The Twelve Steps

For discussion of philosophy, religion, spirituality, or any topic that posters wish to approach from a spiritual or religious perspective.
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Nin
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Post by Nin »

Sometimes really dropping someone is the only way that he will get himself up. I have often read that drug addicts need to be dropped, need to be beyond all hope to find some resilience in themselves.

If you think, vison, that you have given him all you can, then you have and have the right to cease.
"nolite te bastardes carborundorum".
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axordil
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Post by axordil »

Vison--

The son you raised is not around right now. Only the addiction that physically resembles him. That is no more your son than the Frodo who put the Ring on in the Cracks of Doom was, well, Frodo.

Addiction hollows people. It scoops the self that was there out and replaces it with a sucking void. And sometimes, for the good of the community and their own good, those hollow people must be arrested and the addiction broken by force.

Remember the son you raised and never stop loving him. He may yet show up again. But he's not the person you're dealing with.
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vison
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Post by vison »

If we could force him into treatment, we would have done so. We thought of doing an "intervention" at times, but it just wasn't going to work out, somehow, since there are so few places to take addicts. The Salvation Army runs a place, and sometimes you can just take someone there and drop them off and leave them, but the sad truth is, they don't always have room. There are basically no private clinics in BC, either. He has, once or twice, mentioned that he would go to a rehab, but there are almost none. Sounds strange, doesn't it? The few rehabs there are have long waiting lists, which is pointless when you are dealing with an addict who might be vulnerable for a half hour and certainly won't sit around waiting for six months until a place opens up.

This is a whole thing, actually. Our society loathes drug users and criminalizes them, but at the same time offers little help for anyone who wants to get off drugs. Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming "society" in any way for my son's condition. It's just that even for people who really want to quit, there are few places that will help.

As well, my son has to want to get off drugs. He has to hit bottom, as they say, and while to me it looks like he is at the bottom right now and has been for a long time, he hasn't come to that realization yet. He may never do so. If he goes to jail, there is counselling available, and Narcotics Anonymous. He's his own problem. He has to sort it out.

As far as the religious aspect of AA, well, one friend of mine, an agnostic like me, joined AA many years ago and has stayed with it. She is comfortable with "god as I know him" as they put it in their program. AA saved her life, at any rate. It isn't that I'm troubled by. I have a hard time expressing just what it is. I don't know that it matters, anyway.
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Sassafras
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Post by Sassafras »

Oh vison.

Your pain is palpable. It grieves me to read it because more than likely it mirrors the pain I subjected so many friends and family to in my own less-than-savoury past.

I have been there. I have almost been your son. I have, as you may recall, lived through the depravity and hell of addiction. I lied, I cheated, I manipulated, I stole. From people like you, from the system, from my family. From my then-teenage daughter. Narcotics Anonymous saved my life and was my road back to sanity. Detox, hospitalization, counselling, live-in programs did not work for me and do not work for most. I hold no religion nor believe in any deity ... but working the 12 steps to the best of my ability gave me some sort of strength and the group held me accountable and provided a genuine support system. If an inveterate nit-picking introvert like me can find the truth within Bill W's dream then so can anyone :I have 21 years clean and sober to prove it.

Go back to Al-anon, vison. Go back and use what you can. Go back and try to work the steps without using the concept of God or 'Grace' ... substitute anything at all for the word 'God' ... self ... conscience ... hell, leave it blank (which is what I did most of the time) but it is important that you write an inventory and share it with a sponsor. It doesn't matter that you understand the mechanism of the ritual of the symbolic purge .... (I did too) what matters is that it WORKS! And, at the very least, the support of the group may bring you solace.

As for your son: Well, I'm sure you've heard it all many times over. You are doing what must be done. You have to sever all ties and let him go completely. He wont give up the addiction yet. He may never give it up.
Meth irrevocably changes brain chemistry and the sad fact is that his bottom may be the grave.

:hug:
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Ever mindful of the maxim that brevity is the soul of wit, axordil sums up the Sil:


"Too many Fingolfins, not enough Sams."

Yes.
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vison
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Post by vison »

Thank you, Sassafras. Coming from someone who's seen it from the other side, your words mean a lot.

I may go back to Al-Anon, right now I can't say one way or the other. It was never the religious aspect of it that troubled me. It wasn't the GROUP or its philosophy, it was ME. I don't think I was ready.
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Impenitent
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Post by Impenitent »

Vison, I've been staring at the screen quite some time hoping that something meaningful will somehow find its way through me. Not happening.

