Of LotR, Game of Thrones and recent 'criticisms' of Tolkien

Post by **WampusCat** » Thu May 01, 2014 5:26 am

I'm getting dizzy.

Post by **yovargas** » Thu May 01, 2014 12:31 pm

Passdagas the Brown wrote:How else should superficial and/or condescending criticism be treated?

Though I disagree that GRRM is assessing Tolkien superficially...

Those two statements don't go together well.....I disagree as well which is why I bothered to bring it up.

Frelga wrote:And the criticism of the criticism of the criticism wasn't that much better.

Do you mean me saying I'm annoyed by the tone of some the responses in this thread?

Thu May 01, 2014 2:01 pm

What bothers me is seeing -- yet again -- the posts of others being misrepresented. No one said -- or implied -- that Martin or anyone else is stupid, and yet that is what is accused. These types of misrepresentations make any kind of real discourse impossible, and are a big part of why I tend to stay out of these discussions.

Post by **Alatar** » Thu May 01, 2014 2:03 pm

You may have noticed I'm staying out of it also, as there is no discourse happening that I saw, merely righteous grandstanding.

Post by **Smaug's voice** » Thu May 01, 2014 2:32 pm

Fine.
I was wrong to have started this thread and the discussion in the manner I did - however misinterprated it was by some - and truly regret to have done so. Blame on me.

I endeavor as well to stay out of such discussions.

PS: "Righteous grandstanding."
Alright, good.

Thu May 01, 2014 2:34 pm

SV, you did nothing wrong, and it bothers me more than anything that you feel badly about it.

Post by **yovargas** » Thu May 01, 2014 2:48 pm

Eh, I probably shouldn't have said anything.
Sorry, move along, nothing to see here.....

Post by **Alatar** » Thu May 01, 2014 2:56 pm

Honestly, its not worth falling out with anyone over. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Post by **axordil** » Thu May 01, 2014 2:59 pm

Bottom line: GRRM prefers mimesis over romance as a mode for fiction. Some here have a different preference. De gustibus non est disputandum. Next topic, please.

Post by **Passdagas the Brown** » Thu May 01, 2014 3:02 pm

yovargas wrote:
Passdagas the Brown wrote:How else should superficial and/or condescending criticism be treated?

Though I disagree that GRRM is assessing Tolkien superficially...
Those two statements don't go together well.....I disagree as well which is why I bothered to bring it up.

Frelga wrote:And the criticism of the criticism of the criticism wasn't that much better.
Do you mean me saying I'm annoyed by the tone of some the responses in this thread?

Understood. But though I disagree that GRRM is assessing Tolkien superficially, I do think that the articles SV posted in the OP assessed Tolkien not only very superficially, but also condescendingly. As such, I do not believe they merit serious consideration or respect.

SV may be presenting his argument a little stridently here, but I don't think he deserves the accusation of "righteous grandstanding," as Alatar put it. He's justifiably annoyed, IMO, at the kind of sneering attitude many Tolkien critics adopt.

That said, I think we should avoid hypocrisy by trying not to sneer too much at other fantasy authors, such as GRRM. While I think Tolkien is the far superior author, I understand GRRM's appeal.

Post by **Passdagas the Brown** » Thu May 01, 2014 3:04 pm

axordil wrote:Bottom line: GRRM prefers mimesis over romance as a mode for fiction. Some here have a different preference. De gustibus non est disputandum. Next topic, please.

And that's a wrap!

Post by **Alatar** » Thu May 01, 2014 3:20 pm

To be clear, I didn't name anyone when I made that comment and it could have applied to several posters.

Post by **Inanna** » Thu May 01, 2014 4:03 pm

Sigh. Kiss and make up?

Post by **yovargas** » Thu May 01, 2014 4:31 pm

Post by **Passdagas the Brown** » Thu May 01, 2014 5:13 pm

Alatar wrote:To be clear, I didn't name anyone when I made that comment and it could have applied to several posters.

Correct. Apologies for the mis-characterization. In any event, I don't feel that any posters here have been righteously grandstanding. If there's a defensiveness, it is likely a reaction to the sneering tone of some criticism.

But I agree that we, as Tolkien fans, should try to avoid treating fans of other fantasy authors the same way!

Post by **WampusCat** » Fri May 02, 2014 5:00 am

I suddenly feel a strong urge to righteously grandstand.

I'll suppress it.

Post by **Frelga** » Fri May 02, 2014 5:36 am

When I grandstand, it is wickedly.

This thread in a nutshell: