The Music of the LOTR Films/Rarities Archives: Late 2009

[TheTennisBallKid]

I've been meaning to start this, but kept putting it off until Doug Adams gave a great overview of the entire project.

[for those not in the know, Doug Adams is a writer for Film Score Monthly who is writing a book entitled "The Music of the Lord of the Rings", and he's playing a very active role in the release of the LOTR: Complete Recordings audio disc sets.

FOTR has already been released; TTT will come out this year; and ROTK the next, with the book to follow shortly.]

I listened to the newest edit of the discs in NY about two weeks ago. Right now decisions are being made about tracks breaks, disc breaks, track titles and the such. For the math-minded among you, the liner notes are currently 8,762 words long, but that’ll no doubt shift around a little over the next few weeks. In the meantime, I’m starting to make my way into the Annotated Score material.

Oh and a release date has been set. With good luck, it should be announced shortly. I know Warners is anxious to get their hands on materials soon.

...

When FOTR hit the shelves last December, I got a very friendly call from Howard Shore’s office. (This is not unusual in itself, calls from his office are always friendly because he’s got a cool group of people working for him.) The call was essentially a congratulations for getting through all the Fellowship material (we’d just finished the website material a few days earlier) and to let me know that Mr. Shore was sending a copy of the set to me, so I’d have one of my own shortly. At the end of the call there was a pause then, “Hey by the way, you’d really better start looking at Two Towers, there’s going to be a lot of work on that…”

So after a week of evenings during which I permitted myself to look at something other than a computer screen, the next Monday I started to dig in. This one was going to be work, they were right. I’m drawing my material from the complete book, but whereas the FOTR material had nice rounded beginnings already written, and the ROTK stuff had conclusions in place, the Two Towers material was all middle paragraphs. Well, almost all—thank goodness for Rohan and the Ents! Anyway, I started banging that stuff into some sort of shape, and turned in a first draft of the notes late January / early February. My rough musical examples were put into place as were graphics I invented from DVD captures. Off to New York it all went…

…And it wasn’t much of a hit.

Ok, maybe that’s slightly paranoid, no one threw a fit. In fact, comments were nice—this is a good start—but essential gist was that it felt too much like middle paragraphs. Which is exactly what it was. Too much verbiage relating material to Fellowship or ROTK, not enough on the complex relationships within Two Towers.

Draft two came out about three weeks later. This time everyone was happier, but there was still the sense that it needed more analytical detail, less rehashing of the story.

Draft three was promised in about two more weeks… during which I ran off to speak with Howard at a symphony performance in Cleveland. So this draft was finished in an all night word bender, then sent off at about 3 in the morning. This time it was a hit. Howard’s assistant Alan had been going through most of the editing before this. Howard would read everything, but at this point in the process his comments were more general. Focus more on this, less on that, etc.

Draft three was good enough to go to Howard for specific comments. And when I say specific, I really mean it. Do you like the word “fulminating”? Yeah, well neither does Howard Shore! That’s just one of a handful of deep purple words he asked me to replace or remove. And I’m not even mentioning the specific musical comments. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to sound like I was descended upon by stern taskmasters who raked me over the coals picking over every tiny little word. Comments were always chased with, “It just stuck out to me, but you don’t have to change it if you’re not comfortable.” It’s a wonderfully supportive working environment where everybody is invited to comment on everyone else’s work.

Anyway, at this point we started to find out what graphics we could actually get from New Line. They don’t have hi res captures of every frame of the film, of course, so we have to see what’s in their vaults, and what can be of use to us. Sue from Howard’s staff also began engraving musical examples, most based on my reductions… Over the course of three or four years I’d been visiting NY a couple of times a year to research the written conductor’s scores. I’d jot down materials in the notebooks I kept, enter these into notation software, then send my examples off the Sue who would re-engrave them, and make them a bit slicker looking. Once in a while I’d find that the liners could use an example that I hadn’t jotted down, so I’d have to ask Sue to look something up and create a brand new image.

This all sounds like boring grunt work, but it actually makes a huge difference. We have a certain page count that we can’t go past because we don’t want to up the cost for consumers. This means whatever we turn in to Warner Brothers, we want to show that our page count can be achieved easily. Our mock layout will be copied (and tweaked a bit), but we want to demonstrate something functional. Everything from font size to borders to graphics come into play. We’re not playing with some artistically ideal <i>carte blanche</i>, this is an actual physical thing being designed. It takes a good deal of playing to make it work.

Draft four came and went, as did its notes. Draft five was dated at the beginning of this month, and came back just yesterday (6/27) with notes from Howard’s assistant (Alan), from Howard and from Philippa Boyens. So I spent the better part of yesterday afternoon reorganizing and rejiggering to incorporate all comments, and keep our page count acceptable. We’re down to smaller changes now, so they can be tackled in about a week, for the most part. I’m at 8,805 words currently, by the way, which means I’ve added 43 words and a whole mess of pictures without changing the page count. That’s not as easy as it sounds!

I’m hoping to get finalized track titles this week, as well as a few revised musical examples. Yes, every single dynamic and articulation marking must be checked for accuracy… even if the final excerpt comes out so small it could be printed on the head of a pin! And of course, I need to see if the changes I’ve made are ok with everyone. We’ll probably go through one or two more drafts before we deliver to Warner Brothers. Then after that, we’ll need to proof their work. The layout is critical. The people designing the booklet are not musicians, so we need to make sure that the proper musical examples appear next to the proper paragraphs, etc. while they’re keeping their eyes on visual aesthetics and trying to keep the pages from getting too cluttered.

So does all this sound pretty detailed and laborious? I mean, I know I’m not hauling bricks or mixing cement or anything, but this is pretty intensive work overall. And all this… all this concentration and effort… is just for the liner notes! Imagine the work that’s going in to the packaging. Imagine the work that’s going into the legal affairs and licensing. Imagine the work that’s going into <b>the music</b>!! That’s what it’s all about right?

There’s one chance to do this right. We get one pitch, one swing. If we’re taking a long time in the batting cages… well, it’s because the situation demands it!

Could this be done faster? I don’t know, honestly. Murphy’s Law probably comes into play… but I still think I’d say no. I mean, I guess a product of some kind could be assembled in less time. But really, I don’t think that something of the quality and substance towards which we’re aspiring could be done in a more compressed timeline.

Ok, if you’re still with me, now I’ll go into specific answers:

>>>It's almost july.What about some fresh news?What is Mr. Howard Shore doing?I'm starting to believe that the TTT:CR won't be released this year due to the new LOTR limited edition dvd's.Who would buy 2 LOTR new merchendise released at a period of 3-4 months?And they will also,probably,delay the release date for the LOTR:LE,so the new complete recordings seem far away.If they'll continue this way ,we'll get the ROTK complete recordings on the 10th aniversary.>>>

Beren, you seem to be very emotionally connected to these releases. That’s good, great even. But, please, don’t let that turn negative. At NO time has there been any official discussion of moving the TTT box set’s release date. Suggesting otherwise is both erroneous and misleading in the extreme. More on this below.

>>>This has nothing to do with the emotional,loving atmosphere we were presented in the appendices.Maybe it never did.Maybe it's just about money.More money.I probably (don't) understand how busy Mr. Shore must be,but he could've find time to deal with the new CR.Especially now that LOTR made rich(er) every cast/crew member of the trilogy.>>>

Absolutely NOTHING connected with the creative end of these releases has been motivated by money, and to suggest so… besides again being erroneous in the extreme… is positively insulting to Shore’s integrity. In fact, these sets are probably apt to make money for everyone EXCEPT Howard Shore, as he’s invested so much of his own money. And that being said, none of us will make any money based on sales. If TTT sells two copies or two million, it won’t change anything for us. We’re doing this carefully because our hearts are invested in it, and because we believe in the legacy of what Shore created. That’s it, pure and simple. We’ll drive our accountants nuts, but we’re head-in-the-clouds dreamers who still believe in the intrinsic integrity of art. Any time you see me mention a concern of sales, or number of units… that’s not because it means we’re pulling in bushels of cash each time some poor sucker forks over the dough for the set. (We’re not) It’s because we’re excited to see that people are interested in something we’re poured our effort into.

>>>Even the interest for the new complete recordings(or any LOTR new merchendise)seems to be faded.This thread,for example,looks like it's struggling to post new replies.And the ones that do appear,have nothing to do with the topic.>>>

If you’re looking for specific answers, in most cases I’m simply not allowed to give them yet. Has the set’s color scheme been decided upon? Yes, though I haven’t seen in yet, I know what it is. Can I say what? No, I can’t yet. Is the release date set? Yes, as of very recently, it is. Can I start posting it around the web? Well, no, of course not. There will be an official press release when everyone decides it’s the proper time. Do I know what unreleased bits of music you’ll now be able to hear? Do I know what happens at five minutes into the eighth track? Do I know how many discs it’ll be? Sure, I have to know those things to do my work. That I can’t say anything now doesn’t mean these decisions haven’t been very, very carefully considered. It means that the official announcement hasn’t yet been made, so we’ve not yet pulled the curtain back.

>>>In conclusion,i hope that Mr. Sore and co.(and all the Hollywood;perhaps even the western world)understand that people and feelings should come first instead of profit.I mean this is what the LOTR music is all about.Feelings,right?>>>

I’ll ask you here to perhaps pause a second and read again my comments above regarding the finances of this project.

>>>Yes they will release it(eventually).But i meant that they will postpone it,as they did with the Fotr:CR;and this time with probably at least a month,because of the Limited Edition DVD's.>>>

FOTR was delayed because of legal entanglements that altered the track layout for one of the discs. The lawyers in question contacted Warners at the last possible minute (which was certainly their right), so the date had to be pushed.

>>>You're forgetting that on this same thread(in 2005) it was supposed to be a release of all the CR,togheter.Then each,at a period of 6 months(and now we're almost in july,so 7 months have passed);and now probably more than 12 months because of the new dvd's.>>>

There was never a time when the complete recordings were supposed to be released as one single set—one set to rule them all!  There was never a time when the boxed sets were supposed to be released every 6 months. Both these comments were fan speculation. Fan speculation can be a ton of fun, when it’s A) understood to be speculation, nothing more, nothing less, and B) when it’s kept positive. Beren, I’m not sure what would make you think that the TTT boxed set will be delayed by 12 months, but that’s a pretty negative spin on speculation, isn’t it? Let’s ignore for a second that it’s awfully difficult to “delay” something that hasn’t been officially announced, but what on earth would make you assume such a thing? The DVDs and CDs are coming from the same parent company, so it’s not like the CD people didn’t know the DVDs were coming and vice versa. As EldarionSonOfElessar says, relax. And I don’t mean that in a dismissive, belittling way. I mean it as a concerned friend. Take it easy. You’re working yourself into a froth for no reason.

I will tell you right here: The Two Towers: The Complete Recordings will be out this year. 2006. It will be out earlier in the year than FOTR: CR was. How much, how little? Just wait. I’m not saying because I’m not supposed to say… and because it’s simply too early to begin talking about it.

>>>Finnaly,i must tell you that i read carefully almost the entire thread(except the mindless/nonsense/unrelated to this topic mumblings).

P.S.:This is a film music message board,not one for advertising pills.>>>

I can only assume that this comment is directed at me, and if I am indeed coming off as an “advertising pill” then I am genuinely sorry, Beren. I’m here answering questions because… well, because people are asking questions. Really, the smartest thing I could do is say nothing, because I’ve put myself in the line of fire by offering to spill a few beans here and there while keeping a tight lid on others. But my enthusiasm gets the better of me. I want to be able to tell you everything. Heck, I’d like to buy a few six packs and have you all over to my basement to play you the early edits, show you the current draft of the notes and tell you stories.

That seems a little impractical, though, doesn’t it? Not to mention professionally and legally ill-advised.

But I’m new at all this. Maybe I’ll develop the tight-lipped stony demeanor of a pro later in my career, but for right now, I’m still a bit giddy about the whole thing. You’re right, Beren, LOTR is about emotion, not money. It’s about a lack of cynicism, about enthusiasm. And that’s why I’m here. I’m not trying to ram this release down people’s throats. I’m not trying to convince you all that really, there was only one disc’s worth of decent material, so you should still shell out $60.00 for a third of the product, then sneering out the top of my new convertible while my silk neckerchief billows in the wind. (For the sake of clarity, I’ll stress that I’m joking here… TTT:CR is NOT going to be only one disc long, I don’t have a convertible, and the day I start wearing silk neckerchiefs…. man….)

So, ok, I’m like six pages in now. See why Howard has to ask me to cut the notes back once in a while? 

Beren, I’m glad you care. This set is made for people who care. But LOTR is also about trust. Think about that.

>>>Late next month I’ll be speaking in New Jersey

Where and when?

Is this engagement open to the public?