I'm so sad, aggrieved, feeling your pain and your husband's and that of your two little boys.

You love him and he's not there and you can't bring him back. He has to somehow struggle back himself, from the pit, if he can and in the mean time there is this shell of your boy before you.

I have been thinking of the strange juxtapositionings of life.

This week, in Australia, two miners who had been buried a kilometre underground by an earthquake were finally rescued after 10 days of ceaseless work by their mates. They dug day and night, with hand tools at the end, on their knees in a one metre shaft and would not give up the fight even at risk of their own lives - a palpable risk. Such grace, such inspiration, such goodness!

In the same week, a South African judge acquitted former deputy president Jacob Zuma of raping an HIV-positive woman, a family friend. He had admitted using no condoms and said he showered afterward to minimise the risk of infection.

Here, in our own circle, think of what we have experienced - Vison's and Prim's battles with cancer, which our Anthy is now facing and WampusCat with Mr Wampus. And such grace shown here, such courage and fortitude and hope and goodness.

Vison's heartbreak with her son...yova's opening himself to his parents...Ethel's struggles, Eru's struggles, Jewel's move, Nerdanel's milestone...There is so much both good and bad, all happening to those I care for.

Life is in full technicolour, such highs, such dreadful pits.

This is probably the wrong thread for it, but I've been away and ignorant this week and I feel, now, overwhelmed by life and how it can hit at all angles. I just wanted to express it.

The sharing is what makes it possible to bear, don't you think? We all feel it, don't we? But the heart expands, expands, expands to deal with it all. And that is a miracle too.
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vison
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Post by vison »

Thank you for that lovely post, Impenitent.

Troubles shared are troubles lessened. If I never knew that before, I sure know it now.

And we must all send all our energies Anthriel's way. She's the one that needs it the most just now. I know how much it helps, since I've been there myself.
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Primula Baggins
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Post by Primula Baggins »

And I have, too, and you're right.

But we have hope and prayers and energy to spare for you, vison.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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narya
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Post by narya »

Vison, I'm so sad for you, having to go through this over and over again, being lulled into false hope between each crushing blow. You are so strong. I admire you greatly.

Your story reminds me of the one I heard as a child. One morning, a boy awoke to find that his baby brother was stolen and a qualling, tomato-faced, changling baby was found in his place. His adventure was to track down the changlings and get his real brother back. Sometimes, alas, real life doesn't allow us that option. I keep hoping I'll get back the sweet, happy child I lost to depression 8 years ago. But at least there is still hope for him, and he's only broken my heart twice.

Hugs.
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Post by Erunáme »

vison wrote:Troubles shared are troubles lessened.
I've not heard that saying before. It's a good one and so true.
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truehobbit
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Post by truehobbit »

Here we say: Happiness shared is happiness doubled, grief shared is grief halved. :)

vison, it was just my reaction to the AA list - I didn't mean that it couldn't work for your because you're not religious, I meant that if I was confronted with that list, I'd probably be more angry than helped.
Very interesting to hear that it does seem to help people - I wonder why that is. Maybe one's thinking is so changed from drugs that the guilt-trip thing helps, when, thinking of it now, I can only imagine it would aggravate things.
but being a cheerful hobbit he had not needed hope, as long as despair could be postponed.
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Post by JewelSong »

Hobby, AA is the one program that has the highest success rate in overcoming addictions. In fact, it is the only recommended program that has ANY success rate at all.

I think the list by itself may seem to be a guilt-trip or whatever. But AA was not meant to be done in isolation. What makes it work is that there are other people going through the exact same journey as you and other people who have been on that journey helping you along. In some ways, it breaks you down in order that you may be built up again, but in a different, more healthy way. It forces you to admit your weakness and helplessness so that you can ask for and accept the help you need.

