New theory about Tom Bombadil
- BrianIsSmilingAtYou
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New theory about Tom Bombadil
This has nothing to do with who or what Bombadil is, but it may be a reasonable explanation for why he sings all of the time.
There is a rare and usually incurable disease called Spasmodic Dysphonia in which the one afflicted can no longer speak, but may still be able to sing. (This is a real disease, as strange as it sounds, and it is caused by a disturbance to the area of the brain that controls speech.)
The creator of Dilbert, Scott Adams, recently had an 18 month bout with this disease, and it was reported this week that he was finally cured--although the cure might be temporary.
The Dilbert Blog
Now, if only Doonesbury could solve the mystery of Balrogs' wings...
BrianIs AtYou
There is a rare and usually incurable disease called Spasmodic Dysphonia in which the one afflicted can no longer speak, but may still be able to sing. (This is a real disease, as strange as it sounds, and it is caused by a disturbance to the area of the brain that controls speech.)
The creator of Dilbert, Scott Adams, recently had an 18 month bout with this disease, and it was reported this week that he was finally cured--although the cure might be temporary.
The Dilbert Blog
Now, if only Doonesbury could solve the mystery of Balrogs' wings...
BrianIs AtYou
All of my nieces and nephews at my godson/nephew Nicholas's Medical School graduation. Now a neurosurgical resident at University of Arizona, Tucson.
- Old_Tom_Bombadil
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- BrianIsSmilingAtYou
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That is consistent with the symptoms.Old_Tom_Bombadil wrote:Bombadil didn't always sing.
You know what this makes me think of? Mel Tillis. As you probably know Mel was a stutterer, but had no difficulty singing. I'm wondering if Spasmodic Dysphonia is somehow related to that, or at least effects the same part of the brain. Hmmmm.
BrianIs AtYou
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I would urge anyone who hasn't to click the link to that blog. It's a strange and amazing story.
I hope it works out for him.
I hope it works out for him.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
- BrianIsSmilingAtYou
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Tolkien himself had a speech impediment:Jnyusa wrote:Perhaps Tolkien knew someone who actually suffered from that disability.
Jn
From http://www.etymonline.com/columns/tolkien.htm
Another interesting bit from Davenport's recollections:Guy Davenport, the Appalachian man of letters, once published a remembrance of Tolkien the professor of Old English, who, "had a speech impediment, wandered in his remarks, and seemed to think that we, his baffled scholars, were well up in Gothic, Erse, and Welsh, the grammar of which he freely alluded to. ...
BrianIs AtYou"The closest I have ever gotten to the secret and inner Tolkien," Davenport writes, "was in a casual conversation on a snowy day in Shelbyville, Kentucky. I forget how in the world we came to talk of Tolkien at all, but I began plying questions as soon as I knew that I was talking to a man who had been at Oxford as a classmate of Ronald Tolkien's. He was a history teacher, Allen Barnett. He had never read The Hobbit or The Lord of the Rings. Indeed, he was astonished and pleased to know that his friend of so many years ago had made a name for himself as a writer.
" 'Imagine that! You know, he used to have the most extraordinary interest in the people here in Kentucky. He could never get enough of my tales of Kentucky folk. He used to make me repeat family names like Barefoot and Boffin and Baggins and good country names like that.'
"And out the window I could see tobacco barns. The charming anachronism of the hobbits' pipes suddenly made sense in a new way. The Shire and its settled manners and shy hobbits have many antecedents in folklore and in reality .... Kentucky, it seems, contributed its share.
"Practically all the names of Tolkien's hobbits are listed in my Lexington phone book, and those that aren't can be found over in Shelbyville. Like as not, they grow and cure pipe-weed for a living. Talk with them, and their turns of phrase are pure hobbit: 'I hear tell,' 'right agin,' 'so Mr. Frodo is his first and second cousin, once removed either way,' 'this very month as is.' These are English locutions, of course, but ones that are heard oftener now in Kentucky than in England.
"I despaired of trying to tell Barnett what his talk of Kentucky folk became in Tolkien's imagination. I urged him to read The Lord of the Rings but as our paths have never crossed again, I don't know that he did. Nor if he knew that he created by an Oxford fire and in walks along the Cherwell and Isis the Bagginses, Boffins, Tooks, Brandybucks, Grubbs, Burrowses, Goodbodies, and Proudfoots (or Proudfeet, as a branch of the family will have it) who were, we are told, the special study of Gandalf the Grey, the only wizard who was interested in their bashful and countrified ways."
All of my nieces and nephews at my godson/nephew Nicholas's Medical School graduation. Now a neurosurgical resident at University of Arizona, Tucson.
- Old_Tom_Bombadil
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I've read Humphrey Carpenter's biography of Tolkien and don't recall reading of any speech impediment. I do recall reading that Tolkien was not a strong lecturer, and that his speaking voice was not of the best quality. Also, I have some recordings of Ronald Tolkien reading bits of The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, and The Adventures of Tom Bombadil and I can detect no impediment.
