Heathens

Post by **Berhael** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:37 pm

vison wrote:I'm afraid "seeker" doesn't describe me. I am not looking. I'm already there, and I found it long ago.

"Appreciator"? "Lover"? "Child of the Universe"? "Grain of sand"?

I love "Grain of Sand", vison. I'm another one who can be described as an agnostic (the factual word I use to describe myself) and a heathen (the one I use half-jokingly). I'm most definitely godless and not a pagan, although paganism and Wicca hold certain attractions for me, the same way Shinto does. I love nature and can feel its awesomeness, but then I think that's because I'm a child of Romanticism and, like Byron, 'I live not in myself, but I become/ Portion of that around me, and to me/ High mountains are a feeling'.

I think Ethel wrote somewhere that she lacked the religious gene. I remember watching a documentary about how some scientific studies have considered religiousness to be a characteristic of certain brains, like the ability to do maths or music, whch I also lack. Whatever it is, I don't have it. I have never, since I can remember, believed in God, and I certainly don't believe in organised religion. However, I do acknowledge its power to console, so sometimes I wish I had it, like I wish I had someone to blame or curse at when things go wrong (still, I like thinking that when good things happen to me, it's because of my own effort, not divine intervention

). I just can't bring myself to believe, and I think that if I need to make an effort, if faith doesn't come naturally to me, then I'm faking it and it's worthless.

I'm certainly not a Seeker (I've read Harry Potter too

). I'm perfectly happy with who and what I am, and I don't seek for any ultimate truths. In fact, I am quite the cultural relativist, so I don't believe in ultimate truths.

Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:09 pm

Hi Ber!

Nice to see you here.

Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:00 am

I want to chime in here as another heathen. If a religion gene does exist, I most definitely do not have it. Nothing seems more illogical and unnecessary than worshipping a divinity that you can't understand. Surely there are some seemingly supernatural forces in this universe that rise to the level of divine, and no we won't understand them all, but that's okay with me. The unknown is not to be known, or else it would be called another name.

I don't exactly like grain of sand as a descriptor. I much prefer "speck in the universe", and my time here is "in the blink of the universal eye". I'll rot in the ground for some time before I decompose, and aid the soil, and then when the Earth is finished, I'll be nothing, and I won't care.

My existence is as meaningful as I make it.

Post by **Berhael** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:31 am

You know TED, that, together with vison's post, is more beautiful and inspiring to me than the thousands of lines of religious poetry I've ever read.

Hi V!

Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:56 pm

Thanks, ber.

Post by **Meneltarma** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:48 pm

*agrees with Ber*

There's something terribly exhilirating about it, isn't there?

Post by **Berhael** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:53 pm

Freedom.

Post by **Ethel** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:00 pm

I think I might need to be banned. I keep coming back to this thread.

Post by **vison** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:12 pm

Ethel wrote:I think I might need to be banned. I keep coming back to this thread.

Like a moth to the flame, Ethel?

Or: Et, too, ya brute?

Lovely, lovely to see you here, regardless of the reason. You are sorely missed.

And how was Auld Reekie?

Post by **The Watcher** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:15 pm

Count me in as agnostic/deistic/heathen.

For me, creation is at best an academic enterprise. I love pondering on all of it and marvel in what has resulted, but I do not worship it, and have absolutely no desire or inclination to do so. In my very weird belief set, I think we are part of the universe, and that all we need to do is to acknowledge and entertain those ideas in terms of the purpose of things or the hereafter. We are nothing more or less than cosmic dust, we are interconnected to everything out there and for that matter, would not be here at all without such events that occurred over the last several billions of years.

Do I worship a supernova? Do I worship the laws of physics? Do I worry about whether I go to Hell or Heaven depending on which human based worship system I do or do not subscribe to? The answer to all of these questions is NO.

Post by **Erunáme** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:53 pm

I was going to post a link, but I'm second-guessing myself. I'll just say that anyone who doesn't lurk at ToB might want to check out The Salon.

