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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:18 pm 
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Off the top of my head, I can only think of 18 left that I don't recall seeing so far, 3 hobbits, one former hobbit, 3 men, 4 Elves, 2 half-Elves, one half Elf/half Maia, 3 Maia, and one former Vala. I wonder who I am missing?

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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:57 pm 
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Don't think too hard, just let it be... oops, don't want to spoil one of the songs either...


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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:01 pm 
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Time will tell (a very great song that I very much doubt will be included, unfortunately).

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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:41 am 
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VtF, I've edited 4 entries, #246 Salmar, #62 Grima, #25 Legolas, and #24 Gimli, mainly due to the musical choices (owing to you, yovargas, and sador of tORn), but my commentary is edited as well. So if you can transfer those to the master-list that would once again be appreciated! :)

And does your last comment mean 'Only Time Will Tell' by Asia is a great song, or 'Let It Be'? ;)

If the latter, you can bet it will appear. But who, and what moment in the Legendarium, could inspire it? Now think hard.

I've got the next batch of 5 nearly ready...


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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:48 am 
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This batch of 5 we’ll call ‘A father and son, a figurative father and son, and a complete unknown’. (And no, the last 3 words don’t mean that Dylan’s ‘Like A Rolling Stone’ appears anywhere here – though it sure would if it could apply to a high-ranking Tolkien character – especially since yesterday marked the 50th anniversary of Dylan going electric! But, I’ve now refrained from giving 2 songs for any character, and firmly believe the next 20 are almost the greatest 20 rock songs…)


#20 Finrod Felagund, 1st King of Nargothrond – noldo king
[TG:87,EoA:8,Wik:14,RF:38,JT:45,MD:43,DD:35,DK:11,JR:6,LR/SL/CH:26,UT/HM:192,HoF+:46=551pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Finrod
Finrod is worthy of his top-20 status; his role in the ‘Athrabeth Finrod Ah Andreth’ being the main reason, I deem. He’s the second character to have scores in every column of my spreadsheet; Elendil at #37 was the first, due to his 1pt acquired from Kane. Finrod also now equals Legolas’ entry on Tolkien Gateway as the highest amount of points from any one segment of my spreadsheet at 192pts from UT/HoMe. He also has his own entry in Drout’s Encyclopedia, written by none other than Michael Drout himself, overlooking his Nauglamír inaccuracies. In it, Drout states “Finrod is in some ways the best of the High-elves: he is noble, generous, kind, valiant, mindful of his oaths, and genuinely devoted to Men”. (He certainly longed for a peace between all peoples…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRhq-yO1KN8

#19 Beren Erchamion, 8th Lord of the 1st House of the Edain – 1st-house adan lord
[TG:71,EoA:9,Wik:33,RF:52,JT:58,MD:69,DD:45,DK:10,JR:10,JG:4,HC:1,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:40,UT/HM:150,HoF+:46=599pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Beren
His entry in Drout’s Encyclopedia by Paul Edmund Thomas, reads, “Tolkien referred to the story of Beren and his beloved Lúthien as ‘the kernel of the mythology’ and said it ‘arose from a small woodland glade filled with hemlocks (or other white umbellifers) near Roos on the Holderness Peninsula – to which I occasionally went when free from regimental duties while in the Humber Garrison in 1918’.” The character’s origin, as Thomas suggests, was actually earlier than that, as the ‘Tale of Tinúviel’ was written in 1917, but in it Beren was a Gnome, not a Man. Of course the lasting legacy of Beren can be considered his inscription on Tolkien’s gravestone. The ‘Wolvercote Cemetery’ entry in Drout’s Encyclopedia was written by none other than my own brother, and his concluding paragraph reads, “Unlike the Silmarillion, however, in which 'none saw Beren and Lúthien leave the world, or marked where at last their bodies lay' (S 188), Edith and Ronald are buried in plot L2-211. Small, simple way-markers point the way along the cemetery path to their grave”. (Since an original name for Melian was Wendelin, one can only assume that Beren’s pet-name for Lúthien was ‘Wendy’; and don't ignore the imagery of B dropping dead on stage, before continuing…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA4OWZ2a23Y

#18 Elrond Half-elven, Lord of Rivendell – peredhil lord
[TG:168,EoA:27,Wik:33,RF:31,JT:64,MD:49,DD:30,DK:1,JR:7,JG:1,Let:3,LR/SL/CH:37,UT/HM:72,HoF+:106=629pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Elrond
He ranks 5th, with 106pts, on the grouping of the initial-thread + favourite-character lists: another Elf, 2 Hobbits, and a Maia, only outrank him. The fact that Celebrian departed oversea first, even though Elrond’s great-great-grandmother was a Maia, was ironic in a way. But Celebrian’s great-grandmother was a niece of Ingwë. (And so, this can be considered a devotion from Elrond to his estranged wife…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7N0mY6FaRg

