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 Post subject: Blood libel
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:43 pm 
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When I converted to Catholicism I had to cast about for a patron saint. So delving into Butler one of the first Williams to pop up was William of Norwich. Who was he? Well, poor William was a child martyr, so goes the official line- his mutilated body was discovered in the woods, and it was "obvious" to the local clergy that he had been murdered by Jews, his blood collected for making Passover matzah:
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THIS martyr was another victim of the implacable rage of the Jews against our holy religion...predestined to martyrdom from the beginning of time, he gradually step by step was drawn on, and chosen to be made a mock of and to be put to death by the Jews, in scorn of the Lord's Passion, as one of little foresight, and so the more fit for them....Then the boy, like an innocent lamb, was led to the slaughter.... Having shaved his head, they stabbed it with countless thorn-points, and made the blood come horribly from the wounds they made.


Similar cases such as Simon of Trent ("In 1472 the Jews in the city of Trent determined to vent their hate against the Crucified by slaying a Christian child at the coming Passover..."and Hugh of Lincoln (cf Chaucer's Prioress' Tale) are found throughout the Middle Ages- most every such case being of course the pretext for yet another pogrom against local Jews. The Blood Libel was a staple of European antisemitism:

Quote:
A very learned Jew, who in our day has been converted to the (Christian) faith, informs us that one enjoying the reputation of a prophet among them, toward the close of his life, made the following prediction: 'Be assured that relief from this secret ailment, to which you are exposed, can only be obtained through Christian blood ("solo sanguine Christiano").' This suggestion was followed by the ever-blind and impious Jews, who instituted the custom of annually shedding Christian blood in every province, in order that they might recover from their malady.


So is this something lost in the ignorant medieval past? Not hardly:


Quote:
Al-Manar has made the Protocols of the Elders of Zion – Hitler’s textbook for the Holocaust – into a soap opera.

Episode by episode, the series peddles the fantasy of the Jewish world conspiracy: Jews unleashed both world wars, Jews discovered chemical weapons, Jews destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki with nuclear bombs, in short, Jews have brought nothing but death and destruction upon humanity. The most bloodthirsty scenes are brought into Muslim family homes by Al-Manar. In one such scene a Rabbi says to a young Jew, “we have received an order from above. We need the blood of a Christian child for the unleavened bread for the Pesach [Passover] feast.” In the following shot, a terrified youngster is seized from the neighbourhood. Then the camera zooms in on the child for a close-up of his throat being cut. The blood spurts from the wound and pours into a metal basin.


http://www.matthiaskuentzel.de/contents ... iddle-east

Now this is what one would expect from al-Manar (indeed, from most major media in the Middle East.

But now Sweden's Aftonbladet, the country's largest-circulation newspaper, has run this:
Quote:
"They plunder the organs of our sons," read the headline in Sweden's largest daily newspaper, the left-leaning Aftonbladet, which devoted a double spread in its cultural section to the article.

The report quotes Palestinian claims that young men from the West Bank and Gaza Strip had been seized by the Israel Defense Forces, and their bodies returned to the families with missing organs.

"'Our sons are used as involuntary organ donors,' relatives of Khaled from Nablus said to me, as did the mother of Raed from Jenin as well as the uncles of Machmod and Nafes from Gaza


What is it that permits the continuation of this libel even into modern times, and in the most 'respectable' of nations, one usually held up as the paragon of Western societies? Why the apparently eternal hatred of the Jew, beyond all other faiths?


Last edited by solicitr on Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Blood libel
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:07 pm 
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not something I would recommend
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solicitr wrote:
Why the apparently eternal hatred of the Jew, beyond all other faiths?


For years I've wondered that myself with little answer forthcoming. :neutral:

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:56 pm 
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Fear of The Other.
Jealousy.
Resentment.
Narrow mindedness.
It is easier to blame others than to remedy our own faults. Take your pick.

One other factor to consider is the role of ecumenical tolerance in the modern world as opposed to the "there is only one true religion and its mine" that came out of Christianity and the Protestant reformation.

My maternal grandmother, born in Poland at the turn of the 20th century, once got very mad at me when I was a child when I told her that Jesus was a Jew. She was quite adamant that Jesus was a Roman Catholic just like we were and that all Jews were going to burn in hell. The amount of anti-semitism and outright hatred for all things Jewish was rampant among European Catholics and is not to be underestimated. Sadly, they brought that with them to the USA where it found a friendly home that was long established.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:51 pm 
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OK, SF: but why Jews in particular, rather than other 'others' like Buddhists, Bahai or Parsees? And how does this ugliness survive in the mainstream of 21st-century Europe, indeed very Lutheran (and supposedly tolerant) Sweden?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:40 pm 
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Such hateful prejudice makes me ill. Why are you dredging it up, Solicitr? It may still be alive in the wacko fringe, but we do not see it in day to day life.

