So long as it isn't a suppository!Voronwë_the_Faithful wrote:My post was prophylactic rather then accusatory.
Do you believe in God/god(s)/a "higher power"?
- TheEllipticalDisillusion
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A little dualism v monism, eh? Start it up, and I'd certainly join.V wrote:Ah, TED, that could be the subject of a whole other discussion. What is reality, and does it really differ from what our minds can contemplate or imagine.
Anthy, from what I notice, most people post's are somewhat black and white, and I don't think it is that person not allowing any room for his or her opinion to be wrong, but it is more difficult to put your thoughts down clearly and with clarity if you keep putting up "I may be wrong". I think some issues just naturally have such a disclaimer inherent in any opinion (like spirituality).
Well, that's probably true, TED.
I was probably trying to make a subtle point (so subtle that I didn't catch it, at first!) that both "sides" in this debate can project an utter certainty.
There is no certainty, not that anyone can prove. It's all about opinions, and feelings, really!
'Course, I could be wrong.
By the way, Wagner! I remember you from long ago, in Movies, I think... is that right?
I was probably trying to make a subtle point (so subtle that I didn't catch it, at first!) that both "sides" in this debate can project an utter certainty.
There is no certainty, not that anyone can prove. It's all about opinions, and feelings, really!
'Course, I could be wrong.
By the way, Wagner! I remember you from long ago, in Movies, I think... is that right?
"What do you fear, lady?" Aragorn asked.
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
"A cage," Éowyn said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
- TheEllipticalDisillusion
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- Voronwë the Faithful
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Wow, I always thought that TheWagner was a man. Thanks for the clarification.Lidless wrote:Yes it is. She was one of one of the posters I always made a point of reading.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
I have been reading a very interesing book call "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong. I'm really liking it. I started reading it because I read an interview with her on Salon... let's see if I can find it. Yes. Here's the link: http://www.salon.com/books/int/2006/05/30/armstrong/. It's "premium content" though, so if you don't subscribe you'll have to watch some ads to read it. She joined a convent at 17; left 7 years later without ever having felt she found God. Evidently became a (rather snarky, it sounds) commentator on religious topics on British TV. Then wrote some books on religion, and in the process, rediscovered God. Though not in a very conventional way. For her, it's all about a feeling of transcendence and one-ness. She said she thought the whole idea of the afterlife was a "red herriing."
I loved that, because "the afterlife" - Heaven OR Hell - is a big trouble to me in addressing spiritual topics. I found myself very interested in what she had to say, because I cannot really cope with some of the more conventional ideas of God and theology. But the loss of two significant people a couple years ago, and my own impending mortality... have turned my thoughts in a spiritual direction. For whatever reason, this writer speaks to me.
There are many paths, no?
I loved that, because "the afterlife" - Heaven OR Hell - is a big trouble to me in addressing spiritual topics. I found myself very interested in what she had to say, because I cannot really cope with some of the more conventional ideas of God and theology. But the loss of two significant people a couple years ago, and my own impending mortality... have turned my thoughts in a spiritual direction. For whatever reason, this writer speaks to me.
There are many paths, no?
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Based on his regular references to his wife, his name and the photographs of him on his website, I have every reason to think that TheWagner is a manVoronwë_the_Faithful wrote:Wow, I always thought that TheWagner was a man. Thanks for the clarification.Lidless wrote:Yes it is. She was one of one of the posters I always made a point of reading.
Lidless must have been referring to someone else
- Túrin Turambar
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Calling someone by the wrong-gendered pronoun for no reason seems a very odd and arcane joke to me, and being Australian I can claim to have some considerable experience with odd and arcane jokes...
Unless you're teasing, but in that case the same principle applies.
Of course, Voronwë could have been teasing Lidless for a typo or poor grammar, which makes more sense.
Picking up humour on messageboards is hard...
Unless you're teasing, but in that case the same principle applies.
Of course, Voronwë could have been teasing Lidless for a typo or poor grammar, which makes more sense.
Picking up humour on messageboards is hard...
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Cool! I read most of the book when I was 17 (never made it all the way through the book as it is very heavy reading) and it has permanently impacted my religious/spiritual views. I find her fascinating! My current sense of spirituality (and who knows what that is today) is very strongly influenced by her own.I have been reading a very interesing book call "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong.