#17 Tom Bombadil, Master of the Old Forest – ??? master
[TG:87,EoA:213,Wik:61,RF:26,JT:40,MD:75,DD:28,DK:3,JR:3,JG:1,HC:1,Let:4,LR/SL/CH:22,UT/HM:52;HoF+:15=631pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Bombadil
Yes, his entry in the Encyclopedia of Arda is gargantuan, and worth the most points of anything yet! But it may be proof why a composite of all sources I’ve used is desirable to generate a fair ranking. Tom may be, in some circles, only peripheral to the Story; but he is definitely one who possibly generates the most debate in all of the Legendarium. He also preceded a large part of it - as he was but a doll of Tolkien’s children. (Though his mind is not for rent, to any God or Government, don’t put him down as arrogant / his reserve is a quiet defense, riding out the day’s events / The River!! / Catch the mist, catch the myth, catch the mystery, catch the drift...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auLBLk4ibAk

#16 Eärendil the Mariner, Lord of Arvernien – peredhil lord
[TG:86,EoA:13,Wik:23,RF:32,JT:55,MD:62,DD:45,DK:3,JR:6,JG:7,HC:1,Let:2,LR/SL/CH:54,UT/HM:170,HoF+:103=662pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Eärendil
One of his sons was 2 spots ago, and the other was back at #83. He is considered to be the one who inspired all of this! In 1914, Tolkien was inspired to seek out who he was from Old English Literature, specifically the poem Crist, and first wrote about this enigma in his own poem ‘The Voyage of Eärendel’ in September of that year. The rest is history; or pseudo-history, if you will. (His wife Elwing’s song was Skynyrd’s ‘Free Bird’, the imagery, though not the gender, being accurate. Likewise here…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGFlkcnZRFI


glossary:

*=as in CT's indexing in UT (ie. characters not appearing in Hobbit/LotR/AdvTB/Sil)
@=guest at Bilbo’s Farewell Party
(f)=female (n)=neutral

POINTS: TG=Tolkien Gateway,EoA=Encyclopedia of Arda,Wik=Wikipedia,RF=Robert Foster’s Complete Guide to Middle-earth,JT=J.E.A. Tyler’s Tolkien Companion,DD=David Day’s A-Z of Tolkien,HC=Humphrey Carpenter’s Biography,JG=John Garth’s Tolkien and the Great War,JR=John Rateliff’s History of The Hobbit,DK=Douglas Kane’s Arda Reconstructed,MD=Michael Drout’s Tolkien Encyclopedia,Let=Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien,LR/SL/CH=Lord of the Rings, Silmarillion, Children of Húrin,UT/HM=Unfinished Tales, History of Middle-earth,HoF+=votes from the Hall of Fire thread that initiated this project + a composite of selected favourite character lists.


Last edited by Dân o Nandor on Anduin on Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:43 pm 
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Some amusing choices there, particularly LSD for Eärendil (of course, John Lennon insisted that Lucy in the Sky with the Diamonds had nothing to do with LSD, and that it was inspired by a drawing that his young son Julian drew in nursery school, and yeah right. I really like Imagine for Finrod (one of my all-time favorite characters, and one of my all-time favorite songs), but Wish You Were Here for Elrond is virtually perfect.

Tom, of course, was one of the ones that I was missing. I won't comment on whether I think he belongs in the top 20, or on his song. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:30 am 
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Oh come on now. You had Tom speculated at #15 in a June 18 post. And I have Tom Sawyer at #21 on the most recent 'Rock'n Roll 500' poll, on an American station no less. Other lists in my binder, cataloguing 30+ years of such polls, on multiple stations, in 2 countries, have it #7, #10, #14, #46... Next time, I promise I'll do a list coordinating the top-300 Grateful Dead songs & Tolkien characters. :roll: :)

I take it also, that you didn't notice my previous post requesting the edits I've made to 4 characters being transferred to the master-list. 2 of them don't matter anymore, since my requested policy of waiting to transfer the next batch until the new batch is in, saw Legolas & Gimli transferred complete with their edits. So that leaves Grima at #62 and Salmar at #246, that need their edits transferred. Most appreciated. :)


I call this batch of 5, ‘4 Elves and a Witch – the 2 females being the Elves, not the Witch’…