AA was started, in part, by a man named Bill Willson. The group is sometimes called "Friends of Bill W." You can read about him, and the origins of the group HERE

People I know who have been through the AA 12 steps and other programs DO get sick of it sometimes and DO get angry at the seeming inane meetings and tired of the steps. But they ALL state that the program saved their lives. So...for whatever reason - it works.
"Live! Live! Live! Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death!" - Auntie Mame

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Post by yovargas »

It may seem odd to say, but reading through that list makes me think that what they're describing are the steps that led me to come out to my parents. They're the steps that led me to start dealing with my depression two years ago, and overcome it a year ago, and, after stopping the steps, falling back into depression two months ago. They're the steps that will give me the courage and confidence to someday leave my job. They're the steps that will enable me to keep meaningful relationships with my friends and family. They're the steps that will enable me to find a loving relationship. They're the steps that will enable me to do almost anything meaningful and worthwhile in my life. But I don't think of them as "The Twelve Steps" as I walk around in my life. It is simply the process honestly looking at ourselves, acknowledging our flaws, and learning from them. It is simply growth. I'm confident you can accomplish step 1 of that process (as odd as it is thinking of vison having flaws ;) :hug:)



(Hope this doesn't seem out of place as I've only read the first post.)
I wanna love somebody but I don't know how
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists


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Maria
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Post by Maria »

One could do that with just about any personal difficulty, yov. I can do it about over-eating, even though I found the list almost unreadable due to all the incomprensible God references:

The twelve steps:
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol--that our lives had become unmanageable.
I admitted that I can never mindlessly munch again- that I will have to count calories for the rest of my life.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
I've used a variety of mental exercises to strengthen my resolve.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
My will is my strongest tool, I'm not turning it over to anyone!

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
I've done a lot of analysis as to why I would overeat and how to counter that.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
See my sig! :D

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
Was entirely ready to modify myself as necessary to change myself.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
There isn't any humble in me. I'm doing it because I want to and I should be able to control my body as needed.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
Gee, do you think I should apologize to myself? Well, maybe.... :oops:

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
Do you suppose I ought to apologize to my husband for my cooking that has brought him to the overweight state as well? Hmmmmmmm......

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
Daily!

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
I use meditation to strengthen my resolve and to boost my metabolism, and to keep from making myself sick. Does that count?

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
LOL! How many friends would I lose if I did that about weight control??? Although... my mom is now losing weight, too....

On careful analysis, I DON'T like this twelve steps thing. It wants you to put responsibility for your cure in other hands- whereas I believe that only the person afflicted can come up with the Utter Determination needed to make such sweeping and uncomfortable changes in their life. Where would I be if I was asking God to give me the determination to use up my excess calorie storage? I'd have probably crossed the 200 lb mark by now.

It's a matter of re-programming your brain and attitude. All it requires is obsessive Utter Determination- not reliance on deity who apparently follows the Star Trek Prime Directive.
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Primula Baggins
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Post by Primula Baggins »

Well, mileage does vary, Maria. :P As others have said, the Twelve Steps often seem to work when nothing else does, even for people who do not believe in any higher power.

Addiction is a state of powerlessness, and addicts lie to themselves all the time. I'm in charge, and I can stop this any time I want to. . . . That's why admitting you are not in control is the first step and makes all the others possible.

I believe that God does help us when we ask for help. That doesn't mean God gives us everything we want, or makes things easy for us, or that the help is always exactly what we asked for. For an addict, for example, the help most needed might be an utter disaster that takes him to rock bottom.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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yovargas
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Post by yovargas »

One could do that with just about any personal difficulty, yov. I can do it about over-eating, even though I found the list almost unreadable due to all the incomprensible God references
Though I imagine the attempt at a rigid step-by-step structure would be valuable to addicts and others lacking in self-controlled, but I wasn't literally talking about those 12 steps but of a general understanding of what the process is, how to do the process, and why it is of value.
It wants you to put responsibility for your cure in other hands- whereas I believe that only the person afflicted can come up with the Utter Determination needed to make such sweeping and uncomfortable changes in their life. Where would I be if I was asking God to give me the determination to use up my excess calorie storage?
Unless, of course, one believes God is within oneself.
I wanna love somebody but I don't know how
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists


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Maria
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Post by Maria »

You know what? I think I'm allergic to the word "God" or something. When I replace "God" with "The Universe" or "universal energy" it works for me. :scratch:

I don't like to anthropomorphize omniscience and/or omnipotence, I guess.
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vison
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Post by vison »

Well, it does say "god as I understand him". :)

I've said before and I'll say again, it's not the "God" stuff that stalled me. And while I agree with much of what Maria says, I can't go all the way with her on this.

