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 Post subject: Finrod reborn
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:35 pm 
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Sorry if this has been discussed already, or if I've forgotten something obvious here, but...

... I've always assumed that the line about Finrod walking in Eldamar 'exists' because Finrod was an exceptionally understanding and truly noble Elf; that is, the reader is 'meant' to know, not merely assume, that Finrod Felagund was certainly forgiven among the Exiles, and even 'soon' according to one text.

Plus -- and I know this is 'mixing' texts a bit -- Galadriel was banned for being a leader of the Exiles [RGEO] even when other Noldor were pardoned and allowed West. Seemingly Finrod was also a leader [and certainly so in the early 1950s phase of the Silmarillion], so, again if we allow this mix Finrod would have fallen under this special ban too.

In my opinion Tolkien went the extra mile to explain why Glorfindel was allowed in bodily form in Aman before the ban was lifted, noting that Glorfindel was a reluctant follower in the Rebellion, and describing his noble character and selfless act with respect to the Elves and Eärendil fleeing Gondolin.

I think we can say similar about Finrod, except for his leadership role in the Rebellion, but if so his pardoning is likewise notable given that he had that to 'overcome' where Glorfindel did not. Galadriel rejected the One Ring thousands of years after her brother's death, and was pardoned [although not just for this one act, it was significant].

After his death, we are told that Finrod walks in Eldamar.

Anyway, do you think Tolkien meant to suggest 'soon' as in even before the Ban was lifted? I believe he used the word soon in The Grey Annals, the second version of some passages describing the Beren and Lúthien tale. Granted soon is a bit vague. Or did this return at least await until after the Ban was lifted, but still 'soon' compared to other dead Exiles?

Or did Tolkien abandon that word? He seems to have injected Amarië in the early 1950s, but in the later Lay of Leithian we know that Felagund is more simply said to walk beneath the trees in Eldamar -- here not even with his father, specifically stated I mean, as if I recall correctly I think the 1977 Silmarillion took that much from the earlier QS and blended it with the poem.

Or is this, as I sometimes suspect, merely a case of a different text 'demanding' a[n] [even slightly] different description in any case. The poem could simply be briefer here, if Finrod's father or Amarië were not left out for a specific reason.


Also, at the time Tolkien wrote these passages, JRRT believed that the mode of reincarnation for Elves was that they were reborn 'into their children' so to speak, or at least into their close kin.

And I assume that Finrod's walking with his 'father' in Eldamar [QS] meant Finarfin, his original father as opposed to a new father -- granted, Tolkien would later change the idea that Elves needed to be reborn again, and so we can ultimately throw out a different looking 'Finrod' growing up in Eldamar, but it's interesting to think about the idea in the earlier context.

Or would Finrod be Finrod even physically, an exception even in the 1930s to the regular mode of reincarnation at the time?

And who would his second father have been? Gil-galad of course ;) ;) ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:29 pm 
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Very interesting, Galin! And quite timely, because I was just thinking of Finrod this morning, in relation to a discussion in the Tolkien film forum. I certainly agree that the line is meant to emphasize the fact that Finrod was an exceptionally understanding and truly noble Elf. Unfortunately, I don't have time to respond at length at this point, but I promise that I will be back!

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 Post subject: Re: Finrod reborn
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:47 pm 
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Drat. See below.


Last edited by Galin on Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Finrod reborn
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:48 pm 
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On the other hand perhaps we have a scenario like...

In working on The Road Goes Ever On [published 1967] Tolkien decided, upon close review of the already published lament namárië, that Galadriel had been banned for her role as a leader in the Rebellion, despite that earlier in The Lord of the Rings (just after rejecting the One) she implies that she can return West...

... okay but he sort of forgets that Finrod had been a leader too... or considers that Finrod's spirit, and actions once in Middle-earth, have paid the price. In Mandos Finrod is purged, and 'soon' returns, but Galadriel, still alive, while learning much from Melian in Doriath, is still too prideful and realm-of-her-own hungry at the end of the First Age.

In the Second Age Gil-galad is High King, so she can't really rule Lindon as its ultimate ruler [south Lindon may now be under Celeborn's lordship], and Celebrimbor the Feanorean founds and rules Eregion, in part given his great skills as a smith, with Mithril being the reason to head there in the first place (although I'm aware of the tale in Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn, where Galadriel and Celeborn found Eregion and Celebrimbor is not originally a Feanorean)...

... and Elrond founds Imladris so she cannot rule there. In the Third Age... erm, umm... Lindon aside for now (although we know Círdan is lord of the Havens anyway), ultimately Galadriel gets her chance, with Celeborn, in Lórien, when Amroth drowns and so on...

... I think Galadriel as 'Queen' of Lórien works better here (The Lord of the Rings [Gimli at least refers to her as a Queen], Of The Rings Of Power) at least at first... but perhaps she finally realizes that she should take no title (Unfinished Tales, they take no title of King or Queen, although admittedly this seems to suggest they never took these titles in Lórien. See also Tolkien's letter about a film treatment)...

... but in any case Galadriel is ruling a realm of her own, finally, if with Telpo... I mean Celeborn. And rejecting the Ring, is pardoned, and sails West.

Or something else :scratch:


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 Post subject: Re: Finrod reborn
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:50 pm 
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And?

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 Post subject: Re: Finrod reborn
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:09 pm 
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I dunno.

I'm not sure why I even started this thread. I can't now remember.

But its popularity cannot be denied :whistle:

:D


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 Post subject: Re: Finrod reborn
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:20 pm 
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:D

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