#15 Lúthien Tinúviel, Princess of Doriath (f) – sinda/maia princess
[TG:77,EoA:25,Wik:22,RF:43,JT:90,MD:82,DD:75,DK:11,JR:14,JG:2,HC:1,Let:2,LR/SL/CH:40,UT/HM:102,HoF+:87=673pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/L%C3%BAthien_Tin%C3%BAviel
Not the last female that’ll appear, but close. If a story of Beren & Lúthien itself was published, then maybe she would have made the top-10. Her roots through Melian can be traced to the very beginning, as well as her lineage to Eldarion in the Fourth Age. That Tolkien constructed a World where she is only #15 is what’s ultimately impressive!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANNqr-vcx0

#14 Witch-king of Angmar, Lord of the Nazgûl – ringwraith king
[TG:225,EoA:137,Wik:66,RF:66,JT:104,MD:1,DD:48,LR/SL/CH:18,UT/HM:34,HoF+:28=727pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Witch-king_of_Angmar
Yes he gets 428 of his points from online sources, setting a new high of 225pts from Tolkien Gateway, but note he gets only 1pt from Drout’s Encyclopedia, and none from Garth, Carpenter, Kane or Rateliff. I once again claim that he was to be the 3rd Dark Lord, that of the Fourth Age if Tolkien had gone ahead with his ‘New Shadow’ story. As is stated in LotR, upon his slaying by Merry and Éowyn, the Witch-king “was swallowed up and was never heard again in that age of the world”; and in a footnote to Letter #246, regarding his passing, Tolkien states the “Witch-king had been reduced to impotence”. This is a door left wide open. Fantasy writer Harry Turtledove goes even further in his article in ‘Meditations on Middle-earth’, as he wrote a manuscript in 1967 about the Witch-king in the Fourth Age, but claims he was not the individual from the December 1966 Letter #292!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9o78-f2mIM

#13 Elwë Thingol, 1st High King of the Elves of Middle-earth – sinda king
[TG:82:,EoA:32,Wik:21,RF:59,JT:156,MD:38,DD:60,DK:12,JR:17,JG:2,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:27,UT/HM:251;HoF+:3=761pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Thingol
Just as the Witch-king sets a record at 225 from Tolkien Gateway, Thingol eclipses it at 251pts from UT/HoMe! Early in the mythology, it was he alone who was the rebellious, prideful elf, more than Fëanor, as the latter had not been developed quite yet. But Thingol deserves his place, nearly astride the 2 other Elves of a prideful nature, that make it near the top of this list. (A song, not usually ranked this high, but since it's virtually the same title as a poem by Tolkien early in the mythology, and the lyrics are appropriate, we'll go with it...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bD9t44JUD4

#12 Galadriel, Lady of Lothlórien (f) – noldo princess/ruling-lady
[TG:203,EoA:27,Wik:60,RF:52,JT:48,MD:78,DD:41,DK:7,JG:1,HC:1,Let:3,LR/SL/CH:56,UT/HM:118,HoF+:77=772pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Galadriel
Her entry in Drout's Encylopedia was written by Jason Fisher. In it he states "Understanding the evolution of Galadriel's personal history is fraught with challenges... Initially [Tolkien] depicted Galadriel as a willing participant in the Noldor's rebellion against the Valar... much like Fëanor - 'proud, strong, and self-willed' - but she disliked and distrusted him. However, she was moved by his entreaties because she 'had dreams of far lands and dominations that might be her own to order as she would without tutelage' (Peoples, 387). (This video should be forever edited in Jackson’s movie over the part when Galadriel goes nuclear. A young prideful Galadriel and her struggles in Middle-earth, searching for her proper way to come home: Timpinen the Piper is calling her to join him in Eressëa, and when you have a rock like Nenya, you’ve got to roll with it…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcL---4xQYA

#11 Fëanor, 2nd King of the Noldor and maker of the Silmarils – noldo king
[TG:110,EoA:36,Wik:33,RF:45,JT:75,MD:47,DD:35,DK:15,JR:7,JG:1,Let:1,LR/SL/CH:30,UT/HM:108,HoF+:230=773pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Fëanor
He got the most votes on the initial thread that inspired this list, as most important to the Legendarium, and may very well be. He just edges out Galadriel in points, someone who even Tolkien spoke about being almost as great an Elf in the end. Elves don’t make Tolkien’s top-10, neither will Zeppelin or Floyd. (Hey Valar, leave Eru’s Children alone!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBQsQoGodPY


glossary:

*=as in CT's indexing in UT (ie. characters not appearing in Hobbit/LotR/AdvTB/Sil)
@=guest at Bilbo’s Farewell Party
(f)=female (n)=neutral