I wanna love somebody but I don't know how
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
-The Decemberists
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You have to decide what you're comfortable with.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Maybe he's confusing TheWagner and The Watcher?Lord_Morningstar wrote:Based on his regular references to his wife, his name and the photographs of him on his website, I have every reason to think that TheWagner is a manVoronwë_the_Faithful wrote:Wow, I always thought that TheWagner was a man. Thanks for the clarification.Lidless wrote:Yes it is. She was one of one of the posters I always made a point of reading.
Lidless must have been referring to someone else
As far as I know, TheWagner is indeed a man, whereas The Watcher is a woman.
See the world as your self.
Have faith in the way things are.
Love the world as your self;
then you can care for all things.
~ Lao Tzu
I have a question.
Some believe in hell and an afterlife of sorts.
Some believe in a higher power, some do not.
Like anyone else, I roll these questions around in my head. Sometimes more than others.
As I have said before I believe in something. Not sure what exactly, but some sort of connectivity and higher power. Religions serve their purpose and all, but these I believe are man made attempts to answer questions we cannot fathom.
I do believe in the Big Bang theory, but I cannot fathom how this was all just an accident that appeared out of nowhere.
For those that believe there is no afterlife or higher power, I have a question. Or questions rather.
If there is no higher power or afterlife, Then where and how is it that we exist?
How do you get something from nothing?
Meaning that we are existing somewhere, but before the Big Bang was there such a thing as somewhere?
And if there is no purpose to this life, or meaning, then what does it all matter?
How is there a right or wrong? Why not just do anything you want?
There are no consequences to your actions. How is there right or wrong if there is no arbiter? Why not just be completely hedonistic?
We are just a consequence of exploding gas, so really what is the point?
I cannot understand for the life of me how there could not be something or someone that caused us to be.
In fact I cannot even fathom the conception of the universe.
I would like to hear some thoughts from those that do not believe in a higher authority or power, or indeed an afterlife.
Some believe in hell and an afterlife of sorts.
Some believe in a higher power, some do not.
Like anyone else, I roll these questions around in my head. Sometimes more than others.
As I have said before I believe in something. Not sure what exactly, but some sort of connectivity and higher power. Religions serve their purpose and all, but these I believe are man made attempts to answer questions we cannot fathom.
I do believe in the Big Bang theory, but I cannot fathom how this was all just an accident that appeared out of nowhere.
For those that believe there is no afterlife or higher power, I have a question. Or questions rather.
If there is no higher power or afterlife, Then where and how is it that we exist?
How do you get something from nothing?
Meaning that we are existing somewhere, but before the Big Bang was there such a thing as somewhere?
And if there is no purpose to this life, or meaning, then what does it all matter?
How is there a right or wrong? Why not just do anything you want?
There are no consequences to your actions. How is there right or wrong if there is no arbiter? Why not just be completely hedonistic?
We are just a consequence of exploding gas, so really what is the point?
I cannot understand for the life of me how there could not be something or someone that caused us to be.
In fact I cannot even fathom the conception of the universe.
I would like to hear some thoughts from those that do not believe in a higher authority or power, or indeed an afterlife.
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In 1931, the Czech-born mathematician Kurt Gödel demonstrated that within any system, there would always be some propositions that couldn't be proven either true or false using the rules and axioms of that system itself. You might be able to prove every conceivable statement within a system by going outside the system in order to come up with new rules and axioms, but by doing so you'll only create a larger system with its own unprovable statements.
The implication is that all logical system of any complexity are, by definition, incomplete; each of them contains, at any given time, more true statements than it can possibly prove according to its own defining set of rules.
Hence the idea of God, Dark Matter, the mysterious X that balances the equation and conveniently solves the riddle to the enquiring mind. So much easier to say "God is" that "the universe is".
In other words, because we are confined to the universe, it is impossible for us to know the "how". As to whether there is even a "why" is dubious at best.
The implication is that all logical system of any complexity are, by definition, incomplete; each of them contains, at any given time, more true statements than it can possibly prove according to its own defining set of rules.
Hence the idea of God, Dark Matter, the mysterious X that balances the equation and conveniently solves the riddle to the enquiring mind. So much easier to say "God is" that "the universe is".
In other words, because we are confined to the universe, it is impossible for us to know the "how". As to whether there is even a "why" is dubious at best.
It's about time.