I live in New York and have an EZ Pass...>>>

According to http://www.creationent.com/cal/elf.htm, I’ll be at the Crown Plaza Meadowlands Hotel in Secaucus, New Jersey. (Good speakers call their agents, I check the webpage!) The convention runs from July 28 to 30, but I don’t know what day I’ll speak or what time. If they let me know in advance, I’ll post it here. It is open to the public, but it appears there’s a fee involved.

-Doug

I'll post more news as it comes in...



TTBK

[Alatar]

Thanks TTBK

[Glawariel]

Absolutely NOTHING connected with the creative end of these releases has been motivated by money, and to suggest so… besides again being erroneous in the extreme… is positively insulting to Shore’s integrity. In fact, these sets are probably apt to make money for everyone EXCEPT Howard Shore, as he’s invested so much of his own money. And that being said, none of us will make any money based on sales. If TTT sells two copies or two million, it won’t change anything for us. We’re doing this carefully because our hearts are invested in it, and because we believe in the legacy of what Shore created. That’s it, pure and simple. We’ll drive our accountants nuts, but we’re head-in-the-clouds dreamers who still believe in the intrinsic integrity of art. Any time you see me mention a concern of sales, or number of units… that’s not because it means we’re pulling in bushels of cash each time some poor sucker forks over the dough for the set. (We’re not) It’s because we’re excited to see that people are interested in something we’re poured our effort into...I mean this is what the LOTR music is all about.Feelings,right?......LOTR is about emotion, not money. It’s about a lack of cynicism, about enthusiasm. And that’s why I’m here.
-Doug

Reading this little bit makes me feel so...hmm, can't think of the right word......uplifted? happy? satisfied? (none of these is quite right but it's something along these lines.) Even though I can't think of the word I definitely know that it made me smile. Who needs words anyway?
Thanks for posting this ttbk!

[TheTennisBallKid]

Hi everyone,

Ok, let me begin with my head-lowered thanks to all of you for the very, very kind comments above. It somehow seems unfair that I get to work on something that I’m passionate about, then get to hear thoughtful words from you excellent and admirable folk. It’s almost like being complimented for winning the lottery! I should offer immediate gratitude to Mike Skerritt, Chad, Miko, Eldarion, Marilynn, gkgyver, jwlahn, ruckus, Christian… and to Beren as well. Communication on the web is a tough deal, and I know that it’s easy to be misconstrued. Beren, you may not have said exactly what you hoped to, but I’m still glad there are people like you asking questions, be they pointed, polite, or anything in between. Questions need answers. Answers need thought. And thought improves everything. If the Two Towers set is better in any way the FOTR set—and I believe it is!—it’s because of this chain.

Really, I need to thank everyone who’s kept this thread thriving and polite at nearly 5-and-a-half-hundred posts. As you all know, this is an incredibly rare phenomenon!

Ok, then, on to the specific questions…

>>>So, Doug, about that eighth track, around five minutes in...>>>

As of right now, track eight is only 2:54 long. Well, you asked!

>>>It would be nice to know that Mr.Shore had an idea related to those maybe 4 seconds from Vivladi and developed a shire theme for Sméagol and Déagol laeding next to that hauntig piece of music from "A storm is coming" which was supposed to be the fight between the two hobbits.Anyway,i know it sounds odd but i thought at that for quite a while.I wonder if Mr.Shore developed or was partly inspired for making those magnificent themes of Middle-earth by just mere seconds of some famous composers from the past.Seconds that don't mean much(they probably are an extension to a movement,they're in the middle of an allegro et cetera),but he created unexpected beautiful sounds perfect for Tolkien's Middle-earth.>>>

Howard certainly knows the classical repertoire, but really his only intentional LOTR homage—as indirect as it may be—is in the trilogy’s Wagnerian finale. Now that doesn’t mean that there aren’t some close musical neighbors here and there (and, by all means, check out Magpie’s site if you care to discover more), but these are all accidental and, generally, pretty fleeting. Believe it or not, it really was Tolkien’s good old opus that fueled Howard’s imagination through this project. He had a dog-eared, well-worn copy of the book tucked under his arm nearly every time I saw him during the composing process. I half expected to see it sitting on the podium when I arrived at the recording sessions… though I have no doubt it was at least sitting back at the hotel.

>>>This is a question for Doug Adams regarding the track titles on the FOTR:CR. Two tracks are lifted directly from book title chapters ("Three is Company" and "Conspiracy Unmasked"), yet the events in these two chapters do not correspond to the events in the film. The "three" referred by the first title is, in the book, Frodo, Sam and Pippin. What was this meant to refer to as far as the film goes? That the fellowship is now "three" (Frodo, Sam and Gandalf)? The "conspiracy" in the book (that of Sam, Pippin and Merry against Frodo) is not present in the books. Is this conspiracy meant to represent the "secret" of the Ring? I would appreciate your clearing this up. Thank you.>>>

I believe you’ve got it on both accounts, Jonathan.

>>>Then there is also the track labeled "Farewell Dear Bilbo" which is a quote lifted from the movie, stated by Gandalf as Bilbo leaves Bag End. The music that is presented in this track, however, is underscored for another scene that was added for the extended edition, in which Bilbo talks with Frodo about the death of his parents. The last part of this track underscores the dragon shaped firework fiasco. So the track title doesn't match the music. Just a little nit pick of mine, thats all. Maybe there is an explanation for it.>>>

I think the idea had always been to use track names in a somewhat nonlinear fashion here, partially as an artistic conceit, partially as a nod to the history of the project. Most of the tracks that made it to the 2001 OST were drawn from the books, but didn’t really correspond to the titles Howard used on the cue sheets. (I know, I know, we try to avoid the word “cue” whenever we can, but since “cue sheet” is a technical term, I’ll let it slide…) Several of those compositions ended up shuffled around as the film was edited once, edited again as a big hunk of material was cut out, then edited a third time once this material was added back in to the DVD cut of the film. Shore, of course, rewrote his compositions to fit each different film edit, but the pieces’ titles stuck. When it came time to create track titles for the box set, Shore returned to his original titles (since he couldn’t reuse the OST titles) some of which had been moved around just a little bit due to the film’s continual editing. So the pieces may no longer encompass the lines for which they were originally named, but Shore was always very careful to make sure there was some relevance to the scene at hand, and that the reference to either the text of the book or the film was accurate. So there you go… the titles are nods to Tolkien; to Jackson’s, Walsh’s and Boyen’s dialogue; and to the history of Shore’s original compositions’ titles.

Incidentally, for the Two Towers track titles Shore came up with a list of several possibilities for each track, then ran it by myself, his assistant Alan, and Philippa Boyens. Howard noted his favorites in cases where he had some, but we were all allowed to pitch ideas and offer suggestions. In the end, I believe there are at least a few titles that originated with each of us.

>>>What could use some shedding light onto by Doug (was that correct English?) is some of these legal problems when it came to naming tracks on the CR. Why couldn't they use the appropriate titles from the OST, or didn't they want to?>>>

No the legal issues weren’t related so much to track titles as to track breaks, and even then, the titles were never an issue legally. Although, you’re correct, the titles couldn’t be reused from the OST. These were different pieces, so they couldn’t retain the same titles. Not a problem, though.

>>>You mean we should expect to see titles like "The Scouring of the Shire" for ROTK?>>

Only if too much beer was involved.>>>

I think I can guarantee that the title “The Scouring of the Shire” will not be used in ROTK. As for too much beer being consumed… well, there the guarantees run out.

>>>I went over TTT again last night, to get me a little worked up again, and noticed the significant tracking during the Warg attack.

Was that scene originally so much different that no edits could have made the original score fit, or was the scene shot and finished so late that Shore didn't write new music for it at all?>>>

You are indeed correct about the tracking--it exists because the FX heavy scene was still being edited and tweaked late into the game.

>>> Actually, I always thought the Isengart theme there was tracked (in addition to the Khazâd Dum piece).>>>

The Isengard theme is actually part of the original composition, so it’ll be on CD. The disc will feature the piece as Shore originally wrote and recorded it, so the tracking will not be there.

>>>Listening to the Grendel* podcast now...hey, any news on Shore's The Fly opera?>>>

He’s hard at work on it, writing in the Second Act at this point, I think. He’s beginning very early rehearsals with the leads in the near future. You’ll kill me, but I was invited to dig through the score at my leisure last time I was in the office, and literally had no time at all to do so. It kept calling to me from the corner of Shore’s desk, but there was just too much work to get through. Next time, though!

Shore was quite interested in hearing about Goldenthal’s Grendel, by the way. I love that we live in a world where John Williams attends Goldenthal’s opera and Howard Shore is interested in the piece’s construction while he prepares his own. Really makes you feel like we’re living back in the days of Herrnamnn, Newman and Steiner. Or Stravinsky, Prokofiev and Shostakovich! Maybe not so much in terms of personally or output comparisons, but it’s fantastic to feel like we’re in the midst of an interlocked artistic community.

…And just to keep things on topic, the Two Towers liners have hit 9,052 words, track titles have been finalized and the design crew has been brought on to the scene. Online content is next, unless we see an incredibly quick turn around in the design, which would call our attention away.

So that’s all the news that’s fit to print. And I’m off to bed!

-Doug Adams

*Eliot Goldenthal, a composer who does a bit of film work, wrote an opera "Grendel", from Bewoulf, that premiered a couple of months ago in LA. Doug and some cohorts from Film Score Monthly discussed it in a podcast.

As mentioned, Shore is working on his own opera (in conjunction with David Croneberg), an adapation of The Fly, which the two of them filmed together in 1986. I believe it will open in LA sometime next year.




ttbk

[TheTennisBallKid]

Ok, I’m well rested and ready to tackle your questions!

>>>First about the "Gilraen's Memorial" piece in FOTR: when the fellowship leaves, there's this yearning string theme that sounds a little like the Gandalf The White theme. Is there some connection or does this more relate to Aragorn?>>>

As Christian states, I think you’ll find the closest relative in the Fellowship theme. Although, keep in mind that both Aragorn’s Theme and Gandalf the White’s Theme come from Fellowship material, so it’s quite logical that this Fellowship develop should remind you of both.

>>>Secondly, one question about ROTK: the theme underscoring the title sequence frequently pops up in the early Frodo/Sam/Gollum scenes in various disguises. What's the story here? Apart from the Gondor theme and the motif for the Paths Of The Dead, this is the only major, new, reocurring theme in ROTK, and yet no one mentioned it yet.>>>

>>>The theme I'm talking about is easy to spot, it plays over the title sequence, like I said. The very first 30 seconds of the score.>>>

The first 30 seconds of ROTK are really just referencing a new type of hobbit music for Sméagol and Déagol. But really, as in Two Towers, these opening bars are more setting style and mood.

As for unique ROTK themes, there are actually quite a few. Certainly the Grey Havens theme merits a mention? Gondor’s Fourth Age theme? The Journey Back Again? Hey wait, I shouldn’t be mentioning these things yet…

>>>If it's the arpeggios, they have to play a larger role in all three scores...they play in Rivendell, under Isildur's death during FotR's prologue, during "The White Tree" etc.>>>

Yes, these wonderful little arpeggios are all over the LOTR scores, and we’ll finally take a look at their significance in The Return of the King.

>>>Here's another one:
Doug mentioned that in TTT, quite a few pieces were tinkered with.
Can we expect you to clear these re- edits up in the liner notes?>>>

All the major “tinkers” will be detailed, though that will end up in the Annotated Scores section online.

>>>The film version of "Forth Eorlingas" has a choral lyric to accompany the statement of the secondary White Rider theme as Gandalf appears on the crest of the hill (1:41 on the CD track); the choir isn't present on the OST. Do you know why?>>>

There was quite a bit of music moved around in this sequence, and this too will be covered in the Annotated Score. TTT probably ended up with more music moved than any other film in the trilogy, so there’s quite a good chunk to discuss under the Unused Concepts heading. However, if you’re looking for controversy and calamity behind the reasoning, you may end up disappointed. Essentially, all these changes were due to last minute edits or reconsiderations within the powers that be. No one ever threw the scores on the floor in a fit of rage or anything like that. So the Unused Concepts will mostly detail WHAT was changed since the WHYs become redundant and dull.

>>>And am I correct to assume that the choir will be in the CR mix?>>>

There are a few surprises for you in this composition, that’s all I’ll say right now.

>>>I'd like to have that one, but it sounded (and I think I read it somewhere) as if this choral outburst was tracked-in. Or on top of the existing cue.>>>

Hmmmm….

>>>Regarding Georg's question: did Doug refer to any tinkering in the FotR notes? (I don't think he did, but I cannot check). I guess he will keep the "Unused Concepts", though.>>>

>>>Well, yes, Doug didn't comment on the unused/ edited bits in FOTR because *there were none*>>>

Actually, there were about three, and all were mentioned in the Annotated Score. There was some extra music at Weathertop, there was an incomplete and unused cue at the Flooding of the Ford and there were a few extras bars at Amon Hen.