POINTS: TG=Tolkien Gateway,EoA=Encyclopedia of Arda,Wik=Wikipedia,RF=Robert Foster’s Complete Guide to Middle-earth,JT=J.E.A. Tyler’s Tolkien Companion,DD=David Day’s A-Z of Tolkien,HC=Humphrey Carpenter’s Biography,JG=John Garth’s Tolkien and the Great War,JR=John Rateliff’s History of The Hobbit,DK=Douglas Kane’s Arda Reconstructed,MD=Michael Drout’s Tolkien Encyclopedia,Let=Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien,LR/SL/CH=Lord of the Rings, Silmarillion, Children of Húrin,UT/HM=Unfinished Tales, History of Middle-earth,HoF+=votes from the Hall of Fire thread that initiated this project + a composite of selected favourite character lists.


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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:10 pm 
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Oh come on now. You had Tom speculated at #15 in a June 18 post.


Did I? Go me! But then I seemed to have forgotten about him. Of course, his placement is a lot more appropriate than that of the WitchKing! No way he belongs that high, third Dark Lord or not! ;) It just goes to show how accurate "online sources" are. ;) ;) ;)

Quote:
And I have Tom Sawyer at #21 on the most recent 'Rock'n Roll 500' poll, on an American station no less. Other lists in my binder, cataloguing 30+ years of such polls, on multiple stations, in 2 countries, have it #7, #10, #14, #46... Next time, I promise I'll do a list coordinating the top-300 Grateful Dead songs & Tolkien characters. :roll: :)


Tom Sawyer is not a bad song, but I doubt it would make my personal top 1000, and that would be without including any Dead songs.

Quote:
I take it also, that you didn't notice my previous post requesting the edits I've made to 4 characters being transferred to the master-list. 2 of them don't matter anymore, since my requested policy of waiting to transfer the next batch until the new batch is in, saw Legolas & Gimli transferred complete with their edits. So that leaves Grima at #62 and Salmar at #246, that need their edits transferred. Most appreciated.


Thanks for the heads up! I'll make sure that I take care of it!

As for the current batch, I think all of the Elves should be higher, of course, but that is the beauty of this list; it is not based on any one person's subjective views. I can't quite follow the logic of matching White Rabbit with Lúthien, but I'll keep thinking about it (you do know, I assume, that Jerry Garcia played guitar on the studio recording on Surrealistic Pillow?) And I was convinced that Stairway to Heaven was going to be matched with the No. 1 character, since most lists of top rock songs rank it at the top, and it would have been most appropriate had that No. 1 character been Frodo (I don't actually think it will be though, I am currently thinking Mairon).

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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:24 pm 
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My money's on Gandalf. :)

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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:50 pm 
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Dân o Nandor on Anduin wrote:
VtF, I've edited 4 entries, #246 Salmar, #62 Grima, #25 Legolas, and #24 Gimli, mainly due to the musical choices (owing to you, yovargas, and sador of tORn), but my commentary is edited as well. So if you can transfer those to the master-list that would once again be appreciated! :)


Done! I like the musical choices, particularly Sultan of Swing for Salmar, although it goes without saying that Stranglehold is a much better choice for Grima (even if the artist is, to put it mildly, not my favorite person, which I suppose makes it even more appropriate for Grima). I think the changes for Legolas and Gimli had already been made, but I copied the ones from your post into the master list just in case.

Quote:
And does your last comment mean 'Only Time Will Tell' by Asia is a great song, or 'Let It Be'? ;)


No my comment about "time will tell" was a reference to one of my favorite songs, "Time Will Tell" by Robert Nesta Marley, one of my favorite artists, who is criminally missing from this list, I believe.

Quote:
If the latter, you can bet it will appear. But who, and what moment in the Legendarium, could inspire it? Now think hard.


I'm thinking Gollum for Let It Be.

Quote:
I've got the next batch of 5 nearly ready...


Which is why I missed this post, I guess.

yovargas wrote:
My money's on Gandalf. :)


Gandalf is a good bet, and I think I agree. Mairon (Sauron) plays a much bigger role in The Silmarillion than Olórin (Gandalf), but Gandalf plays a much bigger role in The Hobbit than the Necromancer (Sauron). Just for the fun of it, I'll try to guess the top ten, even though I think I'll be way off.

10. Saruman
9. Morgoth
8. Sam
7. Gollum
6. Túrin
5. Aragorn
4. Bilbo
3. Frodo
2. Sauron
1. Gandalf

But that is probably a bit of nonsense, and all way off the mark, as #8 would say.