Post by **The Watcher** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:57 pm

Eruname wrote:I was going to post a link, but I'm second-guessing myself. I'll just say that anyone who doesn't lurk at ToB might want to check out The Salon.

Do not post the link. It is up to others to follow up or not as they choose to.

Post by **Erunáme** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:23 am

Uh, that's why I didn't.

I have to say, I don't really like the way you posted that. I feel like a little kid being told off and don't appreciate it.

Post by **The Watcher** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:51 am

Eruname wrote:Uh, that's why I didn't.

I have to say, I don't really like the way you posted that. I feel like a little kid being told off and don't appreciate it.

Eruname -

I am sorry. I did not mean to offend, I simply meant that sometimes, obvious links only seem to convey a need for an intended outcome. Im this case, I think that the outcome was only meant to be what it was meant to be on another board.

My apologies, and you are most certainly have very valid and most insightful comments. I know my tone has seemed rather harsh lately, I am trying to be as non specific and non inflammatory as possible, and that seems to be backfiring.

I do not know how to post here without seemingly offending. If I say what I think, I get comments, if I try to make observations, I get comments, all I am trying to say in this case is that the person on TOB started the thread there, and was not looking for instant sympathy, merely explaining their own outlook.

Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:54 am

Berhael wrote:Freedom.

I too am not an adherent of any particular faith. I never have been, and I sincerely doubt that I ever will be. My own beliefs about spirituality are intensely personal, and fiercely independent.

Nonetheless, I certainly do not believe that that in any way makes me "more free" then people that do believe in a particular creed. I think that freedom, like beauty, is in the eyes of the beholder. Different people have different paths to tred. It is not my place to judge them. Part of my own spiritual journey has been to learn to celebrate the spiritual paths of all of my brothers and sisters, be they Heathen, Pagan, Taoist, Buddhist, Jewish, Muslim, Christian or anything else.

Post by **Erunáme** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:09 am

I do not know how to post here without seemingly offending. If I say what I think, I get comments, if I try to make observations, I get comments,

I feel that way as well. What put me off is the "Do not" part. It seemed like a command. Saying "I think it's best not to..." would have been nicer...but that's me.

all I am trying to say in this case is that the person on TOB started the thread there, and was not looking for instant sympathy, merely explaining their own outlook.

Which is why I wanted to point some people in the proper direction as the problem started here and with the people who post here.

Post by **Jnyusa** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:30 am

Eru, thanks for the heads-up, as some of our members would not have known about it but would have liked to read it. It seems that Ethel did want the Halofirians to feel welcome to read her thread, and it's true that her explanation was prompted by what happened here, so that was a good thing.

But I understand why you and Watcher both would have wondered whether that were her intention, and I think Ethel can post the link herself if she wants the thread shared more explicitly with the people on this board. (Or she can tell one of us to go ahead and post the link if that's all right with her.)

Jn

Post by **Holbytla** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:31 am

Eru the problem certainly did not start here.
The problem started before you or I were born.
And I saw nothing wrong with what was posted here.
If you are irked by such benign words, then my dear you need to check your own sensitivity level.
I have no problem saying this to you because I know you know where I am coming from. You know who and what I am. I am your friend.
Take a deep breath and think.

Post by **Erunáme** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:39 am

The splitting of friendships started here Holby.

I had no problems with what was posted by Ethel as well.

To be honest, your post doesn't help me much. I'm sorry, but someone telling me to check my sensitivity level makes me feel very defensive. I do realize you're trying to help me.

.
.
.

Yet again, I'm reminded that I should not enter into these threads. I wonder how many times I have to touch the stove before I finally get that it hurts me.

Post by **Holbytla** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:46 am

It isn't the threads.
It isn't what I said.
I know where you are.
You know I know where you are.
It is like having a migraine and expecting the world to keep quiet.
It isn't going to happen.
Stop withdrawing and stop being rubbed raw by every little thing.
I have wasted too much of my life doing that and it kills me to see it going on.