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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:21 pm 
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That's well and good, but as the wise and powerful Sassy has already pointed out, it skirts the question asked in this thread.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:31 pm 
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I thought the question was, is it possible for a human to be God without knowing it, and my answer is, yes it is, and that's what I think we are.

Now, if you want to discuss specifically the idea of one person being God among the rest of us who aren't, then I have to say that this is not what I believe. That is, the idea doesn't fit my belief about God and humanity, so much so that I can't fit it into my view of the world. Which makes me all the more eager to hear how you think it would work. :poke:

I know nothing about Rastafari. :oops:

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‘There’s no greys, only white that’s got grubby. I’m surprised you don’t know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That’s what sin is.’
‘It’s a lot more complicated than that -’
‘No. It ain’t. When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they’re getting worried that they won’t like the truth. People as things, that’s where it starts.’
Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:41 pm 
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I'm sorry, Frelga. That was very harsh of me and uncalled for. My apologies.

The truth is, I don't really think anything about it at all. :oops:

'We are lost, lost. No name, no business, no Precious, nothing. Only empty.'

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:44 pm 
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Frelga, my understanding is that Voronwë wanted us to indulge in a speculative intellectual excercise, on the possibility of God, unaware of his/her own divinity, as a human being.

He introduced the idea of Haille Selassie who was revered as a living god by Rastafarians and proceeded from there to ask the question ... is it possible to be God and not know it? And if so, how would the divine nature be manifest? As in, the One God. Not as in our own personal beliefs which may include the idea that we all carry a divine spark.

I haven't contributed any further to this thread because, IMO, it went way off topic into personal points of view, which while interesting in their own right, begged the question.
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Edit:
The truth is, I don't really think anything about it at all

That's too bad. I think it's an interesting question.

OTOH, I don't want to offend anyone's religious sensibilities so perhaps it's best to just let the matter drop.

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"Too many Fingolfins, not enough Sams."

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:58 pm 
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V, good heavens, no, you were not harsh! I'm just confused, and trying to get a better definition of the subject.

As for offensive... that is in the eyes of beholder. I would hope that most of us can read about someone else's beliefs as long as we are not expected to share them. ;)

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‘There’s no greys, only white that’s got grubby. I’m surprised you don’t know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That’s what sin is.’
‘It’s a lot more complicated than that -’
‘No. It ain’t. When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they’re getting worried that they won’t like the truth. People as things, that’s where it starts.’
Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:44 pm 
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So the question is what if someone was god in human form and didn't know it?

How would that make them any different from the rest of us then? If you are a god and don't know it, it wouldn't make you a very smart god would it.

This reminds me of when Luke made C-3PO fly around in RoTJ. 3PO didn't know he had it in him. Did it actually make him a god, well to the ewokes it did.

Personally if I was a god, I'd want to know it, and if I didn't know it what good would that do me. I'd be just like all the other mortals here. And would be really mad once I died and found out I was a god. I'd be alright who played this joke on me. And it would mean I was some lesser god, because "God" is all knowing, or supposed to be.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 8:09 am 
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Quote:
'We are lost, lost. No name, no business, no Precious, nothing. Only empty.'


This haunted me all day, Voronwë. Thinking of you!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:25 pm 
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Eric Clapton is God.

The trouble is he knows it.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:19 pm 
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That reminds me of an old, old joke. "Q: What is the difference between Bill Gates and God? - A: God doesn't think he is Bill Gates."

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‘There’s no greys, only white that’s got grubby. I’m surprised you don’t know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That’s what sin is.’
‘It’s a lot more complicated than that -’
‘No. It ain’t. When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they’re getting worried that they won’t like the truth. People as things, that’s where it starts.’
Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:27 pm 
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That's very sweet, Teremia. I was wondering where all that good energy was coming from. Now I know. :)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:55 am 
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Voronwë: I've decided to stay out of this discussion, but I wanted to point out that the book Christ the Lord: Out of Egypt, which we're discussing in the Library of Rivendell, deals directly with this subject.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:36 pm 
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Quote:
I beleive we are all part of God, that we each have some piece of God in us. I also believe that the good we do to others, as well as the bad, we do to God. So to ask me if God is in human form, I would say yes, in all of us, in everything.


