A Reincarnation Dream

[Maria]

I had an interesting little dream last night.

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Two people were making love, and in a room *somewhere* else there were a lot of people waiting. A baby got started, and a voice announced the names of the parents (everyone seemed to know who was meant and their history) and then the voice asked who wanted to be this child.

There were varied reactions through the waiting room. One person said, "Well, if nothing better is available..." Others didn't even reply. One said, "Oh! OH! I want it! I want it!"

That was all.

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I've been pondering this all day, and the questions it raises are fascinating. Could this really be how reincarnation is accomplished? How does Karma play into it? If more than one soul really, really wants to be born into a particular situation, do they get priority assigned according to how well they did in their last turn? Do the ones who really screwed up their last life get last choice on available incarnations? Do some people choose to wait a long time until just the right opportunity comes up?

How long is the wait between incarnations? Do some people choose to be born into less favorable situations- just so they can take a turn sooner? Do they know the gender the child will be? That should be apparent genetically, as soon as fertilization occurs. Do some people who really prefer a specific gender take a chance on a waiting list- and get the opposite gender than what they are used to?

Can friends sign up for geographic & temporal closeness, so they'd have a better chance of meeting in the next life?

What do you think of all this? Interesting questions??? Anybody got an answers?

[TIGG]

interesting questions.

no answers

lots of thoughts though.

[Elflover]

I like your dream, Maria. That's a really cool idea I don't really have answers to your questions though.

It is interesting that the vast majority of people throughout history have believed in reincarnation, yet the details of how it is accomplished vary greatly according to the specific religious belief or group of people you ask.

I've read a number of new age books on reincarnation, and it seems to be a popular idea that souls choose their lives. Some people with past life recollections (through hypnosis or dreams) report remembering choosing circumstances of their birth and people in their lives. Some say there are a few days to a few years between lives, others say it can even be hundreds of years between lives for a soul who does not wish to reincarnate or who is waiting for the right conditions.

The problem is sorting through these accounts to determine where there really is evidence to support a claim, who the source is and how mentally sound they are, and stories that are just historically (or otherwise) impossible. I believe strongly in reincarnation, yet I am also skeptical of much of the stuff that is out there. A lot of it seems like well-written fiction.

I have developed a greater interest in Buddhism over the last year or so. I believe it to be a more "stable" belief system in that it has been around so much longer than the new age movement. A monk at the temple I meditate in says that when people reach a certain stage of meditation, they may be able to "see" flashes of past lives. This is due to the level of stillness the mind has developed. The individual is beginning to see themselves as they really are, as not just as this body we currently inhabit. However, Buddhists do not dwell on their past lives since that can be a distraction in itself to the state of mind they are trying to reach.

From what I do understand of Buddhist beliefs, they believe in a relatively short time between lives (a few weeks) and they soul finds itself "pulled" toward a body whether it likes it or not. What kind of life it has depends greatly on karma. Basically, the decisions and actions of the person in their immediate life as well as built-up from previous lives determines what realm the person will be born into (not always human) and even among humans, where in the world you will be born and to what kind of parents. Even with the karmic pull, a person still has a certain amount of choice. It may be possible to resist an easy, restful life to choose a harder one with more potential for the growth of your soul, for instance. But you still work within what seems to be rather specific parameters based on karma.

[TIGG]

Maria, your dream would make a great basis for a short story.

I believe all souls are knowledgeable, some are old at birth, some like mine seem never to 'grow up', to just revel in childish behaviour, and keep a degree of naivety.

My cat has definitely lived before, she is too knowing to be a young soul, I wonder am I doomed to return time and again and be hurt until I learn to grow a cynical side? Are we returned time and time again until we learn the lessons we have failed?

can I chose to come back as a wild being enxt time, a tiger or a puma? something self sufficent, something with CLAWS, something that has the ability to defend itself.

[Maria]

I definitely like the idea of semi-choice involved in reincarnation. That those who messed up can either leave the "game" or play out a less cool role. I really don't like the idea of being trapped on the wheel of life. I'd like to believe that people have a choice on whether to play this "game" or not! Of course, if they continue to play the game, they have to play by the rules.....

I wonder if the really picky souls take geopolitical trends and infant mortality rates into consideration, in addition to family situation? The dream felt like the waiting souls had all the current information they needed, just nothing about the future.

[Elflover]

Maria, I actually do "like" the idea of souls being trapped in the wheel of life. I'm not sure "like" is the right word to use there, since it is not a pleasant thought, but I tend to lean more in that direction. It makes sense to me, and it explains the way things are - not necessarily how we want them to be. The idea that we do not always "choose" our lives also coincides more with a belief in personal responsibility for our actions as well as absolute justice. Basically, you get what you pay for.

Put very simply, if you do bad things and do not repent or absolve those deeds (or attitudes and thoughts) in this life, your next life may be harder as the consequences of your actions are forced upon you. If you have led a good life (and that includes your motivations, not just the actions others see), then you may deserve a better life in the future. However, you could still choose a harder life if you believe you can handle it and want greater opportunity to better yourself further.

