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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:09 pm 
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Lalaith wrote:
If man is created in God's image and woman is created from man, then she is also created in God's image. And an overview perspective (man and woman are created, God rests) versus a detailed account (God made man and everything, waited a bit, and then made woman from man) can account for the differences there.

And "help meet" (the KJV's choice) is not a bad word. It's from a root word that means "to surround, to protect, to aid, to succour, to help." To me, the original intent was not for subordination, and I don't see the idea of inferiority in any of those actual meanings of the word.


Alatar, that's really interesting! I especially liked the part about the origin of our word "lullaby."

I can get behind this. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:34 pm 
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not something I would recommend
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I just re-read the first couple chapters in Genesis and my take on it is the same as Lali's.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:46 pm 
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Meanwhile...
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Fwiw, one yeshiva student told me that the woman being the last piece of creation makes her the most special one. Just as the world, the plants and animals were made ready before the man was created, the man was made ready before the woman was created.

It is also worth noting that while Christian interpretation blames the woman for the "Fall" (afaik), the Jewish version either sees both halves of the couple as equally guilty and equally punished, or else places greater blame on Adam for misrepresenting God's words to Eve, which set her up to believe the serpent.

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‘There’s no greys, only white that’s got grubby. I’m surprised you don’t know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That’s what sin is.’
‘It’s a lot more complicated than that -’
‘No. It ain’t. When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they’re getting worried that they won’t like the truth. People as things, that’s where it starts.’
Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:55 pm 
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Lali Beag Bídeach
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I like that, Frelga. :D

Well, seriously, I have read some good exegesis of this passage by Christian authors that also places either equal blame on Adam or even holds him more accountable. It's interesting to compare this to Romans 5. Now, I'm not a big fan of quoting big chunks of Scripture because I tend to skip over them, too. So I was originally just going to post one verse; however, the whole passage here is actually pertinent to what we were discussing previously, i.e., judgment and salvation:

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned—for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.

But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ.

Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

(Romans 5:12-19, NIV, emphasis mine)

I've always loved the symmetry of this. And, while I know there are other verses that talk about the Woman sinning, I like how, here, Adam gets the credit for it.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 9:36 pm 
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To go back to the creation of Eve, I've often heard this about that creation:

Woman was created from the rib of man
She was not made from his head to be above him
Nor from his feet, to be trampled on.
She was made from his side, to be equal to him
From under his arm to be protected by him
And close to his heart to be loved by him.

I do not know who wrote it or if it is from ancient times or modern, but I like it! :love:

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Lies the seed, that with the sun's love, in the spring becomes The Rose.


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