That is one of the essences of Quakerism (Society of Friends.) "To walk cheerfully over all the earth, answering that of God in every Man."

And of course, Jesus said, "As much as you do to these, the least of my brethern, you do unto me."

So I think you're pretty much spot on. Not blashphemy at all.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:01 am 
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Sassy said, ...is it possible to be God and not know it? And if so, how would the divine nature be manifest?...

This reminded me (and please forgive the silliness of it) of a passage I read in some book I've long forgotten about...a truck driver who was actually a rain god and didn't know it...everywhere he went, the rain followed him. He thought he was the unluckiest man alive, no matter where he went, summer or winter, it would rain, while all that time, the rain loved him and made its offerings to him as a natural god.

I don't know how to get my brain around the idea of God experiencing the human experience without the awareness of her own divinity...but that doesn't really matter because I'm not God and so my petty brain can't be expected to get itself around that idea. The important thing is, if God wanted to do it, God could do it...God being ineffable and beyond our ken, after all.

But the thing is...I don't think it would make a spot of difference for God to have actually 'had' the human experience, would it? God being all-knowing, would already 'have' the human experience in her knowledge. No?

As to the actual experience, how the divine nature would manifest...would God know lust, greed, anger, envy, fear...? Because human beings know these things and to not know them, not experience them from the inside would mean the experience is not 'human' but merely a sham. A perfect human being defies the definition of human...it is an unsolvable conundrum.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:31 pm 
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:agree:

I am God. I'm just taking a break...

I think we are all 'gods' of sorts. We all have untapped infinite power somewhere in these amazing brains of ours. What one of us does can affect everyone. Even inaction can affect scores of people...

I don't know. I'd like to think that if I were God, I would know it. I mean, how can a 'god' not know something.

Unless...

Does God have a God?

Wow, sounds like a new thread to me.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:52 pm 
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Voronwë wrote:
Would a human manifestation of God necessarily be without faults?


Heck, no! A god would have had enough of omnipotence. It would want to experience a limited reality- which would mean temporary blocking of all memory prior to birth, and a self imposed limit on supernatural powers for the duration of the exercise- or else the experience would be meaningless. How can one pretend at being human unless one restricts oneself to human abilities?

Once the human shell had died, the god could then go over the memories of it's lifetime from the viewpoint of it's normal omniscient self and learn whatever there was to learn from the experience. Or just have a good laugh over it.

This could be happening all the time, with many at once. Omnipotence is a pretty big concept.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:17 pm 
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We are the essence of God, so in a sense we are God.
Well, at least we are all connected, though often we don't see or recognize that connection.
Part of one giant spirit or something maybe.
Then again maybe not. We all could be just so much cosmic debris.
If we are God then we did a heck of a job with Norway and the fjords.

Imp wrote:
Quote:
This reminded me (and please forgive the silliness of it) of a passage I read in some book I've long forgotten about...a truck driver who was actually a rain god and didn't know it...everywhere he went, the rain followed him. He thought he was the unluckiest man alive, no matter where he went, summer or winter, it would rain, while all that time, the rain loved him and made its offerings to him as a natural god.


Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, or rather one of the subsequent books.. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:04 pm 
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Ah, thanks Holby! :) It's been so long since I read those books, I'd forgotten the source.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:06 am 
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Oh, man, hurts my head.

But back in the days when most everyone believed, cuz they had to, Mr. DeCartes backed away from the question and declared that any man, every woman, can know only one thing: that he/she is thinking, and he/she knows it because it is happening at that moment.

That is the only thing a person can know for sure.

Other guesses can come thereafter. But the first postulate makes you, as it were, God.

You think, therefore you are . . . god.

Lower case . . . a common noun . . . just like the rest of us.

baby tuckoo is among you

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:01 pm 
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Holby wrote:
Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, or rather one of the subsequent books..


It was one of the Dirk Gently books, wasn't it?

:scratch:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:46 pm 
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No, it was So Long and Thanks for All The Fish.


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