My problem with allowing too much choice in what life we have (i.e. your waiting room scenario where souls pick what they want) is that it is more difficult to see karma in action. To take an extreme example, what if one of those souls in the waiting room had killed several people during their life. But here they are, waiting for an opportunity to come along that they want so they can choose something good for themselves next time. It's not really fair. The idea that souls have more minimal choices is not always pleasant, but it allows justice to do its part. The way you really "choose" your next life is through your choices in this one.

I keep bringing up Buddhism because it is a philosophy I have been very attracted to lately (and talking about it is a way for me to try to sort out my own spiritual beliefs as well). There are parts of Buddhism that I disagree with. One idea I do not like is that an action done in someone else's name can affect their karma. For instance, if a person had been a faithful vegetarian throughout their life, but their family eats meat at their funeral. Because the meat eating was done in that person's honor, it affects where the soul is reborn and they may be born into a lesser situation than they would have otherwise. I really do not like this because it isn't a person's fault how others behave after they die! They do not control anyone else's actions, and that really sounds more like exploitation than karma to me.

[Maria]

Oh, I didn't mean that they would escape karma by their choices... I think the choice should be in whether or not they continue to "play the game" or not. If they choose to continue the experience of being human over and over, then they'd have to play by the rules and put up with whatever unpleasantness awaits them in their next life in response to how they screwed up their previous life.

What I was talking about was the option of leaving the "game" entirely-- quitting and doing whatever it is that vast, multidimensional beings do when not playing an addictive 4 D reality game. To me, it is vital that our participation in this reality be voluntary, otherwise it would be intolerable.

[Lidless]

I never gave reincarnation much truck, particularly since there are more humans alive now than have ever died in the sum of human history. There simply isn’t enough old souls to go around, apart from maybe Napoleon who, judging by the number of people claiming to be him, had suffered from a serious multiple-personality problem.

[yovargas]

I never gave reincarnation much truck, particularly since there are more humans alive now than have ever died in the sum of human history. There simply isn’t enough old souls to go around, apart from maybe Napoleon who, judging by the number of people claiming to be him, had suffered from a serious multiple-personality problem.

You're leaving out animals.

[Maria]

I figure there's a waiting list to even play the "Earthling" game. Kinda like the long lines for the good roller coasters in theme parks. Jillions of souls just lining up for a chance to have their memories temporarily erased and their consciousness plunked into a weird little 4D entities that experience the time dimension in a linear fashion!

I figure everyone starts out as single celled organisms and works their way up, like leveling up on a game. You've got to be pretty good to get to the human level, and once you've worked through all the human levels, then you get a bonus round if you want it.

I wonder what happens when you finish the game? I was once addicted to Super Tetris, and could play both sides of a two player game, one side with each hand. (Took lots of attention.) After I got bored with that, I started trying to get the highest score possible and Win the Game. I had this game that I had saved over and over again, until I was into impossibly fast levels. I'd pause it, analyse the drop pattern, unpause it and play for a split second while the piece dropped and pause and save again. I did this for days, with each level getting faster and faster. I was expecting to Win sometime and get a little applause or something.

Finally, the score flicked past 1 million... and the game froze, and I could never access that game again. I never played Super Tetris again, and it's been over 10 years now.

I hope there's some sort of fanfare for those entities who finish the game of life. I wonder if "Enlightenment" is the realization that it's a stupid game after all, and you aren't going to play anymore?

[Elflover]

Totally off topic - Maria, you have to check out this tetris player:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/tetrismaster.html

Anyway, I think we have some very different outlooks on life and also on the nature of religion. With all of the suffering in the world (and even people who are materially wealthy are still unhappy), life just doesn't seem like a game to me. Most people want something other than what they have in life, and that's not even considering those who are truly suffering, such as through starvation and extreme poverty or living in war-torn areas. I'm generally pessimistic and tend to believe our souls are trapped here on earth. Our search for "God" and "religion" is really a search for a way out of the mess we are in.

I like your view, but I don't think I can bring myself to a point of seeing things so positively.

[Maria]

I think suffering and mortality is part of the "ride". To immortal beings who can do anything they can imagine- the concept of a limited existance might be an attractive one for entertainment purposes. Limited powers, limited lifespan and so many, many things they can't control... maybe that would be attractive to a bored entity? For a little while, anyway.

We're trapped in a huge version of Roller Coaster Tycoon, where scary and uncomfortable things happen just for "fun".

I wonder what the beings who are not addicted to a game like "Earthlings" think about those who are?

edit: I'm working on downloading the video but it's slow, slow, slow on dialup. I'm asking my husband to download it at work, where he's got a fast connection.

edit2: Wow, that person really is amazingly fast with Tetris! I've never seen that particular version of tetris before, but the player did really well! I couldn't have done it without pausing at least some of the time.