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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 5:57 pm 
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Jnyusa wrote:
It's the kaf and not the nun that has the dot, right? It should be two k's, but double-k is so unusual in English it never looks quite right to me, so I almost always end up doubling the n instead. 8)
Jn

The kaf does have a dot (dagesh) but as far as I know that is just the nature of the letter, and is not meant to indicate extra emphasis as is often the case when a consonant that does not usually have a dot has one in a particular word ie- that kaf will have a dagesh no matter when or where the letter appears in a word (I should add also that it will never be the last letter in a word. In such a case it would be a chaf-sofit and the sound would be the 'ch' sound unless there is a dagesh which would harden the sound to a 'k'.) There are numerous grammatical reasons for the presence of a dagesh(which is the primary name for that type of dot. Unless it's in a letter 'heh' at the end of a word which is referred to as a mapik and usually denotes female ownership- her x or y). Sometimes it's for emphasis and sometimes it's there as a replacement for a missing letter, or because it is grammatically necessary following certain consonants.

Usually, the letter kaf is transliterated using the single english letter k. I'm not sure if a second k would be required for english grammar reasons or if the n would have to be doubled for that reason (when it comes to english grammar it is embarressing how much I've forgotten . :oops: . Egregious mistakes galore I'd imagine.) You are correct that there is no dagesh in the nun so from a transliteration standpoint I would assume that it would not require a second n.

In terms of ch or h, phonetically the sound of the chet in the hebrew word chanukah is equivalent to the ch sound whereas the h would be the phonetic equivalent of the letter heh. However, technically, because the proper pronunciation of the chet is gutteral, as many sephardim pronounce it, using an h would not be so far off either (and I think is often used in transliteration). I guess the sound is somewhere between the ch and h.

I also assumed that mainstream english uses h instead of ch because the ch sound is difficult to pronounce for people who grew up speaking english as a first language with no other real exposure to other languages as it is not a sound common to most english words.

At the end of the day, though, the intended word is clear so all I have to say is -spelling shmelling 8)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:57 pm 
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Spelling schmelling.

<runs away fast>

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 7:04 pm 
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:rofl:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:18 am 
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:rofl:

Prim can be such a naughty grrlll.... :P


nerdanel wrote:
Anthy, you and your daughter rock. The pluralism and inclusiveness and thoughtfulness and goodwill - dude, I want to be like you AND your daughter when I grow up.


Dude. You're on. But you hafta learn to like horses. :sunny:


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 5:39 am 
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Glowy, that was very illuminating. I tend to go with "Hanukah" because I get the right number of consonants this way. Thanks for pointing out "ch" vs. "h" sound.

* sigh * Engilsh is a marvelous language, but phonetic spelling is not its forte.

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Prim, Glowy was using Sefardic form of writing schmelling. :upsidedown:

Anthy, you rock. So does your daughter. You rock together.

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But I am trying to be sensitive (and so is my daughter, mature little thing that she is!) to not shove OUR religiously based practices onto those who don't share our religion. Even with the best of intentions, it can be... presumptuous, I guess.


You are giving a gift, Anthy. You can't possibly be presumptuous, even if you do use four-syllable words. :hug: I mean, I've brought Hamentashen to the office on Purim - was I shoving my practice at defenceless coworkers? They didn't seem to mind. :D

You are sharing your celebration by giving gifts. That's lovely! You've also recognized that one particular gift may not work for some of your daughter's friends and decided to pick something more suitable. That's even lovelier, and nothing more can possibly be required.

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