>>>I'm salavating at the thought of what this "special preview" entails. This can only mean that we should expect to here or possibly see what this "special preview" is very soon after it is presented at ORC.>>>

Ha! Well, in all honesty I’m still trying to decide what to discuss… and waiting to find out what I’m allowed to discuss! Seriously, other than simply standing on stage and playing the whole thing, anyone have any requests?

>>>P.S. to Doug: I love your podcasts over at FSM. They're always equally hilarious as they are educational. I especially loved the explanation on the harmonic techniques used by Williams on his Superman score. And Shore's version of the M:I theme, GENIOUS!>>>

Great, thank you so much! I have to give credit to the Kaplans for the Mission: Isengard theme.

>>>Am I the only one who's more excited about this "preview" than I was when the movie previews were announced?>>>

Ha!

>>>What do you mean by "preview"? Will there be something special or is it the usual "I'll tell you, but have to remain vague"?

A release date would be quite nice.>>>

It would indeed. I will find out if I’m allowed to mention it.

>>>[Bhttp://media20a.libsyn.com/podcasts/fsmpodcast/FSM_Podcast_013.mp3
[Powell’s X-Men]

Now that's just mean. An extended version (film version? When I watched the film, I didn't yet have the CD, so I don't recall all the details) of the Dark Phoenix cue?>>>

Ok, I’ll freely admit I’m a little confused by this one! Did we play something here that wasn’t on the CD? We received a promo version, but I’m 99% certain it’s identical to the commercial release. If you’re referring to the “Dark Phoenix destroys the house” music… that morphs into Elfman’s Spider-man 2 halfway through, just to show the similarity in style.

>>>What diegetic music can we expect for TTT? Éowyn's lament for Theodred seems obvious, but is there anything else? Treebeard's poetry? Gollum's fish-song? Théoden reciting "Where is the Horse and the Rider"? ;-)>>>

As of the current edit, there will be one cast performer only on the Two Towers boxed set, and yes, you mention that performer above.

>>>Doug, you've mentioned that track 8 was about 5 minutes long, and a little later it was down to 2 and a half.>>>

Oh dear, no, no, no! That Track 8 at 5 Minutes thing was a joke. Track 8 has always been the same 2 and half minute length.

>>>Now, this implies that you do experiment with the intercutting of scenes. But from the very beginning you made clear that the music will be presented in chronological order.
Will or will it not be chronological?>>>

It will be chronological. Always has been, always will be. You will hear the music as Shore wrote it. Shore wrote his transitions to the film, to the intercutting. To undo this would be to jeopardize the structure of what Shore wrote… which is sort of the antithesis of this entire project’s goal. No such “creative editing” will occur, I promise!

-Doug

PS – I really m quite serious in asking what people would like to be presented with next weekend. Suggestions are most welcome. Anyone here planning to attend?

PPS – The official press release for TTT is being written next week. Don’t know exactly when it will be out, but it’s being assembled soon.

ttbk

[TheTennisBallKid]

Ok gang,

I’m just back in town now. I’ll dig into questions tonight in earnest, but for now a quick—and yes, important!—update. A couple of key people had to be away this week on personal business, so while there won’t yet be an official statement in the press, Howard just called to ask me to let you know that…

The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers – The Complete Recordings will be available in late October, 2006.

So spread the word. You’ve got less than three months to wait now!

Back later,

-Doug

ttbk

[TheTennisBallKid]

Some more answers from Mr. Adams, quite a few of them about the LOTR Symphony.

Hi everyone,

Let’s take a long overdue look at some of these questions, shall we?

>>>The first 30 seconds of ROTK are really just referencing a new type of hobbit music for Sméagol and Déagol. But really, as in Two Towers, these opening bars are more setting style and mood.

Ah! Good to know. But why does this theme return a couple of times then?>>>

Gkgyver, could you possibly provide a specific instance so I can answer more directly?

>>>And what do we learn from this? Doug better be careful about his comments or he'll ultimately cause a war.>>>

Yeah, I’m slowly starting to get this!

>>>By the way, I've always wanted to ask you if you know anything about Shore's differences with PJ on Kong?>>>

I’m going to gave to go with the standard, “No comment,” on this one. See, I’m learning to be careful with my comments already!

>>>Éowyn: actually singing something; it's in the same kind of, say, The Lay of Beren and Lúthien.

Théodred: "just" reciting a poem. No music involved.

Gollum: "So juicy-SWEEEEET". Dear God, no, please.

Treebeard: Entish rumbling and mumbling. No melody to be seen here, either.>>>

The cast performer will be announced in the press release… unless they’ve changed it since I last saw it. More on that later.

>>>I wonder if they for the FOTR:CR they called back the actors for ADR or just sing the songs again.It seems that they're not getting away so easily from the LOTR.Still sounds great.And i wonder if any of the cast members(except the ones featured in the music) have bought the CR?>>>

All of the cast performances in the FOTR:CR set came from the original film soundtrack. But that said, the Gandalf, Bilbo and Aragorn bits were actually recorded in a studio and not on set, so it was an easy, clean mix. That’s also why you hear a bit more on disc than you hear in the film itself. The Green Dragon song was actually performed and recorded on set, but that worked out great because the singing wasn’t backed by score anyway, and because the crowd noise adds just the right flavor to the tune.

>>>On a side issue, I, for one, would love to know if and when a DVD of the full LotR Symphony might be forthcoming..... Does Doug know, or more importantly, can he divulge any such highly classified info???>>>

I honestly don’t think that anything of this sort is planned right now, but only because so much effort has been extended towards the boxed sets. Perhaps in the future.

>>>You missed my question (reposted below)! If you get a chance I'd just like my mind set at ease.

I have the same question as I did for the FOTR release (if you are able to answer it). Will most of the tracks end with the track making life easier for us iPoders (meaning the music will not continue over 2 tracks creating a pause on iPods)? I'm pretty sure I know the answer already since FOTR did a great job with this but, was just hoping confirmation. I think FOTR only had 2 instances were the music ran together through a track break but, it was in soft parts of the music making it less noticeable. Just hoping for the same with TTT.>>>

Oops, sorry I missed this before. Yes, you can expect the same iPod-friendly structure in TTT, fear not.

>>>Hey Doug, I don't know if you're allowed to answer this, but will TTT:CR have that annoying rubber nub that holds the DVD? >>>

Ha! The cursed nub! To tell the truth, I don’t know. The mock ups of the packaging I’ve seen are all just PDFS of the printed materials… box cover and interiors, CD booklet and trays, liner notes booklet. I probably won’t see the thing in three dimensions until you guys do. That said, the design is all in the same style, so I would *guess* the nub will make its dubious return!

I’m going to have to go out on a limb, by the way, and show some nub love. I think that if you’re just not too aggressive with the little thing, it’ll work perfectly. The disc doesn’t pop on and off quickly, you have to wait a few seconds for the nub to sort of “ooze” its way through, which ultimately holds the disc more securely and safely. (By the way, in proofreading this paragraph, I’ve determined that it’s the most unintentionally inappropriate thing I’ve ever written!)

Incidentally, the packaging, even in this early form, is all remarkably beautiful. I honestly believe it’s even a step forwards from FOTR, and I didn’t think that was possible.

>>>Hey Doug, one question. When making the CR sets, do you have to re-record all the music that Shore wrote, or is it saved somewhere and you just have to edit it onto the CDs?>>>

These are all the original performances by London Philharmonic Orchestra that were featured in the films themselves. It was an incredible treat to have access to an orchestra of this caliber for such a long period of time (in the neighborhood of a month’s worth of session time for each film), and part the impetus for the CR project was to be able to capture this rare situation for posterity’s sake.

>>>Alright, alright, two questions! You mentioned earlier that the liner notes were nearly finished, and you posted the word count. Is it finished now? Just curious.>>>

We’re at 8,875 words at the moment. The first draft of the layout came out last weekend; we’ve sent our edits back to Warner and are awaiting their next version. We’re approaching “done,” but aren’t quite there yet.

>>>Hey! Does anyone have an inkling as to what colour the actual CDs and DVD will be? I read somewhere that the box will probably match the limited edition soundtrack releases, so I'm assuming it'll be a green box. But I hope the CDs/DVD have a colour as elegant as the cream Fellowship ones. This may sound silly, but I somehow can't comprehend green discs.>>>

I think the disc design (as in what printed on the plastic discs themselves) was the last design to come in on FOTR:CR, so I’m not surprised that I haven’t seen anything for TTT:CR yet. I’m thinking the FOTR:CR color will be maintained, but that’s just my guess.

>>>Personally, I would gladly exchange an inside-look about he CR for another featurette about the actual scoring process of the movie. I can never get enough of that!
And I doubt that after Doug's elaborate answering sessions here, there will still be questions unanswered>>>

Wow, thanks for the recommendation guys… it’s given me a few thoughts….

>>>Doug, is there any news regarding the "rarities" disc that might or might not be included with your book?>>>

There have been some discussions, to be sure, and while I think progress has been made, we’re all pretty focused on these CD releases at the time being. I think book details will begin to firm up in a few months yet.

>>>Why don't Shore and Adams like the term "cue"? Sorry, I must have missed that part of the thread.>>>

Heh, well it’s not like there a violent reaction or anything, but… The term “cue” in film music suggests, rightly or wrongly, a single self-sustaining composition. Howard approached The Lord of the Rings as a single 12 hour composition, and as such, he doesn’t like to look at it as a collection of pieces. Really, I don’t think he’s even very fond of looking at FOTR, TTT and ROTK as being separate scores. To him, it’s one score for The Lord of the Rings. I think for practicality’s sake, he’ll refer to them as three entities, but he’d probably rather not. Maybe this all sounds goofy and conceptual, but I think it’s indicative of the principles he brought to the project.

>>>Sorry to hear about your airline troubles, just be thankful that you were safe and sound on solid ground! Maybe instead you can just give your presentation here on the boards? Thanks for keeping us in the loop!>>>

I think that’s exactly why Howard felt that it was ok to announce the release date window. Yes, by the way, the date has already been decided. We’re not hedging out bets, we’re just waiting for the official press release to tackle that one. Speaking of, yes, the release is still forthcoming. I don’t know exactly when, because when people need to tend to personal affairs, that needs to take precedence. But it’ll be soon.

>>>I'm so sorry that you weren't able to make it out East yesterday due to storms. It is totally understandable; the weather has been a roller coaster here in NJ the past several weeks. Main thing is that you are ok and that's what is important. Thank you for the post letting us know. Take care and looking forward to your next posting.>>>

I felt so bad about all this. The airline wouldn’t even put me on standby because of the crazy storms… they did, however, offer to book me another flight, which somehow they neglected to notice would have been scheduled *after* my returning flight. Not sure which time/space paradox allows for that to occur! We almost had a last-minute save where I was going to give my presentation over webcam, but a sudden blackout here prevented even that. I guess at some point you just have to toss up your hands and decide it wasn’t meant to be.

It’s been a rough summer for travel!

>>>Hey Doug, how is the Annotated Score coming, and can you give us an estimate of when it will be online?>>>

The Annotated Score is slowly creaking to life. Every time I direct my attention towards it, there’s something in the liners to return to. At this point, I’ve transcribed all of Shore’s comments, and have begun putting pieces into place. Like FOTR Annotated, it should be online right around the time of the box’s release, and you should be able to find it easily on the official site.

>>>Also, where on the web might I find the press release (once it is online)?>>>

Hmmm, that’s a good question. I think ComingSoon.com got the scoop last time, didn’t they? Someone always seems to get the release a little earlier than everyone else, then spread the word around. I’m guessing the release will be hard to miss once it gets out!

>>>After all the anticipation, I hope I'll be able to afford it...the press release won't say anything about the cost, will it?>>>

Cost should be the same as FOTR:CR. One of the really cool (and challenging!) things about this project is that TTT:CR contains more music and more words, and yet everything has been fit into the same physical packaging. That’s taken a good deal of effort, I assure you.

>>>do you have any news on how your book is comig along and what exactly will be in it, thanks>>>

The book is coming along great, but as I say, I’ve had my attention more on the CR notes lately. The book content is to the liners as the Extended Edition DVDs were to the theatrical releases. The liners are a scaled back and re-edited version of the book content. In the book you’ll be able to see the full form of everything. So the sections from the notes: Themes, Performers, Instruments are all there… as well as the Texts sections from the Annotated Scores… in expanded form, but you’ll also have a few sections that haven’t been seen yet.

>>>By the way: your music mixers/ editors might want to consider raising the volume of the music a little.
Every time I want to listen to any LOTR Soundtrack, I have to turn up the volume.>>>

“My” music editors!? Sir, you overestimate my sway!