According to Catholic.org,

St. William of Norwich
Feastday: formerly March 26
1144

Supposed martyr. According to discredited tradition, he was a young boy and an apprentice to a tanner in Norwich, England. William was murdered by two Jews in a terrible ceremony prompted by a hatred for Christ. There is no evidence to support the legend, and it declined owing to papal displeasure in the years prior to the Reformation. It is now suppressed.

Edit:had wrong threadstarter name, sorry!

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Last edited by narya on Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:35 pm 
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But, narya, that's rather the point. It's not dead, and apparently it's not confined to the kook fringe- not only throughout the Muslim world, but in a *mainstream European paper.* To make matters worse, the Swedish government has angrily rebuffed calls to condemn the piece! No, it's still alive, and closing our eyes to it is worse than useless.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:01 am 
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solicitr wrote:
OK, SF: but why Jews in particular, rather than other 'others' like Buddhists, Bahai or Parsees? And how does this ugliness survive in the mainstream of 21st-century Europe, indeed very Lutheran (and supposedly tolerant) Sweden?


Because there were very few Buddhists in Europe compared to Jews in the Middle Ages. Why it survived? Can't talk to that one.

Jews weren't alone though. Pagans (burn the witch) and Muslims were both somewhat regular people to find in or near Europe, and they also got some harassment.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 4:37 am 
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Link

Interestingly, the Protocols is a long since discredited forgery that these Al-Manar was using (I realize this thread is two months old).

Using Jews as scape goats has been more widespread than other groups across history, though I can't say why. Perhaps it is because they did not relent and become christians? Perhaps it has to do with the fact that christianity and islam both came from judaism?


Last edited by TheEllipticalDisillusion on Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:28 pm 
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I think a group that stays a distinct minority, but lives in close proximity to a majority 'other' (in terms of language and religion) is likely to get caught up in centuries-long hatred. I imagine the Kurds, for instance, or the Basque, or the Bosnians, would see some similarities between these stories and their own.


The Palestinian story, though, is one that could probably be discredited with a little investigation. I mean, bodies turning up with organs missing is unusual, and there would be physical evidence, etc. Urban legends are meant to prey on fears (getting snatched for medical experiments! :abducted:), but also rely on stereotypes and racism and hatred of enemies. A journalist should recognize one when they find one, and a scrupulous journalist, anyway should do some fact-checking before writing a sensational story.

I have no doubt that William really was found dead in the woods, or that the young Palestinians were found a bit cut up. The question is...where does the rest of the story come from, but imagination?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:38 pm 
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I wonder if it's because the Jews have demonstrated remarkable longevity. As others have pointed out, others have been charged with similar evils throughout history ... but perhaps have not maintained so distinct a minority presence, throughout these many centuries (millennia, really), in so many different countries, and through so much persecution and genocide. Perhaps the extraordinary thing is not that the same old tired anti-Semitism hasn't died, but that the Jews have survived (and arguably thrived) despite at all.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:55 pm 
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True; what other people who was scattered in the Middle East nearly 2000 years ago is still around (as a people) today? Cultures can sometimes withstand the rise and fall of empires, but not always.

And, if it will be permitted, I will make the snarky comment that the Jewish people are, after all, God's chosen people. That's likely to cause both persecution and longevity.

Gamaliel's advice on how to handle the Christians of his time recorded in the book of Acts could easily be turned around for how the Christians approach the Jews.

Quote:
"So in the present case, I say to you, stay away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or action is of men, it will be overthrown; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them; or else you may even be found fighting against God."


Or, as Teresa of Avila put it, "God, if this is how you treat your friends, it's no wonder you have so few!"



As for St. William, I think that St. William of Vercelli or St. William of York would be preferable.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:14 pm 
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Quote:
And, if it will be permitted, I will make the snarky comment that the Jewish people are, after all, God's chosen people. That's likely to cause both persecution and longevity.


Ah, so the answer is jealousy! :blackeye:


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:23 pm 
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As for St. William, I think that St. William of Vercelli or St. William of York would be preferable.


Believe it or not, I wound up with St. Cloud (my middle name).


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 3:13 pm 
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Wonderful.. Now the UN's Orwellian-named "Human Rights" Council is spreading the blood libel:

UN propagates Israeli organ theft allegation


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:46 pm 
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Out of curiosity, how do you know its not true? Surely the UN are obliged to at least look into it if its submitted to them. I'm not really understanding the outrage here.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:38 am 
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:bang:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:22 am 
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Gee. Thanks for your insightful response. Makes me glad I bothered even trying.


