Do you believe in God/god(s)/a "higher power"?

[Lidless]

My post was prophylactic rather then accusatory.

So long as it isn't a suppository!

[TheEllipticalDisillusion]

Ah, TED, that could be the subject of a whole other discussion. What is reality, and does it really differ from what our minds can contemplate or imagine.

A little dualism v monism, eh? Start it up, and I'd certainly join.

Anthy, from what I notice, most people post's are somewhat black and white, and I don't think it is that person not allowing any room for his or her opinion to be wrong, but it is more difficult to put your thoughts down clearly and with clarity if you keep putting up "I may be wrong". I think some issues just naturally have such a disclaimer inherent in any opinion (like spirituality).

[anthriel]

Well, that's probably true, TED.

I was probably trying to make a subtle point (so subtle that I didn't catch it, at first!) that both "sides" in this debate can project an utter certainty.

There is no certainty, not that anyone can prove. It's all about opinions, and feelings, really!

'Course, I could be wrong.


By the way, Wagner! I remember you from long ago, in Movies, I think... is that right?

[Lidless]

Yes it is. She was one of one of the posters I always made a point of reading.

[TheEllipticalDisillusion]

There is no certainty, not that anyone can prove.

You say this with such certainty.

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Yes it is. She was one of one of the posters I always made a point of reading.

Wow, I always thought that TheWagner was a man. Thanks for the clarification.

[Ethel]

I have been reading a very interesing book call "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong. I'm really liking it. I started reading it because I read an interview with her on Salon... let's see if I can find it. Yes. Here's the link: http://www.salon.com/books/int/2006/05/30/armstrong/. It's "premium content" though, so if you don't subscribe you'll have to watch some ads to read it. She joined a convent at 17; left 7 years later without ever having felt she found God. Evidently became a (rather snarky, it sounds) commentator on religious topics on British TV. Then wrote some books on religion, and in the process, rediscovered God. Though not in a very conventional way. For her, it's all about a feeling of transcendence and one-ness. She said she thought the whole idea of the afterlife was a "red herriing."

I loved that, because "the afterlife" - Heaven OR Hell - is a big trouble to me in addressing spiritual topics. I found myself very interested in what she had to say, because I cannot really cope with some of the more conventional ideas of God and theology. But the loss of two significant people a couple years ago, and my own impending mortality... have turned my thoughts in a spiritual direction. For whatever reason, this writer speaks to me.

There are many paths, no?

[anthriel]

There are indeed, Ethel.






And just to be clear? I am certain that TED is an insolent pup.

Some truths ARE universal.

[Túrin Turambar]

Yes it is. She was one of one of the posters I always made a point of reading.

Wow, I always thought that TheWagner was a man. Thanks for the clarification.

Based on his regular references to his wife, his name and the photographs of him on his website, I have every reason to think that TheWagner is a man

Lidless must have been referring to someone else

[anthriel]

Or perhaps he is just teasing Wagner? This is Liddy we're talking about, here...

[Túrin Turambar]

Calling someone by the wrong-gendered pronoun for no reason seems a very odd and arcane joke to me, and being Australian I can claim to have some considerable experience with odd and arcane jokes...

Unless you're teasing, but in that case the same principle applies.

Of course, Voronwë could have been teasing Lidless for a typo or poor grammar, which makes more sense.

Picking up humour on messageboards is hard...

[TheEllipticalDisillusion]

Anthy, insolent pup sounds so charming coming from you.

[yovargas]

I have been reading a very interesing book call "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong.

Cool! I read most of the book when I was 17 (never made it all the way through the book as it is very heavy reading) and it has permanently impacted my religious/spiritual views. I find her fascinating! My current sense of spirituality (and who knows what that is today) is very strongly influenced by her own.

[Lidless]

Or perhaps he is just teasing Wagner? This is Liddy we're talking about, here...

Guilty as charged, but I still made a point of reading pretty much everything he wrote.

[Alys]

I voted no.

I won't go into my reasons.

[Primula Baggins]

You have to decide what you're comfortable with.

[Rowanberry]

Yes it is. She was one of one of the posters I always made a point of reading.

Wow, I always thought that TheWagner was a man. Thanks for the clarification.

Based on his regular references to his wife, his name and the photographs of him on his website, I have every reason to think that TheWagner is a man

Lidless must have been referring to someone else

Maybe he's confusing TheWagner and The Watcher?

As far as I know, TheWagner is indeed a man, whereas The Watcher is a woman.

[Holbytla]

I have a question.
Some believe in hell and an afterlife of sorts.
Some believe in a higher power, some do not.
Like anyone else, I roll these questions around in my head. Sometimes more than others.

As I have said before I believe in something. Not sure what exactly, but some sort of connectivity and higher power. Religions serve their purpose and all, but these I believe are man made attempts to answer questions we cannot fathom.

I do believe in the Big Bang theory, but I cannot fathom how this was all just an accident that appeared out of nowhere.

For those that believe there is no afterlife or higher power, I have a question. Or questions rather.

If there is no higher power or afterlife, Then where and how is it that we exist?
How do you get something from nothing?
Meaning that we are existing somewhere, but before the Big Bang was there such a thing as somewhere?

And if there is no purpose to this life, or meaning, then what does it all matter?
How is there a right or wrong? Why not just do anything you want?
There are no consequences to your actions. How is there right or wrong if there is no arbiter? Why not just be completely hedonistic?
We are just a consequence of exploding gas, so really what is the point?

I cannot understand for the life of me how there could not be something or someone that caused us to be.
In fact I cannot even fathom the conception of the universe.

I would like to hear some thoughts from those that do not believe in a higher authority or power, or indeed an afterlife.

[Lidless]

In 1931, the Czech-born mathematician Kurt Gödel demonstrated that within any system, there would always be some propositions that couldn't be proven either true or false using the rules and axioms of that system itself. You might be able to prove every conceivable statement within a system by going outside the system in order to come up with new rules and axioms, but by doing so you'll only create a larger system with its own unprovable statements.

The implication is that all logical system of any complexity are, by definition, incomplete; each of them contains, at any given time, more true statements than it can possibly prove according to its own defining set of rules.

Hence the idea of God, Dark Matter, the mysterious X that balances the equation and conveniently solves the riddle to the enquiring mind. So much easier to say "God is" that "the universe is".

In other words, because we are confined to the universe, it is impossible for us to know the "how". As to whether there is even a "why" is dubious at best.

[Holbytla]

Ok.
Now what do you think?