I disagree with this statement:
I disagree with this statement:
At least three characters that I can think of--Gandalf, Aragorn, and Frodo--display Christ-like qualities. Like Jesus, Gandalf returns from the dead, Aragorn the returning king is the heir of Isildur son of Elendil, as Jesus is a direct descendant of David. Finally, Frodo displays attributes of the suffering and sacrificial, or "gentle", Jesus. Doesn't Frodo turn the other cheek when Saruman attempts to stab him?Middle Earth is not C.S. Lewis' Narnia; there's no gentle Jesus in Tolkien, no redemption by faith, no turning the other cheek. The don who taught "Beowulf" reached down into his racial past and evoked the old Teutonic warrior code, where the skilled man and the strength of his sword-arm and the force of his honor strode through the unloving world.
Yes, that analysis is too simplified. Tolkien blended the Northern spirit with his Christian faith while writing LotR - student of Beowulf indeed!
Students of Prof. Tolkien (and even young men [such as M. Colin Havard] who talked to him in the Bird and Baby) have universally reported that Tolkien was very difficult to understand...and to follow. He spoke quickly, and jumped from topic to topic. His voice on the recording is supposed to be much clearer than usual. The only other recording of his voice I am familiar with is a BBC interview, but I doubt I could find the clip now. Here's the TRANSCRIPT, anyway...
Oh, and a Download of the interview, much easier than I thought!
Or try this page.
Still, I would not say he had a speech impediment - I think he just spoke quickly and indistinctly.
Students of Prof. Tolkien (and even young men [such as M. Colin Havard] who talked to him in the Bird and Baby) have universally reported that Tolkien was very difficult to understand...and to follow. He spoke quickly, and jumped from topic to topic. His voice on the recording is supposed to be much clearer than usual. The only other recording of his voice I am familiar with is a BBC interview, but I doubt I could find the clip now. Here's the TRANSCRIPT, anyway...
Oh, and a Download of the interview, much easier than I thought!
Or try this page.
Still, I would not say he had a speech impediment - I think he just spoke quickly and indistinctly.
I agree with your disagreement. I would submit that the themes of forgiveness, redemption and loving-kindness are much stronger in Tolkien than in Lewis. In Narnia, the only choice required is to follow Aslan, and the power is quite clearly on his side. The witch is defined as evil and can only be killed, not redeemed.Old_Tom_Bombadil wrote:I disagree with this statement:At least three characters that I can think of--Gandalf, Aragorn, and Frodo--display Christ-like qualities. Like Jesus, Gandalf returns from the dead, Aragorn the returning king is the heir of Isildur son of Elendil, as Jesus is a direct descendant of David. Finally, Frodo displays attributes of the suffering and sacrificial, or "gentle", Jesus. Doesn't Frodo turn the other cheek when Saruman attempts to stab him?Middle Earth is not C.S. Lewis' Narnia; there's no gentle Jesus in Tolkien, no redemption by faith, no turning the other cheek. The don who taught "Beowulf" reached down into his racial past and evoked the old Teutonic warrior code, where the skilled man and the strength of his sword-arm and the force of his honor strode through the unloving world.
In LOTR, all "bad guys" short of Sauron get a shot at redeeming themselves, and Sauron has had his chances. Boromir takes it. Saruman refuses it, and Gandalf offers it again! Not, I think, because he really hopes that Saruman will change his mind, but because it's the right thing to do. Even Théoden with his "old Teutonic warrior code" offers Grima a chance.
[/sidetrack]
Speech impediment? I have an absolutely wonderfull book of poetry compiled for children (as opposed to written for children, it has Poe and such) and accompanied by a CD of authors and actors reading the poems. And on the CD, there is Professor reading "A merry old inn"! Haven't noticed anything wrong with his diction. Although that IS poetry, so maybe it could be construed as a evidence for the Bombadil effect.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
So, he read his poems for the grammaphone (?) very clearly. He enjoyed getting into voices for Gollum and Treebeard.
But if you want to hear what he really sounded like, check out the 1971 BBC interview I linked. He trails off...gets different ideas, and speaks very rapidly! (Americans may naturally find the accent different....but....well, I don't think I'd call his speech "clear" under any standard.)
That being said, I did not detect any speech impediment. He does not stutter or mis-pronounce anything, and is clearly able to say what he wants to say....he just mutters it all under his breath very quickly!
But if you want to hear what he really sounded like, check out the 1971 BBC interview I linked. He trails off...gets different ideas, and speaks very rapidly! (Americans may naturally find the accent different....but....well, I don't think I'd call his speech "clear" under any standard.)
That being said, I did not detect any speech impediment. He does not stutter or mis-pronounce anything, and is clearly able to say what he wants to say....he just mutters it all under his breath very quickly!
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Thanks for sharing that link, Mith. Yes, Tolkien does speak rapidly and not-too-distinctly, particularly compared to the interviewer (who, one would assume, makes a living based largely on his ability to speak well), but Tolkien doesn't have a speech impediment. Remember, too, that this interview was conducted in 1971 when Tolkien was 79 years old; he died only two years later. Despite his advanced age his mental faculties are still quite sharp.
I have an explanation for Tom's propensity for singing (and whistling). I think the answer lies in the verse, "Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow". Tom sings because he is happy.
