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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:40 pm 
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My son Rob and I were going at it, hammer and tong, last night over the following:

Ken is 81 and his wife Ev is 76. They entered a contest where the grand prize was a trip to Puerto Vallarta worth $5,000. They gave their ages as being in their late 60s.

They won the contest. But the contest people learned that Ken is 80 and Ev is 76, and they said "No one under 19 or over 69 was eligible to win, so you are disqualified."

I ASSUME they lied about their ages BECAUSE they knew they weren't eligible. I'm not perfectly sure WHY they lied, but I know they did and my vast reasoning powers lead me to suspect they lied because they knew the contest was open only to people between 19 and 69.

They protested. They protested on this ground: "Asking for our ages is an invasion of privacy. That's why we put our ages as we did." Now, to me this is absolute BS. They weren't asked to enter the contest, no one forced them to enter it AND THEY LIED ABOUT THEIR AGES. :rage: :rage: :rage: It's not an invasion of privacy, for pete's sake. If you don't want to answer the question, don't enter the bloody contest.

However, they got a cash payout of $3,000 from the contest people.

My son Rob shrugs and says, "The age thing was illegal, it's age discrimination" and I say, "That's a separate issue and you know it. They LIED deliberately in order to evade the contest rules. Two wrongs don't make a right."

The thing about this that is particularly galling to me is that these people are my youngest sister's in-laws. Ken is a retired railroad cop and a more hardline rightwing guy you are NEVER going to meet. He would make Rush Limbaugh look like a Leftie. Had my Tay or my niece Hayley entered this contest and lied about being 19 he would have demanded they be tarred and feathered and we would have had to endure a five hour lecture on the declining morals of Canadian youth and how if they brought back the strap in schools and the noose for murder, why Canada would return to its glory days. (Yeah, the glory days when railroad bulls like Ken used to beat people like my uncle Bill half to death for being cold and hungry . . .but we'll leave that for now . . . :x )

My Mum was telling me about this yesterday and she was about as upset as she's ever been about anything. Nothing upsets my Mum as much as a lie. She can forgive murder quicker than a lie; I have never known anyone as literally truthful as my Mum. Sometimes, too truthful. :D As in this case, because when Ken and Ev were bragging about having got the $3,000, Mum said, "You took the money even though you LIED about your age? That's terrible!!!" Oh, I wish I'd been there to see and hear her say it. :D

Anyway, Rob's argument was that since age discrimination is illegal, they were perfectly fine with lying about their ages and the contest people had no choice but to pay them out. I think he's full of it and I threatened him with a wooden spoon, at which point he laughed and went away. Grrr.

So, I wanna know, Halofirians, should the contest people have given them the money? By god, I wouldn't have. I would have fought the hypocritical old fart all the way to the Supreme Court, but then, that's because I know him, I admit.

But on general principles?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:48 pm 
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vison wrote:
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This is absolute BS. They weren't asked to enter the contest, no one forced them to enter it AND THEY LIED ABOUT THEIR AGES. Rage Rage Rage It's not an invasion of privacy, for pete's sake. If you don't want to answer the question, don't enter the bloody contest.


I agree with that statement 100%.

If they had an issue with the age rules of the contest they should have taken the competition organizers to court to try ond overturn the rules of entry first. If they had been awarded the money as compensation for being denied entry then that would have been different.

To deliberately lie and therefore knowingly break the rules of entry indisputably earns disqualification, and they should not have been paid off, IMO.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:51 pm 
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Was the money given as an award for winning the contest, or as a settlement to avoid an age discrimination lawsuit?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:57 pm 
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Dave_LF wrote:
Was the money given as an award for winning the contest, or as a settlement to avoid an age discrimination lawsuit?


Probably a settlement just to make them go away. Ken and Ev never said anything about "age discrimination", it was "invasion of privacy" they blathered on about.

I agree they could have brought an action for "age discrimination", because the contest might actually have been breaking the law on that basis. But that's not what they were objecting to. And they didn't threaten a lawsuit, as far as I know, because you know, lawyers actually expect to get paid and these people are constitutionally tightfisted.

The "under 19" thing is legal, I guess, since the contest prize was sending people off to Mexico. And I imagine the "no one over 69" thing was because travel insurance once you're 70 is almost unaffordable.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:40 pm 
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Lying is wrong, period. Lying for gain is wronger, if you get my drift. Of course I might make some footnotes for dire situations. Lying for gain when you are prone to preach and harangue others about their morality is so wrong that from an ethical standpoint it cannot be seen except with a very powerful telescope.