>>>a) is there any plan for a DVD of the Ring Symphony... and is there any idea of when it might appear (just generally: a year, two, after the Complete Recordings...)?>>>

I’m really not too sure. Personally, I find the Symphony to so closely resemble the structure of the OST CDs, that listening to them in sequence *nearly* recreates the experience. Now, that’s not strictly true, so I can see why people would be excited about a Symphony release, but since the boxed sets have taken the spotlight for the time being (as well as Shore’s work on The Departed and The Fly), there hasn’t been too much discussion about the LOTR Symphony right now. Please, don’t take that as a sign that it won’t ever happen…

>>>b) I would be grateful for some insight into why Maestro Shore chose to make the Symphony (which seemed to me to be more in the genre of six symphonic poems...) follow, again, the narrative of the film, and not, say, several movements each around a group of related themes: say, the Hobbits, the Elves, Rohan, Morder, etc... and then develop their themes musically.>>>>

I’ll dig into the opera / symphony debate below.

>>>By the way, another question I had for Professor Doug, if he is willing to entertain it: is it possible the full orchestral score of either the Symphony or the Complete Scores ever likely be published in some reasonably affordable form?>>>

This is not entirely out of the question.

>>>Can you tell us how long the TT: CR will be? I know FOTR's press release told us.>>>

It’ll be between three and three-and-a-half hours. The press release will mention a playing time, but it’s somewhat deceptive since there’s only one cast performance this time, and since that performance will perform over the orchestra (ooh, a hint!), and thus won’t add any playing time to the discs.

As for the questions regarding form and the LOTR Symphony…

I think the secret to understanding this work is to divorce yourself from the classical concept of the symphony. “Symphony” in the Twenty-first Century is a far more flexible term than in the past. Do I like the progression of the term? I don’t know. I guess I’m probably in favor of rattling the walls of any term that would seek to box up creativity, so maybe it’s a good thing. And besides, “tone poem” doesn’t really have the cachet or marketability, even if it is a more accurate term.

The form of the LOTR Symphony is dictated by drama and balance, but then so are modern multi-movement works such as Corigliano’s Symphony No. 1, or John Adams’ Naïve and Sentimental music, which is widely considered a symphony. And even with that in mind, if you think in terms of introduction – development – conclusion, or even thematic recapitulations, Shore’s work isn’t *that* far from the classical model of the symphony. Key centers don’t jive with the classical model, but even there there’s a solid structure as certain keys are associated with certain themes.

That said, all the material in the LOTR Symphony is right out of the scores, so, by proxy, the film’s editing really controls a good deal of the content. The transition from recording studio to concert stage involved shuffling of elements, but those elements were all dictated by the film and the story.

But hey, that’s the Twenty-first Century for you… nothing is purely this or that anymore. It’s a polyglot society.

The LOTR Symphony was created so that families could experience the music and the tale of LOTR live. So form and drama are kith and kin here. Would a further exploration of this material apart from the story and the film scores be fascinating? Sure! But I don’t think that was the goal of this particular project.

Maybe someday, who knows. Shore has a good number of concert commissions lined up now, so perhaps some deep-pocketed individual will eventually move him towards just such a thing.

-Doug

ttbk

[TheTennisBallKid]

Hi everyone,

Responses have been slow lately because I’m knee-deep in Annotated Score materials right now. And I mean that pretty darn literally… Nearly every square inch of desk space, floor space and bulletin board real estate in my office is currently covered with CDs, DVDs, post-its, emails, music dictionaries, orchestration texts, Tolkien’s novel, spreadsheets, texts, staff paper, iPods, headphones, minidisks… and there’s probably a Taco Bell wrapper and a beer bottle or two under the bottom layers. I try to call it the “detritus of endeavor,” but it probably looks more like someone dropped a Staples on my house from a great distance.

With that said, I’m going to try to answer a handful of questions here tonight… but I’ll be doing somewhat a hyper-efficient answer-a-thon. Short and sweet is the name of the game tonight, so please no one be offended with curt answers, ok? And if I miss yours, please let me know and I’ll get you on the next round.

>>>Any reaction to having a cd (incl. with the book) of illustrating the commentary, or would that so delay and complicate matters as to be beyond reason? Again, I am thinking of Deryck Cooke's famous commentary on Wagner's Ring, which is of course an audio commentary with illustrations on the leitmotivs in Der Ring. So it might be just the themes, helpful for those not up to reading musical notation, or even some live on tape Doug Adams insights.....>>>

We’ve talked a bit about including bonus material with the book, and it’s certainly not out of the question. Book talks will heat up soon, I think. I know I have a number of calls to return on it, and these will all be addressed as soon as TTT is put to bed… although the window between TTT and ROTK looks to be pretty small!

>>>Now, that ROTK theme I mentioned can distinctly be heard a couple of times:
first over the title sequence, then over Frodo's line "The days are growing darker" (or around that time), then when Frodo and Sam pass the statue of the fallen king ("these lands were once part of the kingdom of Gondor") and finally after the argument at the pool, when Frodo grabs Gollum's hand (this could be just my perception though).>>>

Interesting insights. Let me see if I can shed some light.

Film’s opening:

Bb Dd F Dd Eb Bb Bb C

“The days are growing darker…”

C Eb G Ab Bb C D

“These lands were once a part of the Kingdom of Gondor…”

F Ab C Bb

They’re not all exactly the same motive as you can see, but they are all are based on arpeggiated minor triads. In a sense, they could potentially be related to the Pity of Gollum theme… especially in the second’s case… But they could also just be minor triads, which certainly are all over the score without any leitmotivic repercussions.

So which will be the final verdict? Time will tell!

>>>Oh, about the rubber knub! Are you aware that you indirectly told us there will be a DVD in the set, just like in FOTR's?>>>

Yep, I’m quite aware!

>>>Well, I have a strong desire for one in particular but, thinking it was a capella, I was a bit crestfallen. I just went and listened to a clip and realized that 'music' does sort of creep in at the end.>>>

>>>I do think it is interesting that there is such a change from the FOTR set, which contained every song heard in the film, even those that the music didn't conform to (Bilbo singing "The Road Goes Ever On" as he leaves Bag End). Was this a specific decision?>>>

I’ll say one more thing about the cast performance, then I’ll probably let it drop until the press release gives it away. There was no conscious effort on this release to move away from cast performances, it just worked out that way. The cast performances that weren’t used just didn’t work in context with the score. They were too short, came out of nowhere, went nowhere, and plopped in the middle of an hour of orchestral / choral music, felt uncomfortably out of place. Yes, they were tried, yes I heard them, and no, they didn’t really work. The one that remains fits in quite beautifully with its surroundings, is quite musical in its own right, and feels part of an organic whole.

It’s really quite lovely, and I think it’ll hit the spot for all of you. It did for me, anyway.

>>>Mr.Adams, that must've taken some time...thanks for answering so many questions. It's great to know that TTT:CR's price will be somewhere around what FOTR:CR's is. And thanks for replying about the colour concern too. I can't wait to see how TTT:CR tops FOTR:CRs design. As a designer (software...mind you), I didn't think that was possible - which is not necessarily a bad thing, because I'm *only* 22 and have a lot to learn anyway.>>>

Seeing as I’m fewer than 10 years older than you, I’ll have to politely request you remove the “Mr.” from my name! I once joked with Shore that I was upset that Emiliana Torrini was younger than me, and he started laughing. “Get used to it! Just wait until the cops start calling you ‘sir!’”

>>>If only for the excellent performance of Sissel during the solo's (wich I think are much better than on the soundtracks).>>>

Just as an FYI, I don’t think Sissel has performed the symphony for a while now. Kaitlyn Lusk has been doing the honors for some time. And her proud father is always front and center at the performances cheering her on. Very nice fellow.

>>>1) Does this edition fit on 3 CD, or we'll have another extra CD?>>>

I can’t say yet, but the citizens of this board have done a good job figuring the math on this.

>>>2) Are the mock ups of the packaging you have seen similar to these photoshoped images from this spanish blog?>>>

Ah that cursed Spanish blog! Actually, they did a very nice job with it. I’m sure you’ll see some mock-ups before the set is released. Design isn’t done yet, however. Everything is still being tweaked right now. In fact, they’ve just requested a slightly new shade of… uh, the color the cover is… to compare with the current edition. Whew, that was a close one.

>>>QUESTIONS FOR DOUG ADAMS: Will the End Credits music on the CR be like the OST or the film? On track 12 of TTT: OST, there's a choral part that comes in (during the warg attack) and it isn't there in the film. Instead, there is the hardinger fiddle. Will the CR have (all of) the choral part at a "reasonable" volume? (I absolutely love that choral part!!! It has such a beautiful, ethereal quality to it.) Thank you, Doug.>>>

Like the FOTR set, the TTT end credits will not include the DVD fan scroll music since that music is already on the set in its proper place. No point in making people pay twice for the same music, right? As for the Warg piece, you will hear it as Shore originally composed it. There’s quite a bit of tracking in that section of the film… even including some music from the first film.

>>>The pics on that link up there look great...I'm inclined to believe those aren't fake for atleast one reason. When I asked Doug whether the discs would be blue, his answer was an indirect "No". And I'm not complaining. The pics do show that though everything (physical packaging included) is the same, the discs retain their cream colour.

Of course, with Photoshop, I could've made those pics from off FOTR:CR (why does the THE TWO TOWERS text look a strange shade of yellow to me?? Maybe its just the cones in my eyes)

But Gandalf looks GREAT!!!>>>

Just repeating here to soothe my weary mind… these pics are fake. Any pics you will see of the set right now are fake. Even if you break into Warner Brothers and steal the current designs, you won’t see what will be available in October, because the design is not yet done.

By the way, please don’t break into Warner Brothers. People tend to frown upon things like that.

Oh, and yes, I know no one claimed these pics were real in the first place. I think things quickly got misconstrued on our multilingual board here, however.

>>>Question for Doug Adams:
Is that Ugluk or Lurtz? :-)>>>

It’s Uglúk, of course. And don’t forget the accent on the “u,” you’ll need it to properly type the track titles in a few months.

>>>Hi I live in Australia and I've got a question for Doug or anyone else who might know. Will the TTT CR be released in Australia? The FOTR CR wasn't released here and I had to get it sent in from the US which took 2 months. I'm wondering if it'll be the same with TTT CR. Thanks>>>

Honestly, I don’t know, simply because that’s not anywhere near my end of things. I do know, however, that there’s going to be an effort to have a greater number of units physically available in stores this time out, so people don’t have order off the Internet almost exclusively. I don’t know if this extends to international outlets, but let’s keep our fingers crossed.

>>>I've always wondered why none of the TTT sets figured Saruman outside/inside them. I mean, he's the driving force behind the invasion of Westfold and this was his war and his defeat. And he was the Head of the White Council, even if he did stray from his path So was just wondering...>>>

It’s all a matter of what high res pictures New Line has on hand, and what looks the most dynamic. In the case of covers, obviously the image has to be something iconic and representative of film’s story as a whole.

>>>Maybe he's allowed to spread news only after the press release.However on the last post he said that more news will come as soon as there's more time.Or another way of saying ...as soon as the "big bosses" allow to.>>>

>>>I wanted to know whether Mr.Shore recorded complete songs or just parts of them, particularly the Rivendell version of A Elbereth Gilthoniel - of which we hear only the first and last two lines when the Fellowship is in RIvendell, namárië and The Song of Lúthien (Elven version - just two lines again??).>>>

What you hear is what there is, for the most part. The songs were all written as part of the score, not as freestanding pieces which were arranged into the full piece. So nothing is being left out. However, the texts *were*in fact written this way, so the Annotated Score material will always list the entire choral text, even if not everything was set to music in the long run.

>>>Or maybe the "big bosses" found out that he leaked the release date. Will we ever see him again?>>>

Howard Shore called and asked me to please announce that people could expect a late October release. I’m relatively sure I was in the clear on that one. 

>>>I came back from my 7-day vacation expecting to find a press release and everyone counting down the seconds until TTT. Oh, well. I guess I didn't miss anything when I was gone.>>>

>>>Well at least we know month of release...October 2006.>>>

Sorry guys, the press release will come out when it comes out, I guess. I’m not a part of that loop, and as I’ve said before, I know some people had to take care of personal issues, so that clearly takes precedence. But hey, look at it this way… I said late October. CDs always come out on Tuesdays. There are five Tuesday’s in October. So if you take your early October, mid October and late October Tuesdays, you’re not going to have to work too hard to guess pretty close to the right date.

>>>Now, now, all you hasty hobbits... hoom hommmm!
Let's take this as a sign that Doug is soooo busy putting finishing touches on his liner notes and score annotations for that IMPENDING deadline (ahem!) that he just can't spare a moment to quiet all this orcish racket! ;-)
Or that like Bilbo he needs a little peace and quiet without all us S[o]B's hanging on the bell all day, so he can finish up and live happily ever after, to the end of his days.......>>>

I’m still more in the Hunched Over the Table, Quill in Hand mode, I think. Happily ever after is still a bit off!

See you next time!