Think about what it must mean to be Tom Bombadil. He's immensely old, and obviously knows a great deal, yet he possesses an incredible amount of energy. He's up at the crack of dawn roaming about his small country, leaping over hills, communing with nature.
He is master of his domain. He has no fear. The Ring has no power over him, and neither Old Man Willow nor Barrow-wight daunt him, yet he does not feel compelled to destroy them. He has a sort of laissez-faire philosophy: "let do, let go, let pass." Tom's not the type to lay awake at night worrying about things.
In Goldberry Tom has the perfect partner:
Tom and Goldberry live in a pretty little cottage, far from door-to-door salesmen, telemarketers, the noise of the city, crime, corrupt politicians, and the taxman. You'd sing and whistle all the time, too, if you had such an idyllic existance.
At least I would!
I have an explanation for Tom's propensity for singing (and whistling). I think the answer lies in the verse, "Old Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow". Tom sings because he is happy.
Think about what it must mean to be Tom Bombadil. He's immensely old, and obviously knows a great deal, yet he possesses an incredible amount of energy. He's up at the crack of dawn roaming about his small country, leaping over hills, communing with nature.
He is master of his domain. He has no fear. The Ring has no power over him, and neither Old Man Willow nor Barrow-wight daunt him, yet he does not feel compelled to destroy them. He has a sort of laissez-faire philosophy: "let do, let go, let pass." Tom's not the type to lay awake at night worrying about things.
In Goldberry Tom has the perfect partner:
She's apparently ever young and fair--she has the appearance of "a fair young elf-queen clad in living flowers"--and they are obviously devoted to each other--"Tom has his house to mind, and Goldberry is waiting!"....so fair was the grace of Goldberry and so merry and odd the caperings of Tom. Yet in some fashion they seemed to weave a single dance, neither hindering the other, in and out of the room, and round about the table...
Tom and Goldberry live in a pretty little cottage, far from door-to-door salesmen, telemarketers, the noise of the city, crime, corrupt politicians, and the taxman. You'd sing and whistle all the time, too, if you had such an idyllic existance.
At least I would!
- BrianIsSmilingAtYou
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The following from NPR has more info on Tolkien's speech impediment.
Tolkien attributed his speech impediment to a mouth injury he received playing rugby at Oxford.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=1553102
The info about the speech impediment starts at around time 20:50.
BrianIs AtYou
Tolkien attributed his speech impediment to a mouth injury he received playing rugby at Oxford.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=1553102
The info about the speech impediment starts at around time 20:50.
BrianIs AtYou
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Make that 4 Characters
"At least three characters that I can think of--Gandalf, Aragorn, and Frodo--display Christ-like qualities. Like Jesus, Gandalf returns from the dead, Aragorn the returning king is the heir of Isildur son of Elendil, as Jesus is a direct descendant of David. Finally, Frodo displays attributes of the suffering and sacrificial, or "gentle", Jesus. Doesn't Frodo turn the other cheek when Saruman attempts to stab him? "
Add Sam to the list:
The Suffering Servant: Sam serves another (Frodo) with no thought of his own glory; He gives Frodo all his own water & food, & even carries Frodo up the mountain when he can't carry the ring.
He also is willing to lay down his very life & die to get Frodo to the mountain if you recall the 'discussion' he has with himself while Frodo is sleeping one night: You'll never get there giving him all the food & water...You're a fool Sam Gamgee, you could've laid down & died a long time ago if you weren't so stubburn... I can go a go ways further & will. But, as hope died in Sam's heart, it was turned to resolve... "The way back, if there is one, goes past the mountain."' (paraphase, but pretty close I bet)
Also, on Aragorn: How does the King Return? Through The Pathes of the Dead....
Just like Jesus........
BTW: On Tolkien hearing of that singing syndrome: I wonder if it even was diagnosed or named when he lived. In 1980, there were 100 named pyschological disorders according to a pychologist I know. Today, there are over 400......
20 years ago, you were short; Today, you're
'vertically challanged'.
Add Sam to the list:
The Suffering Servant: Sam serves another (Frodo) with no thought of his own glory; He gives Frodo all his own water & food, & even carries Frodo up the mountain when he can't carry the ring.
He also is willing to lay down his very life & die to get Frodo to the mountain if you recall the 'discussion' he has with himself while Frodo is sleeping one night: You'll never get there giving him all the food & water...You're a fool Sam Gamgee, you could've laid down & died a long time ago if you weren't so stubburn... I can go a go ways further & will. But, as hope died in Sam's heart, it was turned to resolve... "The way back, if there is one, goes past the mountain."' (paraphase, but pretty close I bet)
Also, on Aragorn: How does the King Return? Through The Pathes of the Dead....
Just like Jesus........
BTW: On Tolkien hearing of that singing syndrome: I wonder if it even was diagnosed or named when he lived. In 1980, there were 100 named pyschological disorders according to a pychologist I know. Today, there are over 400......
20 years ago, you were short; Today, you're
'vertically challanged'.
'I am my beloved's and He is mine; And the banner over me is Love'
Apparently, someone agrees with you:kindred spirit wrote:Lexington Kentucky is the Shire!
A Long Expected Party