:nono:

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:06 pm 
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I'm a little puzzled that 'human rights' are Orwellian. :scratch:

Solictr, for all its rhetoric, the article simply seems to be stating that the Council is investigating a submission made to it. Which, in fact, they are compelled to do even if the allegations subsequently prove to be false.

The submission does refer to press reports but it also mentions criminal investigations in the US – do you know more about this latter aspect?

The other point I’d note is that there are 18 submissions and letters on the HRC’s agenda for that day, all relating to the subject ‘Human rights situation in Palestine and other occupied Arab territories’. All the items are non-confidential and thus publically available. Ghastly as its allegations are, the EAFORD submission is being considered in this context.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:25 pm 
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The HRC's agenda *always* relates to "Human rights situation in Palestine and other occupied Arab territories.’" Why Orwellian-named? Because this gang which calls itself a "Human Rights" council consists of Cuba, China, Saudi Arabia... you name 'em, the worst human rights abusers in the world. Even Human Rights Watch- no friend of Israel- has said "the council has fallen under the control of a bloc of Islamic and African states, usually backed by China, Cuba and Russia, who protect each other from criticism." The keynote speaker at their last summit in Geneva was... Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. This would be like a DOJ Organized Crime Unit staffed by Al Capone, Lucky Luciano and John Gotti.

And this body only, ever, denounces Israel. Ever. That's what they do. Sudan? Nope. North Korea? Nope. Burma, Zimbabwe, Tibet, Iran, Cuba? Not a peep. It's all Israel, all the time. In fact, the Council is abolishing its special rapporteurs for Belarus, Cuba, Burma and North Korea- apparently no human rights issues exist there.

My God, people- "If Ghadaffi makes an accusation, there must be some truth to it"? Seriously? You believe the IDF hunts down innocent Paelestinians and kills them for their livers? Sheesh, maybe next the Swedes can accuse them of using the blood of Christian babies to make matzoh- people believed that one, too.

No, there is nothing there. The Aftonbladet story was embarrassingly unsourced, provided no evidence: a collection of rumor and gossip as substantial as tales of UFO abductions. Aftonbladet's editor later admitted that the paper had "no evidence" for its claims. This is an example of the sort of lurid crap it contained:
Quote:
"While the campaign was running, young Palestinian men started to disappear from villages in the West Bank and Gaza. After five days Israeli soldiers would bring them back dead, with their bodies ripped open." Mr. Bostrom adds, "There were rumors of a dramatic increase of young men disappearing, with ensuing nightly funerals of autopsied bodies."
The idea for this convenient untruth may well have begun with the infamous 2006 Turkish film Valley of the Wolves Iraq, which features Jewish Dr Mengeles at Abu Ghraib sadistically removing organs from living Arab victims for shipment to wealthy Jews in Tel Aviv and New York; or perhaps in the 2004 Iranian TV series called “Zahra’s Blue Eyes,” about an Israeli government program to steal eyes and other organs from Palestinian children. But Bostrom was even worse, trying to claim reality for this snuff-porn fantasy, a shameless liar and a sorry excuse for a 'journalist':

Quote:
according to recent in-person interviews with the family by the Jerusalem Post, Ghanem's mother, Sadeeka Ghanem, "denied that she had told any foreign journalist that her son's organs had been stolen." Another relative agreed, saying the family never told Mr. Bostrom Israel stole organs from the dead man's body.


(Incidentally, the "criminal case in the US" relates to the NJ ring busted for illegally selling legally harvested origins; some of the principals were Jews (and most were not) It had nothing to do with murder-for-parts)).

A few debunkings of this hateful rubbish, now given a new lease on life by the Useless Nuisance:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 49876.html



http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1125595.html

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/08/swedi ... story.html





It's amazing, and revolting, how successful the Palestinians and their allies (left and right- Stormfront and Counterpunch have both been peddling this story) have been in trying to portray Israel as the reincarnation of the Third Reich- notwithstanding the debunking of lie after lie after lie the Pallys have happily told. I'm afraid that more people than not still believe that a massacre occurred in Jenin in 2002. And, hey! Now they get added exposure thanks to the UN, whose augustnessism in some eyes, at least, grants 'legitimacy.'


Last edited by solicitr on Thu Apr 01, 2010 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:19 pm 
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from Solicitr

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This would be like a DOJ Organized Crime Unit staffed by Tony Soprano, Vito Corleone and John Gotti.


Two out of those three are fictional creations out of someones vivid imagination. Perhaps a stronger comparison could be made with real people from the real world? Just saying. ;)

And Vito and Tony were very sympathetic characters who attracted quite a following of admirers. Charisma goes a long way in this world.

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