-Doug

So, the 24th or Halloween, I guess...


ttbk

[TheTennisBallKid]

Hi everyone,

I do believe I owe you a round of answers and updates. Can’t say I’ve got an overwhelming amount of news to report, but here goes:

>>>I'm quite confident (knowing absolutely nothing, obviously) that we'll have ROTK by the end of 2007.>>>

This is indeed true. ROTK’s release window is already tentatively set.

>>>By the way, I don't think I like the prospect of having a track that includes "Uglùk".
But I got used to "The Fighting Uruk- Hai" too, so maybe it won't be that bad.>>>

There are more TTT tracks than FOTR tracks, so the names can be slightly more specific. Oh, and Uglúk’s accent needs to point the other way!

>>>Hey *Doug* (I think I'm missing something...oh, its the Mr. ) thanks for the answers. Still a bit curious though. You said that "the image has to be something iconic and representative of film’s story as a whole". True. But wouldn't that image of Saruman defeated by Gandalf be great? The one from ROTK:EE, when his staff is broken and he has those tears in his dark eyes? Sorry for playing the pest.>>>

Oh, I didn’t mean to suggest that Saruman wasn’t used because he wasn’t iconic, I was just explaining the thought behind the cover shots that *were* used. You’ll just have to wait to see who or what makes the covers this time out.

>>>there is also the big chance that this release will be like last time with FOTR being pushed back from november to december, therefore TTT might get put back into november.>>>

The elements that precipitated the FOTR delay are not in any way attached to TTT.

>>>ALSO FOR DOUG - NOT THAT THIS MIGHT BE A BIG ISSUE BUT WHATS UP WITH HOWARD SHORES SITE, THATS BEEN IN THE LAUNCHING PEROID FOR CLOSE TO A YEAR NOW>>>

I’m afraid I don’t have any info on this. Dan Goldwasser and Warm Butter are behind the Howard Shore site… with Shore’s own crew supervising in the wings. I’m sure the site will launch when they feel the time is right, but even that is a presumption on my part. I’m not in that world.

>>>although the window between TTT and ROTK looks to be pretty small!<<<

>>>You sure got us talking on this little blurb, Doug!>>>

As the best I can do is offer a blurb now and then, I try to choose them carefully!

>>>I can't wait to hear the Warg scene as Shore scored it, it will be interesting to play it as the movie rolls on this scene...>>>

Homemade isolated TTT scores will offer a very enlightening look into this film’s process, I think. You’ll be amazed at how many little bits here and there were altered in some way. I’m working my way through the Annotated Score material now, and I think that for Disc One alone I’ve created nearly 10 “Unused Concept” boxes.

>>>Hmmmm, what will the track title be, "Ugluk Adds to the Menu">>>

>>>*One of the track titles has the word "Ugluk" in it.>>>

Darn it, what have you guys got against that accent over the “u”!?

>>>For Mr. Adams, our great hero... ....About the End Credit question I had...I wasn't talking about the Fan Club Credits, but the End Credits. I know that the FC Credits music will not be on the CR, of course, but I was asking about the section of tracked music during the End Credits. It's something like this:

OST(trk 19)
Gollum's Song
Éowyn's Theme
Rohan Theme & End

FILM
Gollum's Song
(tracked from TT)
Éowyn's Theme
Seduction of the Ring Theme
Forth Eorlingas-Beginning
Diminishment of the Elves Theme(FOTR trkd)
Rivendell Theme
Evenstar
('regular')
Rohan Theme & End>>>

Well, let’s just say that the OST version was cut down and the Film version had some tracked in bits. You’ll hear what Shore originally wrote, which exists somewhere in between.

>>>Also, about the Wolves of Isengard "cue" , in the film it has the Isengard theme before going silent with the smack of the 2 forces. Is that Isengard rendition from FOTR or original??? (I'm thinking of the 2nd use of the theme in FOTR, during the Pass of Caradhras...hmmmm...)>>>

There are a large number of changes in this composition, so I’ll just say, without being too specific, you *will* hear the Isengard theme. I’ll be freer with details another time.

>>>I don't know if this has been discussed in this thread yet (and apologies if it has been), but I don't know why Reprise went with a different color scheme than what New Line established for the entire rest of the Trilogy merchandising: green for FOTR, rust for TTT, and blue for ROTK. This is especially odd considering that both Reprise and New Line are TimeWarner subsidiaries.>>>

You know, this was honestly all decided before I was in the fold, so I don’t know where the color decisions came from. In fact, the only color story I ever heard while the project was ongoing was that they considered making ROTK gold. Now, I don’t know if that was the DVD or the CD… but, I did overhear the discussion.

>>>Except that line by Doug about the window between TTT:CR and ROTK:CR being small. Sounds interesting. I think that would be because there's just so much music in ROTK as compared to FOTR and TTT. Also, couple that with the work that needs to be done on the Book, if they're planning on a simultaneous release (alongwith a "rarities disc" huh??) and a year seems a pretty short time to get so much done.>>>

You’re pretty close with all this. Overlapping projects and release dates will keep everyone quite busy for the coming months.

>>>I don't get it.How could the reason for the small window between TTT and ROTK be the fact that there's more work on ROTK:CR?Shouldn't be the contrary?Anyway,if Mr. Adams said that the window will be small,then there's a good reason to be happy.And i am.>>>

“Small window” here refers to a very brief pause in the process… meaning that ROTK is going to be so enormous that everyone’s going to move almost immediately from TTT to early ROTK work. No one’s going to be resting between projects for long!

>>>I own all the soundtracks of the Lord of the Rings films and I love them. It's mind blowing to think how Howard Shore could compose such beautiful music.
Last year I had purchased the complete score of the FOTR. I was somewhat dissappointed with the packaging. Why is it so flimsy? Mine tore at the sides. Why did they have to use cheap cardboard?>>>

Sorry you’ve had trouble, Pierre. I don’t think the boxed set is designed to be a portable product, more of a shelf item. I’m guessing I’ve open and closed my copy about as many times as anyone, checking and rechecking things here and there, and it still looks brand new. But I’m sure if I started taking it on the road with me… well I know how *I* feel if I’m on the road too long!

>>>My one wish is to perhaps see released on DVD film footage of Howard Shore conducting the LPO during the recording sessions. Interviews, etc. Something like behind the scenes footage and something similar to what we saw on the DVD that came with the ROTK soundtrack. Any hopes/chances of seeing such a DVD released in the future?>>>

Maybe. The publishers are definitely interested in including some sort of multimedia content with the book.

>>>P.S.: Did anyone notice this http://derhobbit-film.de/indexengl.shtml ?I wonder if(if it's true) Mr. Howard Shore will come back to Middle-earth to compose the music for The Hobbit?>>>

The Hobbit, should it actually materialize, is probably a good number of years away. That said, I know that Shore has expressed an interest…

>>>I doubt Howard Shore ever wrote exclusive credits material, let alone record it.

Howard wrote the gorgeous Bilbo's Song for the ROTK fan credits, that's appropriate because it marks a sad goodbye to the fans. And I'm quite happy with that.>>>

Yes, he wrote that beautiful, beautiful theme… it’s the absolutely final variation on the Shire material and it could turn a stone-hearted cynic into a poet. I remember getting a call from London during the ROTK DVD recording sessions. They had a few questions for me regarding fan scroll music, and mentioned at the time, “Oh, Howard wrote one more song for the boys.” I was shocked, because he wasn’t in the practice of writing new pieces for the credits. “He just felt like he should.” How great is that?

Other than the songs, Shore didn’t write any new “material” for the credits in terms of new themes, but many the arrangements are unique to the credits. I particularly love the setting of the Rohan Fanfare that ends TTT’s credits.

>>>I think a more pertinent question would be: what is the release date for The Hobbit: The Complete Recordings?>>>

I’m sending my Starbucks tab to your house…

>>>I'm really eager to have a look at the design. If they really outdid Fellowship, that thing must definitely be something.>>>

You’ll definitely recognize it as FOTR’s progeny. But, I think it’s even more sophisticated in the details.

>>>DOUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHERE ARE YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Surely you're not busy on a Saturday?!>>>

I was! And I will be again this weekend.

>>>MORE NEWS IS NEEDED, ITS ALMOST GOING TO BE 2 MONTHS UNTIL THE TTT IS DUE AND STILL THERE IS NOTHING ABSOLUTELY OFFICIAL EXCEPT A SUPPOSED RELEASE TIME>>>

Well, if makes you feel any better, I’m listening to the complete edit of TTT as I’m typing this.

Ok, that probably didn’t make you feel much better. Sorry!

Everything is moving ahead. I’ve been very hard at work on the Annotated Score. As I mentioned above, there’s an enormous amount to discuss in this one.

The latest draft of the liners just came in from Warners this afternoon, so after a quick trip to the gym, I’ll spend the rest of my night proofing it. From a very cursory scan, it looks like most of the layout issues have been resolved, so things are very, very close.

>>>I say we buy the man a beer! Three cheers for Doug!!!

Actually, we should buy him a six pack of his favorite kind!>>>

Well, since this is Tolkien, shouldn’t that be nine beers? In fact, we’ll talk about that a bit in the liners… nine, that is, not beer. Beer won’t even be mentioned until the final example of Dwarf music is heard in ROTK.

On second thought, let’s keep away from the beer for right now. I seem to have enough trouble keeping on the subject as is!

>>>'nother question for ya, Doug: I know Howard "pays homage" to Wagner at the very end of ROTK, but does he "pay homage" to Rosenman(animated LOTR score, I'm sure you know that )??? Thanks a bunch!>>>

Wagner’s is really the only homage Shore’s placed in the score. But what a moment, eh?

>>>I rewatched the scoring featurette on the TTT extended DVD.
Now this one's for Doug: PJ says that there are actually just 10 or 11 minutes of old themes in TTT, but surely he must be mistaken? Or does he just count the clear, obvious statements?>>>

To be perfectly honest, I think this was a bit of spin. There was a big fuss regarding the Oscars and Shore’s Two Towers score. Basically, there was a ruling that came out of the music division that year that disqualified sequel scores because it said they often relied on past music, and because people were already familiar with the music, it would give these scores an unfair advantage with the voters. So off the bat, Two Towers was disqualified. Of course, as we know, that’s nonsense. Shore’s score includes references to past themes, but it doesn’t repeat *any* large scale passages verbatim. The score is an entirely new composition, and in fact one of its great strengths is its continued development of established thematic material mixed with entirely new thematic material, all set in entirely new compositions.

Anyway, Shore stated his case and was asked to write a paper to the Academy explaining and clarifying his position. Much of the LOTR crew got behind this and really pushed to make sure people understood that TTT was an entirely new score. (Unfortunately, the buzz about TTT being disqualified was a bit much to overcome, and Shore’s score never was nominated anyway.) Jackson was still very much in this mindset when TTT’s DVD material was being prepared, and since he is not a trained musician (though he has great instincts), he was enthusiastically praising Shore’s originality, though perhaps not in the most musically accurate way.

>>>Then, on the same documentary, we hear a fragment of an alternate version of Sawise The Brave. Any chance of hearing the full piece on the CR? Also, in the same "alternate version" vein, as Mr. Brouceck (can't remember his first name) tells us that Howard Shore is incredibly busy as a composer because he orchestrates and conducts, we see Howard conducting an alternate version of the scene in which Merry tells Pippin there won't be a Shire anymore. It has a richer orchestration with gentle horns.
If I'm not mistaken, the film version of this "cue" is tracked into the "It's the one place we're trying to get to" scene. Or the other way around.>>>

Good question here. (Mr. Broucek is Paul Broucek, by the way, New Line’s Executive In Charge of Music for the LOTR films and a big part of the reason that Shore was able to express himself the way he was. Broucek has been an absolutely tireless supporter of these scores, and of the Music of LOTR book as well.)

Anyway, in the case of the alternate Samwise the Brave piece, this was an entirely different composition that wasn’t used in the final film. You’ll have to wait a bit to see what happens with this recording (sorry, no hints on this one yet!), but when you listen to your TTT:CR set, you’ll hear the film version in the appropriate spot.

If music was trimmed or a small section tracked in the final film, you’ll hear the appropriate measures restored to the way Shore wrote them. If there’s a completely alternate composition, you’ll hear the composition with which you’re familiar in the sequence.

In the case of the Merry scene, this was not an alternate composition, just an alternate couple of measures that were investigated, then abandoned. Neither Shore not Jackson were completely satisfied, and so these few measures were rewritten until both men were happy. This was all part of the process, however. Sometimes two beats were rewritten. Sometimes a composition would be performed both with a solo instrument included, and with that instrument excluded. Sometimes Shore would conduct the orchestra to elicit a slightly different dynamic in the performance. These types of things will not be heard—for now—because they’re really part of the sketchpad of the LOTR scores. You may hear some of this one day, so that you can hear how the shape of a five minute composition was altered when three measures at 2:37 seconds were tweaked over the course of 15 takes. But there are terabytes of this stuff, and someone would need to go through it all and find which examples are actually interesting and illustrative of some point before it could go before an audience. After all, you don’t want to hear 939 takes where one instrument is slightly out of tune, right? This is why I always chuckled a little when people fussed over the non-literal use of the term “Complete Recordings.” The literal complete recordings would run about 30 discs per score, and require you to pay over a thousand dollars for hours and hours of flubbed takes.