Restricting older people from entering a contest ain't right either, but at least the contest people were perfectly forthright about it, and it's their prerogative to set the rules.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:57 pm 
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I am just amazed that I know someone who knows someone who actually won one of these things. I thought that never happened.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:05 pm 
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I don't know how to call it. The couple should have challenged them on the privacy/age-discrimination thing off the bat instead of lying and then making a stink about it later. However, there's nothing illegal about misrepresenting your age on a contest entry form, but it sounds like it may be illegal to restrict your contest to people under 70. If that's the case, then handing them a settlement to prevent a lawsuit/bad publicity might be reasonable. Was another winner selected?

Consider this situation: Joe is gay. He applies for a job in a conservative location. During the interview, his would-be boss says "you're not a homo, are you"? Joe panics and says no. He gets hired. Later, his boss discovers Joe is gay and fires him for lying during the interview. Does Joe have a right to demand his job back? I'd say so, because employers are not allowed to ask about sexual orientation during interviews to begin with. That fact that he lied in response to the illegal question doesn't matter. (I know this is not exactly analogous. I picked an extreme example to show how one might view similar behavior sympathetically under different circumstances).


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:53 pm 
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Lying on the form may not be illegal, but if done with intent to deceive, it's unethical and possibly tortuous. I agree with Elentari--if they wanted to make a stand and/or a stink, the time to do so was going in. One can make an argument that it's civil disobedience at that point...not perhaps a great argument, but an argument.

What it sounds like to me is that they have a bad case of "the rules don't apply to me because X" going on. The exact nature of X doesn't really matter, because it's an excuse.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:22 pm 
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Mahima wrote:
I am just amazed that I know someone who knows someone who actually won one of these things. I thought that never happened.


My youngest sister wins contests all the time. Her in-laws entered this contest because she says it's easier to win than you think and, guess what? She was right.

Honestly, in the last few years she's won well over $100,000 in prizes. In 2007 or 2008, I forget which, she won a $40,000 "home makeover". She's won cruises, 2 trips to England that I can recall, and a trip to England and France for 2 weeks for 4, so she and her husband and kids went. She won a big screen TV - just after they bought one! Valentine's day of 2006 she won a 1/2 carat diamond ring. She won tickets to Toronto to see Bruce Springsteen a while back, and a trip to see U2. That's only a few of the things she's won.

She belongs to a contest-entering forum rather like The Hall of Fire, believe it or not. She's made friends there as we make friends here. She doesn't tell her workmates about her wins any more because some of them were getting snotty about it. It's her hobby, she finds it fun and relaxing. She has a high-powered demanding job and 2 teenagers, so relaxing and fun is what she needs. :D

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:45 pm 
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Fun, relaxing, and bringing in 100K over a few years? I could use a hobby like that. :)

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‘There’s no greys, only white that’s got grubby. I’m surprised you don’t know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That’s what sin is.’
‘It’s a lot more complicated than that -’
‘No. It ain’t. When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they’re getting worried that they won’t like the truth. People as things, that’s where it starts.’
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:10 pm 
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But you've got HoF! Wait; didn't V send you your check?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:27 pm 
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Frelga wrote:
Fun, relaxing, and bringing in 100K over a few years? I could use a hobby like that. :)


Well, nothing's stopping you - or me - from entering contests. I just never do. :scratch:

I've been to one of the websites and mooched around. I think this could be the one Lo goes to. Not sure:

http://www.canadasweepstakes.com/

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:32 pm 
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not something I would recommend
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Canadians only??!? Discrimination!! I'll sue!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:36 pm 
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yovargas wrote:
Canadians only??!? Discrimination!! I'll sue!!!


Settle down:

http://www.contestqueen.com/resources/u ... sites.html

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:42 pm 
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Dave_LF wrote:
But you've got HoF! Wait; didn't V send you your check?


:rofl:

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:56 pm 
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:shock: :rofl:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:01 am 
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Wait, he was supposed to send me a check? :shock: :rage: :3face: :grouphug:

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‘There’s no greys, only white that’s got grubby. I’m surprised you don’t know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That’s what sin is.’
‘It’s a lot more complicated than that -’
‘No. It ain’t. When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they’re getting worried that they won’t like the truth. People as things, that’s where it starts.’
Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:58 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:16 am 
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A bunch of commies, the lot of you. :nono:

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‘There’s no greys, only white that’s got grubby. I’m surprised you don’t know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That’s what sin is.’
‘It’s a lot more complicated than that -’
‘No. It ain’t. When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they’re getting worried that they won’t like the truth. People as things, that’s where it starts.’
Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:28 am 
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I understand Dave's point, but I think the thing Ken and Ev did was a lie that didn't need to be a lie to protect themselves. Dave's story is one of self protection. Kens is one of greed basically, IMO.

Of course it's discrimimation on both parts, but why not be honest up front in both cases.

Lying is never the best way to go, especially if you are lying to yourself about things. Telling those lies to others to justify your own bad behavior can fool some people, but there is always always someone who knows the truth. Sometimes there are more than just one person who knows the truth.
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and
I never got my check... :x

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