There IS a lesson to be learned from humility. I used to scoff and sneer at that idea, but I don't, not any more. Sometimes is necessary to understand that in the most important ways of existence, we are HELPLESS. Call it Fate or Bad Luck or the sheer Contrariness of the Universe, whatever you like. Maybe even God's Will.

And when you allow yourself to Love someone, you have given your life away. That's a bitter realization, sometimes.

"Hostages to fortune" as Francis Bacon said.

If the 12 steps have saved one life, then they are worthy.
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Sassafras
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Post by Sassafras »

truehobbit wrote: vison, it was just my reaction to the AA list - I didn't mean that it couldn't work for your because you're not religious, I meant that if I was confronted with that list, I'd probably be more angry than helped.
Very interesting to hear that it does seem to help people - I wonder why that is. Maybe one's thinking is so changed from drugs that the guilt-trip thing helps, when, thinking of it now, I can only imagine it would aggravate things.
Hobby (and Maria), If giving up an addiction, any addiction, were as simple as exercising one's will power the 12 steps programs would be irrelevant and treatment centres would be out of business.

It isn't and they aren't. :D

I was an a-theist when I attended NA and worked the steps and I am still an a-theist. Nevertheless, the fact is that after over 20 years of addiction and all sorts of treatment programs plus my reliance upon my own will power ... nothing worked. I went back to drugs time and time again with the full knowledge that I was destroying not only myself but also those around me.

The steps contain truth and one must be at a point where one knows beyond any shadow of doubt that self-reliance is not enough. The cravings, the necessity supersedes all reason and diminishes all self-worth. Humility is the first step on the road to recovery. And for someone as hostile, as stubborn and as pride-filled as me that was beyond huge ... it was a revelation!

I had trouble with the 'God" concept. Enormous resistance. So much so that I always refused to say the Lord's Prayer at the end of meetings and would remain tight-lipped in deafening silence.

But the bottom line is that one gets to a point where unless one surrenders the only other alternative is jail, institutions or death. The steps work because they slowly but surely force you to face your inner demons (and we all have them) and come to grips with the indisputable fact that the self is impotent without the group. You don't need to believe in anything ... all that is required is a willingness to be open.

Maria wrote:
On careful analysis, I DON'T like this twelve steps thing. It wants you to put responsibility for your cure in other hands
Au contraire, mon amie. First of all there is no 'cure' from drug addiction, there is only on-going recovery which takes vigilance. Second, recovery is in the hands of the individual with the support of the group.

And lest you think I don't really understand 'real' drug addiction, let me just say that I was a hard-core heroin addict for 22 years and I've got permanent scars on my arms to prove it.

I would be dead without Narcotics Anonymous. And so would literally hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of others.
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Ever mindful of the maxim that brevity is the soul of wit, axordil sums up the Sil:


"Too many Fingolfins, not enough Sams."

Yes.
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anthriel
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Post by anthriel »

vison wrote:Thank you for that lovely post, Impenitent.

Troubles shared are troubles lessened. If I never knew that before, I sure know it now.

And we must all send all our energies Anthriel's way. She's the one that needs it the most just now. I know how much it helps, since I've been there myself.

ACCKKK!!!1

vison, I will happily envelop any energy anyone sends my way... I feed off of it, you know. But what you are experiencing is so much worse than I am (at this stage of my game, anyway...) I cannot even begin to fathom it.

I am not dealing with a loss of hope. I am not dealing with the despair of a mother's love, undying thing that it is, when I face a smelly, perplexing stranger and thief in my home.

I am not raising two boys, precious little irreplaceable gifts, when I know that their lives are forever being carved in wicked ways by a man who loves a chemical more than anything that can possibly love him back.

I've just got a few wayward cells to deal with. It's a concrete thing, which can be fixed. Not to minimize my plight, but your burden is not lessened because mine just got heavier.

You are my hero, Miss Older Sister Vison. Whether you ever meant to be or not.
(I come to the crux of it in my usual verbose fashion, why tell a straight tale when a long and wandering one will do? Having been immersed in Alice Munro lately, I know what terseness and brevity can accomplish in the way of communicating. But then, she’s Alice Munro and I’m not.)
I don't know who Alice Munro is. But I cannot imagine enjoying reading anyone's writings... even when they are poignantly sad... more than I do yours.

:hug:
"What do you fear, lady?" Aragorn asked.
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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