So, River, do you think bacon is vegan? *ducks and runs*

To make the confusion worse, for the purposes of kashrut, fish is pareve, meaning it can be eaten with either milk or meat products, so it's sort of an honorary vegetable. But seriously, I do understand the frustration of those who avoid animal products for humanitarian... um, humane reasons.

Our family has a weird diet anyway. We don't eat red meat (except I do occasionally order lamb when we eat out). Until recently we also avoided dairy (Lufu's allergy) and tomato (DH's stomach) products. When invited for dinner, we just brought desserts for Lufu with us, and hoped for the best, because explaining to sane people our eating habits was just too complicated.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.

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Post by BrianIsSmilingAtYou »

Frelga wrote:English is tuff stough. My personal preferred spelling is Hanukah, which gives one English consonant for every Hebrew letter.
English is indeed tuff stough.

You may be interested to know that ghoti is pareve. :D

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Post by River »

**throws gelt at the retreating Frelga
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Post by baby tuckoo »

In the beginning was the potato.

God made it without an "e" except in the plural and because it was without color on the inside on the second day he made broccoli and arrugula.


On the third day God made the ruminant beasts so that cream sauce from their utterances might cover the plate and make these rough succulents more palatable.

On the fourth day God brought together salt and calcium and omega 3 and made the fishes of the sea. He saw that it was pretty good but maybe not worth $35 before dessert and without wine.


On the fifth day, God created the comma for to better guide his people in the parsing of the sentence, and he foresaw that it would be misused, and he created the gerund, a plump morsel of griss that would not go well with the fish or the flesh of the ruminant beasts. Nonetheless, it was good.



On the sixth day, God created both the full and the semi colons, and all the little marks that appear above vowels, and cilantro with its ambiguous attractions, and cumin with its own appeal, and that was all. That was enough.


It was time to eat and to write. It was the seventh day.
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