>>>And I've also got a purely musical question about FOTR's liner notes: in the analysis of the Fellowship theme, you mention that the melody itself is in a minor mode, while its harmonisation is in major.
My question is: how do you (with the "you" being not personal) know the melody is in minor? Don't you need a chord or a chord progression to determine minor or major? I would think that since the harmonisation is in major, the theme is also in major ... ? >>>

Well, let’s look at this from two ways. First, pitches do not need to be stacked vertically (i.e. chordally) in order to indicate a certain harmony. Play a major scale. Play a minor scale. Right there you can understand the harmonic implications without ever actually playing harmony. It’s harmony by context.

Now take a D-natural minor scale: D E F G A Bb C D

(There are other D-minor scales, incidentally, such as D-harmonic minor, which includes a C#. You could also use a B-natural and a C#, which would be D-melodic minor. These are both byproducts of functional harmony. The scale we’re talking about here is D-natural minor… or, modally speaking, D Aolian. There many other modes available as well… Miles Davis used a little D Dorian here and there to great effect. If you’re really interested it stretching your harmonic sense, I’d suggest you pick up Slonimsky’s Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns, which is just fascinating.

Anyway, the above scale is unquestionably minor, yes? So what if I were to harmonize it as (one chord per note):

D Major
C Major
F Major
Eb Major
F Major
Eb Major
C Major
D Major

There, I’ve harmonized a minor scale with major (and slightly Shore-esque) harmonies. If that D-minor scale is my theme, then I’d just have pulled off the same trick Shore did with the Fellowship theme.

The Fellowship theme, however, is far more diverse and interesting than my boring minor scale “theme,” but I’m sure you get the point.

D is clearly the tonic pitch in this theme. The key signature will carry one flat (if a key signature is to be used… often chromatic writing such as this ignores that nicety altogether). So to the eye, if would look the same as F Major (the parallel major), but a quick harmonic reading will show you that you’re in D.

This isn’t really too innovative or unusual—John Williams uses the same type of effect for the opening bars of the Imperial March—but Shore certainly makes the most of it. I should point out that the theme isn’t always harmonized like this. There are time when Shore simply lets the theme be totally minor, especially when things are looking grim for the Fellowship.

As for the question of the dominant, you’re right, the Fellowship theme doesn’t close with a V – i cadence. It closes III – VII – i. But even that isn’t too unusual if you consider all the modal medieval music written before Bach and his ilk began to standardize functional Western harmony.

So now Shore’s concept of ancient / modern music really begins to make sense, huh?

<waits...impatiently>



ttbk

[kams]

These types of things will not be heard—for now—because they’re really part of the sketchpad of the LOTR scores. You may hear some of this one day, so that you can hear how the shape of a five minute composition was altered when three measures at 2:37 seconds were tweaked over the course of 15 takes. But there are terabytes of this stuff, and someone would need to go through it all and find which examples are actually interesting and illustrative of some point before it could go before an audience. After all, you don’t want to hear 939 takes where one instrument is slightly out of tune, right? This is why I always chuckled a little when people fussed over the non-literal use of the term “Complete Recordings.” The literal complete recordings would run about 30 discs per score, and require you to pay over a thousand dollars for hours and hours of flubbed takes.

ok, ok, I'm not that rabid for a complete "Complete Recordings."

thanks ttbk. Lots of goods stuff from Doug Adams in this post.

[TheTennisBallKid]

Hi everyone,

A spare moment has deposited itself on my doorstep – the TTT liners are done! And I mean actually done. Content, layout, everything. Fittingly, the final tweak was the placement of my name… because it had been set so as to make it appear that a picture of a marimba was labeled “Doug Adams.” (Even more confusing, it was an Adams brand marimba!)

So start your eye exercises now… there’s a whole bunch of tiny-fonted text coming your way soon!

>>>Doug. If there were going to be a multimedia aspect to your book, I would like to advocate for having audio examples of some of the musical concepts you discuss in the liner notes and, to a small extent, just now. Chords, harmonys, minor, major... I know what those words mean but I don't have enough musical knowledge to apply them in a meaningful way. I could almost cry when I see conversations like this and know that this is exciting stuff and I'm missing it all.>>>

I just had a conversation with Mr. Shore late last week regarding multimedia content with the book, and he had some *really* exciting ideas. Even with my grand plans, I was left asking, “Really, we can do that!?” Nothing’s solid yet, but that’s the next big thing to tackle, and it’s looking to be amazing!

>>>I'm hesitant to ask questions because I'm so aware of the fine line you walk with information. But this one's itching to be asked. You wrote: "Other than the songs, Shore didn’t write any new “material” for the credits in terms of new themes, but many the arrangements are unique to the credits." You've indicated Bilbo's Song was written especially for the credits but you used songs/plural. Does that mean that the song Sissel sings was also written for the credits? I can live with waiting for CR-ROTK, but the subject came up.>>>

The Sissel piece was written for the post-battle Fields of Pelennor and the Houses of Healing. Arwen’s song wasn’t originally going to be in there. And yes, of course, we’ll get to all the specific details in ROTK: CR.

>>>I'm also wondering about a song title for TTT that appeared in the Music for the Movies issue devoted to LOTR called "The Deeping Wall". It gave Elizabeth Frasier as the singer but it also lists Haldir's Lament and The March of the Ents so it can't be either of those two pieces. Was this some wrong information or is this something that gets illuminated in the CR-TTT?>>>

Sometimes a text would get one title, but the composition in which it was used would get another. You’ll even notice in the FOTR: CR credits there will be some “also known as” credits regarding texts and such. Most this was due to the legal filing of the cue sheets and copyrights. For example, the text would have its title (as decided by Philippa or Fran or Tolkien), the composition would have one title, it would get another title when edited into the OST, then another title again as it was entered into the CR. So there are a lot of multiple titles out there. (Sometimes there were even alternate text titles to deal with as well!) The Haldir’s Lament text was used inside the composition (originally) titled “The Deeping Wall.”

>>>Doug, once again, thank you for your insight! For someone who says that they don't have much info that sure was a lengthy post!>>>

I’m a fast… and lousy… typist.

>>>One question for you, have you ever pitched the idea to Howard Shore for a Q&A session here on the boards? Maybe to conincide with the release of TTT:CR? Of course this would be dependant on H.S.'s available time.>>>

Honestly, I don’t know that he’d have the time at this point, but I’m sure he appreciates the interest.

>>>However, your book or the rarities (whatever) disc, any ideas on the design(s) as yet? Know its too early, but wouldn't it look good if the design was based on the CR designs? In gold? silver(mithril)? And you don't have to answer this if you don't know the answers right now. I know how it feels to tell people that things haven't been decided as yet>>>

Yeah, there’s no idea on this yet! I’ll let you know once we’re getting closer.

>>>by the way how does the edit sound and have you got a hint at how long it is going to be or will that come in the press release?>>>

It sounds spectacular… and I haven’t even heard the DVD version yet. It’ll be longer than FOTR: CR, that’s all I can say right now. The press release will hint at a playing time, but as I noted in an earlier post, it’ll be deceptive.

>>>Nice to hear about that dwarven piece from the ROTK. If you said beer then it must be the music played during the drinking contest. >>>

I’d say that’s a pretty solid guess!

>>>And if your book will contain stuff from ROTK, then is it possible that you'll release it after ROTK:CR?>>>

The last I’ve heard, the publishers would like to have the book out around the same time as ROTK: CR, if not slightly earlier. That doesn’t mean that’s exactly when it will happen, but seems to be the prevailing thought at the moment.

>>>P.S.:Was Howard Shore inspired after Dvorak's first 5-6 seconds of the 9th symphony "New World",Largo movement,for a certain piece of shire music?Those 5-6 seconds of Dvorak sound a bit like the music played when the fellowship reunites in frodo's bedroom:ROTK,second dvd,1:34:36-1:34:43.Thanks again.>>>

The only specific nod in the score is Shore’s Wagner reference in the ROTK credits. Anything past that is simply a matter of coincidence.

>>>So, has it been decided yet how to deal with those "entirely different compositions"? You don't have to tell us what they are planning to do, just say YES or NO>>>

It has been decided that you’ll hear them eventually. So, “YES.”

>>>And since you brushed on the topic "Star Wars", let me ask you a simple question:
which trilogy do you think is more complex, Lord of the Rings or Star Wars? I think this is a battle that will go on as long as good vs. evil exists.>>>

You know, I don’t know that that is a judgment I can make – not for any sort of bureaucratic reasons, but for artistic ones. Complexity is a pretty subjective thing. Is Pollock more complex or is Picasso? It’s hard to say because they were after such different aesthetics. I can happily say that I find both trilogies to be quite complex in their own ways. Mr. Shore is a fan of Williams’ Star Wars writing, and Mr. Williams applauded enthusiastically when Shore won his first Oscar. Seems like a nice amicable situation to me!

>>>And since you're already reading this post, if you had to pick one score of each trilogy as your favourite, which ones would you chose?>>>

In Star Wars, I’d have to say Empire is still my favorite, but that was the first score I ever heard on record, so maybe I’m biased. In LOTR – that’s really hard to say. I tend to feel that whatever I’m currently listening to is the best, which is a good sign! When I was working on FOTR I always felt, “Boy you know, this is really the strongest one, isn’t it?” When I started working on TTT I started to think, “Wow so much more breadth and verticality. This has got to be the finest of the lot!” Guess what I’ll think when I start ROTK…

>>>I reserve judgment on the Lord of the Rings scores until I hear all of the Complete Recordings. I know that sounds like a cop-out, but ever since I got the CR of Fellowship, my estimation of that score as a purely musical work has increased immeasurably - and watching the film was a completely different experience after hearing the score in complete form.>>>

You’re about to experience that again very soon! I promise you.

>>>Anyway, to quote Doug Adams:

Don't panic!

That's easy to say when you've got access to the whole thing in every stage of its production>>>

Well, to be fair, I think he’s quoting the other Doug Adams! You know, the real one.

>>>By the way, Doug is constantly talking about ROTK's new hobbit material, has anyone noticed this new material?
I'm afraid I'm a little thick here. I've never looked at Bilbo's Song as a pure hobbit piece ... ?>>>

There are several new developments of the Shire material in this score, and I’m not simply referring to some of the recaps at the end. New Shire material is doled out in interesting ways, as you’ll see in TTT. These films are essentially told from a hobbit-centric point of view, and so the Shire material is constantly treated to new guises, accumulating like the hobbits’ experiences. It’s not so much that there are brand new themes, it’s that the existing material moves into new molds.

As for the Bilbo piece… it’s mature hobbit music. It still features the boys. It still begins with the 1-2-3 stepwise motion. But there’s a new weighty quality to its development.

>>>And I thought the press release would include pics...>>>

The FOTR press release did not include pics, so I suspect this one will not either. I guess it could, but it would be news to me.

>>>Okay, I'm tired of "deep breaths before plunges"...there's just been too much of silence. The weeks are going by and they seem like years and I feel like I'm aging without anything to sustain me. I need something, maybe news about The Hobbit, or about 10th anniversary LOTR release with deleted scenes "back where they belong" or maybe news about TTT:CR??>>>

Oh dear! Well, as they say, man does not live by bread alone! Even I need to climb out of Middle-earth now and then and take a walk, go out for a movie, hang out with friends and loved ones, etc. Remember, Tolkien was very big on the ideas and themes in LOTR being applied in real life as well!

>>>Also, in the FOTR annotated score, could someone please explain the Unused Concept on page 12? Doug says that Mr.Shore had written and recorded music for the "theatrical edit of the gift giving scene." Huh?? Doug?>>>

Well, in the film’s Theatrical Cut the gift giving scene was cut down to the point that it was nothing more than the Fellowship departing in boats. But the fact remains that this was the gift giving scene, despite the fact that we’ll have to assume the actual gift giving happened off screen. (Remember, Frodo somehow has that phial in ROTK.) Referring to the "theatrical edit of the gift giving scene” is a way to say this a bit more concisely.

>>>At the begining of the TTT:EE scoring documentary, you see (and hear) a clip from the FOTR scoring sessions showing the scene where Merry and Pippin create a diversion at Parth Galen so Frodo can escape.

In the film, we get just a hint of the Reclamation of Nature theme in that scene, but here it gets a lengthier statement, with a brass ending that I almost thought must have come from the Rohirrim at Pelennor...

Is there a story here? (perhaps they wanted to save the development of the theme for later?)

And is this piece a possible candidate for release as a rarity?>>>

Both the music and the story are indeed candidates! (Yes, there was some discussion on this recently!)

-Doug

ttbk

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Well, in the film’s Theatrical Cut the gift giving scene was cut down to the point that it was nothing more than the Fellowship departing in boats. But the fact remains that this was the gift giving scene, despite the fact that we’ll have to assume the actual gift giving happened off screen. (Remember, Frodo somehow has that phial in ROTK.) Referring to the "theatrical edit of the gift giving scene” is a way to say this a bit more concisely.

Doug is forgetting that the TE does show Galadriel giving the phial to Frodo.

[TheTennisBallKid]

Yep. I think it can be excused though, since it's been a while since he's been focused on FOTR, and since his original wording acknowledged that the there was gift-giving in the TE.


And now I'm listening to the alternate Parth Galen piece over and over....





ttbk

[TheTennisBallKid]

Howard Shore.com:

Howard Shore’s complete Grammy-winning score for The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers, from the epic film trilogy The Lord of the Rings, will be available in a deluxe four-disc edition from Reprise/WMG Soundtracks on November 7, 2006.

This historic release contains over 180 minutes of music on three CDs, comprising the full score of the 2002 film, composed by Howard Shore. The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers, The Complete Recordings marks the second edition of the three complete recording releases of the film trilogy whose score has been honored with three Academy Awards, four Grammy Awards and two Golden Globe Awards, and which has sold over 6 million copies worldwide. This deluxe set also includes exclusive new artwork, packaging, extensive liner notes written by Doug Adams, and “Gollum’s Song” performed by Emiliana Torrini.

Composed for symphony orchestra and choir, The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers, The Complete Recordings was performed by London Philharmonic Orchestra, The London Voices, The London Oratory School Schola featuring vocal performances by Emiliana Torrini, Isabel Bayrakdarian, Sheila Chandra, Elizabeth Fraser, Ben Del Maestro and cast member Miranda Otto.

The fourth disc is a DVD-Audio presenting the entire The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers, The Complete Recordings in 5.1 Surround Sound.

The boxed set for the complete recordings of the first film, The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring – The Complete Recordings, was released on December 13, 2005 . It spent months in Amazon.com’s top 100 Sales Ranking, and garnered some of the best reviews of the year. “For fans of any of The Lord of the Rings films, The Fellowship of the Ring/Complete Recordings is an essential experience,” Heather Phares, All Music Guide. “The Complete Recordings is last year’s most important archival soundtrack release, expanding and preserving one of the finest and most significant recent scores in all of film music. Shore’s Lord Of The Rings trilogy is an operatic symphony that is among the finest musical accomplishments of the last half-century. The plethora of unreleased material on this beautifully packaged edition is mouth-watering at the least, and the sonic dynamic achieved on the surround sound DVD of the entire 180-minute score is simply astonishing. ” Randall Larson, Music From the Movies

Composer of over sixty-five film scores, Howard Shore brought a lifetime of experience to creating the epochal soundtrack for The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers. Shore used Tolkien's texts and drew from multiple periods throughout music history to evoke the book’s enchanted worlds. He developed over 80 leitmotifs to describe the cultures of Middle-earth . Collaborating with authors/lyrists Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens, he composed choral music utilizing the Tolkien-created languages for the Elves (Quenya and Sindarin), the Dwarves (Khuzdûl), Men (Adûnaic) and the evil cultures of Mordor (Black Speech). For Rohan, all the choral text was set in Old English.

In 2003, working with conductor John Mauceri, Shore created The Lord of the Rings Symphony, a two-hour 6 movement concert piece drawing from the nearly 12 hours of music he composed for Peter Jackson’s landmark film trilogy. This piece features a full symphony orchestra, adult and children's choirs, as well as solo instrumentalists and vocalists, totaling more than 200 musicians on stage. Since its debut in November 2003 in Wellington, New Zealand, The Lord of the Rings Symphony has been performed in sold-out concerts on four continents and in some of the world’s most legendary venues, including London’s Royal Albert Hall, Moscow’s Kremlin Palace Theater and Sydney’s Opera House . Some of the world’s leading international orchestras – including the Cleveland Orchestra, the Philadelphia Orchestra, the Pittsburgh Symphony and London Philharmonic – have performed The Lord of the Rings Symphony in addition to regional orchestras across the United States, and this past July, the symphony celebrated its 100th performance by the San Francisco Symphony.

The UK’s Classic FM voted The Lord of the Rings soundtracks the Best Film Score of All Time for five consecutive years. Shore’s other impressive film credits include Martin Scorsese’s The Aviator (Golden Globe Award), David Fincher’s Se7en and Panic Room, Jonathan Demme’s The Silence of the Lambs and Philadelphia, and 11 films with David Cronenberg including A History of Violence and Spider . Shore is currently writing an opera based on his film collaboration with Cronenberg, The Fly, commissioned for the Los Angeles Opera, and he is also completing work on his fifth collaboration with Martin Scorsese, The Departed, starring Leonardo DiCaprio, Matt Damon, Jack Nicholson, Martin Sheen and Mark Wahlberg.

Says Shore of his time on The Lord of the Rings, “Everybody felt that we were working on something important. It was a film that welcomed the intensity of our efforts. As much as we put into it, it showed us more. It was endlessly revealing working on The Lord of the Rings.”

ttbk

[TheTennisBallKid]

Hi everybody,

Like the new digs! Thanks to Peter for letting me know the thread was relocated. I will try to address a couple of questions best I can.

First, sorry about the November 7 switcheroo… I heard about the change about 2 days before the press release went out, but felt it was better to let the PR do the talking at that point. I don’t know what prompted the move, but don’t worry, it’s not due to any sort of problem. We’re cleaning up Annotated Score materials now and the DVD menus are being finalized, so everything is right on schedule.

On the issue of deceptive running times, let me clarify a little. Yes, TTT runs longer than 180 minutes. FOTR did also, but TTT is a bit longer than FOTR. However, remember that FOTR’s running time includes over five minutes of Plan 9 music, two Enya pieces, and about 30 seconds of Fran Walsh’s Drinking Song… er, make that the song Fran Walsh wrote for the hobbits to sing while drinking!

Anyway, TTT only includes one melody by Plan 9 (Éowyn’s piece), and that’s entirely performed over Shore’s score. So even when you do get an official running time for the Two Towers set, remember that this time, the ENTIRE playing time is dedicated to Shore’s music… so you’re actually getting significantly more score.

Does that make a little more sense?

>>>One of those moments happened few days ago while I was listening to the TTT OST. Suddenly I became aware that the track 9, White Rider, contains the Orc/Isengard 5/4 rhythm underneath the Exorcism of Théoden bit of the track (0;13-0;38). I was stunned once again. This was a detail that had gone unnoticed by me for ages and now it suddenly became clear. And the thematic reference makes perfect sense as Gandalf is battling Saruman for Théoden's soul and Shore pits Isengard material against White Rider music. This depth really makes these scores something extraordinary.>>>

The Five Beat Pattern is really quite viral in this score… or perhaps parasitic. It’s all over the place, but it’s generally trying to squirm its way inside other material and take it over. The Théoden bit above is a great example. You’ll soon be able to hear a version or two you’ve never heard before as well.

>>>Personally, I'm really looking forward to the unreleased Nazgûl music in the Dead Marshes. It scared the hell out of me in teh theatre.>>>

Much of what you heard in the theater in this scene was created through mixing… like the big choral crescendo. You’ll hear quite a bit more on disc – it really fleshes out the first appearance of a Nazgûl in TTT, both tying him firmly to the FOTR Black Riders, and making him seem much more vicious and dangerous.

>>>I am looking forward a number of cues like the Boromir flashback scene and the small rendition of Nature's theme while Merry and Pippin lie tied up at the edge of Fangorn and Merry tells the little story about the trees of Buckland and that Nazgûl over Dead Marshes cue.>>>

Just wait until you hear the unused end of the Fangorn piece!

>>>DOUG, did you say that there would be more Gandalf the White material presented on the CR than what's in the film (and OST)?>>>

I did, indeed.

I’m not kidding, there are a huge number of unused bits in this score. If the EE was one large step beyond the Theatrical version of this score, then the CR is the same sized step beyond the EE.

>>>I hope there is a track from the scene where Gandalf talks to Aragorn about Sauron fearing him.>>>

It’s in there, of course. Heck, that one could never be left off anyway… it includes a tiny premonition of one of the most important themes in The Lord of the Rings!

-Doug

ttbk

[TheTennisBallKid]

Hi everyone,

Thought I'd try some answers this morning.

>>>I thought the theme referred in that little scene in TTT is the Completion of
the Quest/Destruction of the Ring (as I call it) theme which is heard in the End
of All Things (3;53-> ).>>>

>>>I think I know what theme it is. I believe it is a hint of the majestic,
ending variation of the Sauron theme, which plays over the falling Barad-dûr and
Black Gates, in ROTK.>>>

>>>Ya, I think were talking about the same theme here. Am I the only one who
thinks that it has a little of the Sauron theme in it? I sense the same up and
down motion in the beginning of each theme. It also makes sense to me, being a
"majestic, ending variation" as it plays over the "ending" of Sauron's reign.>>>

You're definitely in the right headspace here. The Evil of the Ring is bound up in this "new" theme, but there are other connections. It's an answering theme, one which resolves several of the music conflicts within Middle-earth. It's a complicated little line... and that complication is compounded in Two Towers where you're not really sure what it's telling you. Happy Sauron music? Huh?

What a brilliant little moment!

>>>I think we will be guessing the theme up untill we have the RotK liner notes

We all have a prospective candidate.>>>

It'll get a little attention in TTT's notes, but yes, ROTK will explain much more.

>>>Thank you for the update Mr. Adams.Regarding the two versions of Théoden
music never heard before,could one of them be the music played during the
Appendices menu from disc 4 of TTT:EE?I remember that it sounded
rohanish,beautiful and never heard before.Or is it smth else?>>>

Are you referring to the Main Menu music? If so, that’s from the EE scene during the exodus from Edoras. Théoden is talking about Éowyn, and how he should have been a father to her. It’s just before she brings out the awful looking stew. That’s why there are a few hints of Éowyn’s primary theme in there.

>>>Hello, I'm new here and it took me hours to read everything related to the
LOTR scores. I really enjoy the score, but when I read all this, I understand I
know nothing yet. And I really want to do something about that.

It's just amazing how much interesting things Doug Adams is posting here. Even
in Belgium (where I'm living) people interested in soundtracks know your name!
(Now you know I'm from Belgium, you might want to forgive my poor English

I'm looking forward to CR from TT but now my priority is finding a cue by cue
analysis from CR FOTR so I can really discuss things with all of you (Afterwards
I can study TT, which I already have found on this site - great cue by cue
analysis by the way- I found one from CR FOTR made on this site but it's not complete.

Is there anyone that can help me?

Looking forward to new information

I think I'm gonna like it here ;>>>

Thanks, glad you're here, Matthijs.

>>>Much of what you heard in the theater in this scene was created through
mixing... like the big choral crescendo. You'll hear quite a bit more on disc -
it really fleshes out the first appearance of a Nazgûl in TTT, both tying him
firmly to the FOTR Black Riders, and making him seem much more vicious and
dangerous.

Uuh, are you saying that "cue" was tracked in? Or that there were just some
instrument sections dropped in the mixing?>>>

It's a little of everything to be honest. Sections of Shore's original composition are in there, but remixed. Some of the overlays, however, didn't originate with this composition. You'll see / hear. The full piece offers a much more extensive view of the Ringwraith and Mordor musics.

>>>This CR better be good, you've just raised my expectations a hell of alot!>>>

Well, all I can offer is my opinion... to my ears, yes it's that good.

>>>By the way, Plan 9 did the Éowyn song? I always thought it was, well,
improvised on set or something.>>>

Yes, Plan 9 gets the credit for that one. In the process of the assembly I was able to hear Miranda Otto's first take on this piece... the performance that was actually captured on-set. (Those of you who have paid attention all the film's Making Of... docs will remember that most of the film was looped because much of it was filmed near an airport, so they were constantly besieged by low-flying planes.) Her original take on the material was quite different, and I think it's a testament to her performing abilities that the final product sounds so organic and improvised.

>>>I'm wondering, does Plan 9 have a website? If they do I can't seem to find
it! I really enjoy the diagetic pieces they've created for the films. It would
be nice to see what other collaborations they've been involved in and whether
they've released other music.>>>

I do not believe that Plan 9 has their own website. Too bad, really, because I'd love to link to it through the notes.

>>>It's just amazing how much interesting things Doug Adams is posting here.
Even in Belgium (where I'm living) people interested in soundtracks know your
name!

Watch out, Howard Shore, soon the name of Doug Adams shall become better known
amongst thy followers than thy own!>>>

Ha! Well, let's just bear in the mind that Howard Shore created this beautiful work of music not me! I know I do a lot of the public stuff, but I wish that many of the people working on these releases were equally as visible. You can't imagine the amount of time effort and dedication they've applied towards this production. Each and every one of them deserves more kudos than we can ever offer.

>>>I watched a good part of TTT last night, and during the introduction of
Treebeard, did anyone else notice the unused music from Weathertop? This might
be an old hat for some of you, but I've never realised it until yesterday.>>>

You know, you've got a knack for noticing where great music has been cut out of the film--despite the fact that you haven't heard it before. Most impressive! The complete Entering Fangorn sequence features some of my favorite unused music in the entire film. There's an idea in the first half of the composition--which you have already heard--that returns two more times in the music, and builds up the wonderment of Treebeard. That's just a great piece... anxiety, fury, amazement, bemusement... it highlights Shore's gift for navigating an enormous trough of emotional material in a compact timeframe.

>>>Guys, could anybody please unveil what's the theme that we hear in the middle
of the ROTK trailer, when Aragorn cry "I see in your eyes the same fear..."?
This is a kind of version of Minas-Tirith theme, another abandoned concept?
Unfortunately I didn't hear this piece in the film, any hope for CR?>>>

The ROTK trailer is a unique beast. Shore wrote the music for the trailer (hence the use of the Heroics of Aragorn theme), but the final product was sort of remixed and punched up by an outside company.

>>>Beren, the theme that occurs as Aragorn makes his way to Helm's Deep is the
"Heroics of Aragorn" theme. The most similar rendition of that theme in FoTR is
when Aragorn begans to fight the Uruk-hai at Amon Hen. Listen to both and you'll
hear the similarity. Simply awesome...>>>

That theme makes a number of appearances in both TTT and ROTK, but often masked... or attached to other themes. It's another incredibly significant little bit of music!

>>>Actually, I was thinking the same thing...and I realized that it happened
sometime around when the Annotated Score showed up on the soundtrack site. So I
guess we can look for that happening as an indication that things are hotting
up.>>>

If I remember, the FOTR Annotated Score went live a day or two after the CDs hit the shelves. I don't know what Reprise / Warners has planned this time out, but I'm sure the web material will coincide closely with the CD release. I doubt the new web material will be up before the set is released, but I suppose it's possible.

>>>Now about the running time again; in the special LOTR issue of Music From The
Movies, there are specific numbers mentioned:>>>

I don’t remember exactly where MFTM came up with these numbers (I don't have the issue with me at the moment), but despite their Herculean efforts with this piece, I think they’ve sort of misrepresented what these numbers actually mean.

Now, I’m obviously not criticizing MFTM, because they did a great job. But I think if you’re going to take a holistic approach to the LOTR music, you need to do it terms of musical composition, not minutes and seconds. The time factor is too murky, and I don’t think any one’s ever going to come to a consensus on how to apply it. If Shore rewrote 30 bars in the middle of a 500 measure piece, how do you tabulate the minutes of music written? What about an EE piece that was book ended on either side by 10 measures which were also in the Theatrical cut? They were recorded months apart, and they lead into different material, but how exactly do those minutes rack up? I could see them counting unused or alternate compositions, but even that gets muddy. You all know from the Two Towers DVD that there’s an alternate version of the track that was called “Samwise the Brave” on the OST. But only the first few minutes of a very long composition are different, so what’s the minute total on that?

See what I mean? The numbers game doesn’t really present a very clear picture. What you’re getting in the boxed sets is a complete set of the final version of all the compositions Shore wrote for The Lord of the Rings. You will eventually get non-final versions, but that’s later. Right now, it’s story time! Peeking behind the scenes comes later.

>>>FYI...I love love love the Fan Credit pieces that featured at the end in all three of the movies. I hope that the pieces will surface in the future on CD...the rarities disk perhaps. I wonder if will be with Doug's book. Anyway, my opinion...the pieces should have been included on the CR disks...but I think their length would have prohibited their inclusion.>>>

The Fan Scroll music hasn’t been presented as part of the end credits because it’s already in the movie. Those suites were just edited together from music around the film, and since that music is already on the CRs’ in its proper narrative placement it seemed aesthetically “off” to say, "Ok here it is again… uh, except now it's shorter and non-narrative." (Ok, ok, talk about misrepresenting something… now I’m doing it! Yes, the FOTR scroll contains the NZSO’s take on the Breaking of the Fellowship music… so it’s *technically* incorrect to imply you’re hearing it “again.” However, the narrative disconnect theory still applied here pretty strongly as it made little musical sense to hear the same lengthy chunk of music two times within 10 minutes—give or take—of play time.)

>>>I agree. My favorite one is the Fellowship(title 1, chapter 21 1:55:40 on my dvd player). It's mainly just the strings performing the Fellowship theme and there's something plaintive and pure about it that makes it the most beautiful version of that theme to me. I was a little sad when I found out that it wasn't on the CR set. But it is nice to have it on the EE dvd.>>>

Yes, this is the New Zealand Symphony’s take on the music. While you do have London Philharmonic’s reading, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the NZSO’s turn up… someday.

>>>If i'm not wrong HS recorded 12hrs of music for LOTR.That would mean that TTT and ROTK CR should be at least 4h30 minutes in lenght.Maybe we'll not get to hear all the recorded music after all.However the're might be a rarities disc,but it would be A disc;with a maximum of 80 minutes of music.But it will still remain some 7h40 minutes for TTT and ROTK.So that's 444 minutes for each=>unfitted on 3 discs.>>>

TTT—in its entirety—fits on three discs. No worries.

>>>Isn't a rarity per definiton a piece that's in NO version of the film?>>>

Yes and no. There will be music on TTT:CR that is in no version of the film… heck there’s music on the OST that’s in no version of the film. (Treebeard’s bassoon, for one.) I guess the definition of “rarity” in this instance would be concepts that were recorded, but passed over in favor of revised musical concepts (“musical,” because the concept of silence doesn’t apply).

>>>I think that RotK has more "(very) high strings" music in the score than in TT and FotR. There's an ascending motive that's all high strings. Is this true, DOUG?>>>

Heh, I’ve never had to quantify high string writing before…but sure, I guess so, why not! ROTK, in general, features the most extroverted writing of LOTR.

>>>I've thought about something for the past few months...I think there's a connection between 3 themes, and "death" or "fading away" is the connection. The themes are: Minas Tirith(the first 4 notes), Into the West(the first 4 notes), and 'Théoden's Old Age' motive(in TTT) (all 4 notes). What do ya think? DOUG???>>>

Although I’m all for these type of connections, it may be a stretch to apply one in this case. Minas Tirith begins on the fifth degree of a Lydian mode and isn’t totally stepwise. Into the West begins on the fourth degree on an Ionian mode and *is* stepwise. And the Théoden material I *think* you’re referring to is actually a theme that’s between Éowyn and Théoden… which is why it’s nearly identical to her primary theme. This theme climaxes on the fields on the Pelennor when Éowyn slays the Witch-king, so it’s really much more her theme… a theme of self actualization rather than decline.

>>>One more thing...I just realized (and this might be an "old hat" for some of you) that some of the same text/music is used for 2 choral parts in TT: Right before Gandalf falls in Moria and as he reveals himself as Gandalf the White to possessed Théoden. I'm not sure what the text is, but it sounds something like: ae tah nah. Pretty cool connection, whatever it means. DOUG?>>>

>>>Mettana : To the end (Quenya)>>>

Magpie’s got it. It’s from Philippa Boyens’ text “The Fight.”

>>>Actually, she said once the CRs are out, she most likely will take the site off the web.>>>

I know Magpie has already addressed this, but I would like to add that it would be absolutely heartbreaking if her site were to go off-line. I hope it’s around forever.

>>>I was wondering, (perhaps it's already discussed) at the beginning of FOTR CR (after 30 seconds) brass and strings build op to one of the Ring themes. This building up is repeated somethimes further on. I was wondering if this building up has a connection to some of the themes or is it just a building up?>>>

It’s really just a little build up into the History of the Ring theme, no greater dramatic significance than that. A transitional passage. But you’re absolutely right that it’s the same bar and half or so in each instance.

>>>And there is something else i'm woundering about. (you can say when I'm repeating things already discussed, I know this might be familiar to you , sorry for that)The music, played when Isildur is attacked and he loses the ring. Is that related to something else?>>>

This will be a major point of discussion in ROTK. You’ll see more then!

>>>In actual fact, before the ROTK cinema release had come out (about 6 months prior), I once heard a rumor that they actually shot nine different possible endings....I don't know if this is true or not, but one never knows........>>>

I think there was a short scene shot of Éowyn and Faramir’s wedding… and possibly even some departures with the Fellowship members each going their own way after the coronation. None of these were ever scored, however.

>>>how is the track list coming along, is it finalized yet and if so, will it appear on the net soon?>>>

Yep, the track list is finalized and has been since late July. I’m guessing that the list will hit the web same as it did with FOTR… some online dealer will get info from the label and post it on their site. Who had it up first last time, Barnes & Noble? I can’t remember. I suppose it’s always possible that the official Howard Shore site will list the tracks first, but I don’t have any info regarding that, sorry.

>>>And what about some samples?Just a taste of its beauty.>>>

Again, I’m not in that loop, so I don’t know. I think it would be rather ill-advised of me to start posting clips on my own, so I think I’ll steer away from that!

>>>Am I right if I say that the long string lines played when Bilbo is talking to Gandalf in the kitchen (about getting old etc...) can be linked to the long string lines played when Gandalf is talking to Frodo in Moria about Gollem (just before the incredibly beautiful line : all you have to decide ... is said)? And are there other moments when these long strings make their appearance?>>>

These chords are based on the opening harmonies of the Shire theme which, in a certain even-paced rhythm, eventually become the Hymn Setting of the Shire theme. It hasn’t fully formed yet in this scene, but it’ll be back shortly when Frodo and Bilbo talk at the birthday party. The Hymn Setting is the least used setting of the Shire theme, but it gets around a bit.

>>>I think I discovered something (or perhaps it's been discovered and I just didn't know it), the underscore when Bilbo has given his speech and is talking to himself, isnt't that the same rythm as the Ringwraith Theme --> referring to the consequences of putting the ring on?>>>

I think it could be read as either a light version of Wraith material, or as a dark version of the Hobbit End Cap. I would tend to go with the latter—especially considering that Bilbo knows little of the Wraiths at this point, and because the glassy quintuplet figures above are based on the Hobbit Outline figure. But it’s certainly open to a bit of interpretation, I think.

>>>P.P.S.:One short question:what prophecy is actually reffering to the music piece with the same title from the FOTR:OST?>>>

It may interest you to know that the original title of this text was “The Battle of Dagorlad.” Make of that what you will.

>>>Focusing on the TT:CR so much I almost forgot about the rarities disc w/book that is supposed to come out some time next year. A brush up on the preliminary details or an overview would be nice. Doug?>>>

It’s still a bit early to discuss either of those right now, as discussions and decisions are still ongoing. But don’t fear, I’ll keep you posted.

However, I can tell you that the TTT Annotated Score is nearly done. Draft 2.5 is complete and awaiting revisions. The layout isn’t complete at all, but in its rough form, we’re already pushing 50 pages. So I’d say you can expect to encounter a fair number of details in there somewhere!

-Doug

ttbk

[TheTennisBallKid]

Starting to show up for pre-order:


Amazon.uk (£48.99)
Barnes and Nobles (List Price: $75.98; Online Price: $60.78)




ttbk

[TheTennisBallKid]

Tracklist:
1. Glamdring
2. Elven Rope
3. Lost In Emyn Muil
4. My Precious
5. Ugluks Warriors
6. The Three Hunters
7. The Banishment Of Éomer
8. Night Camp
9. The Plains Of Rohan
10. Fangorn
11. The Dead Marshes
12. Wraiths On Wings
13. Gandalf The White
14. The Dreams Of Trees
15. The Heir Of Númenor
16. Ent-draught
17. Edoras
18. The Court Of Meduseld
19. Théoden King
20. The Kings Decision
21. Exodus From Edoras
22. The Forests Of Ithilien
23. One Of The Dúnedain
24. The Wolves Of Isengard
25. Refuge At Helms Deep
26.: The Voice Of Saruman
27. Arwens Fate
28. The Story Foretold
29. Sons Of The Steward
30. Rock And Pool
31. Faramirs Good Council
32. Aragorns Return
33. War Is Upon Us
34. Where Is The Horse And The Rider?
35. The Host Of The Eldar
36.: The Battle Of The Hornburg
37. The Breach Of The Deeping Wall
38. The Entmoot Decides
39. Retreat
40. Master Peregrins Plan
41. The Last March Of The Ents
42. The Nazgûl Attack
43. Théoden Rides Forth
44. The Tales That Really Matter
45. Long Ways To Go Yet



ttbk

[Voronwë the Faithful]

Long Ways To Go Yet?

[TheTennisBallKid]

Gollum's Song/End Credits Suite, I guess.


<etheral choir begins to sing as the camera pans up to show Mordor -- the hobbits have a Long Ways To Go Yet>



ttbk