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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:58 pm 
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Man, it's been ages since I read the Sil so maybe I'm misremembering stuff but - Túrin beats out Fëanor as most important person in the Sil?? That's crazy talk!

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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:58 pm 
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Actually, I think I probably have Túrin too low on that list. In fact, I would not be surprised if he ended up No. 1 (though I doubt it). You have to remember the methodology. The list isn't about who is the most important to the story, but more about who has been written about the most, by Tolkien, and by others writing about Tolkien. Tolkien started talking about Túrin before there even was a Túrin, beginning arguably with his Story of Kullervo (which is to be published in book form this year, edited by Verlyn Flieger), which morphed into Túrin's tragic tale, and Tolkien wrote many different versions, some of which have been published in different forms in the Silmarillion, in Unfinished Tales, in HoMe and of course in The Children of Húrin. Even my little book talks a lot about Túrin and so he would have gotten more points from that than Fëanor (although I see that Fëanor got more points from me than anyone thus far, and quite a bit more than Galadriel, which surprises me).

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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:32 pm 
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4 of your 10 are on the money!

I thank you and yovargas for your thoughtful comments! I'm under pressure to get this done this week, as I go away on the 31st, but we're so close, I think it will be done! I must say though, VtF, your wordy captions accompanying the bottom of your posts are starting to worry me... :)


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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:02 pm 
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Keep it going Dân! I wished the list would never end. By the way, are there any Neil Young related music entries in the list? He is the only rock geezer I occasionally listen too. :D


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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:20 pm 
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Dân o Nandor on Anduin wrote:
4 of your 10 are on the money!

I thank you and yovargas for your thoughtful comments! I'm under pressure to get this done this week, as I go away on the 31st, but we're so close, I think it will be done! I must say though, VtF, your wordy captions accompanying the bottom of your posts are starting to worry me... :)


4 out of 10 ain't bad! I'm curious to see which ones, and if I was right about "Let It Be". And Don't Worry, Be Happy:



I think once this is all done, I will put a copy in the "Showcase Forums" (with your permission, Dân).

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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:31 pm 
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I'd been thinking it'd be cool to try and make my own non-rock geezer ( ;) ) list of music choices for at least the top 10. I really like that idea but my casual pondering of it has made me realize that it's actually pretty darn hard and would require a fair amount of thought to do decently so much respect to Dan for his efforts!

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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:54 pm 
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Beutlin wrote:
Keep it going Dân! I wished the list would never end. By the way, are there any Neil Young related music entries in the list? He is the only rock geezer I occasionally listen too. :D


There are at least two Neil Young songs that I recall: Heart of Gold, and Southern Man. I think there also was some Crosby Stills Nash and Young songs, but I can't recall off hand which.

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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:19 pm 
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yovargas, on another site I think someone is attempting to do the very same thing (Sador on TORN), although the degree of non-geezership may vary. Maybe you two should collaborate!

Thanks Beutlin. Neil Young appears at #90, #128, #169, #258, #259. Crosby, Stills, Nash and/or Young appear at #252, & #272. Easiest to quickly consume off the master-list. Enjoy the Geezers!

VtF, I erred, in that you actually only nailed 3 of 10. Still not bad. And consider permission granted to do whatever you deem appropriate with this list. Oh, and Bob Marley not making the list might very well be criminal, as is the absence of the Bee-Gees. I love them both, but then again this is a classic-rock list, so reggae and disco invariably stand outside the realm. If anything, to their credit, I would say. But neither tends to provide enough applicable material, usually, to Tolkien's characters or World.


This batch of 5: ‘4 Hobbits and a Wizard’


#10 Saruman the White, Head of the White Council and Chief of the Istari – maia wizard/chief
[TG:290,EoA:30,Wik:60,RF:51,JT:112,MD:77,DD:36,DK:1,JG:1,HC:1,Let:2,LR/SL/CH:36,UT/HM:72,HoF+:8=777pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Saruman
He sets a new high of 290pts from any one source, that being Tolkien Gateway here, as the link above will attest. Of course it is exceeded again by the character below. (It will no doubt be frowned upon by some, but in my opinion no better choice…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jDvEbT0hb8

#9 Bilbo Baggins @ – hobbit landowner/burglar
[TG:321,EoA:33,Wik:42,RF:37,JT:48,MD:97,DD:42,DK:2,JR:18,JG:1,HC:1,Let:4,LR/SL/CH:39,UT/HM:70,HoF+:49=804pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Bilbo
We now surpass 800pts per character, and by the 4th Hobbit below, we’re nearly at 1000! Bilbo’s giving up the One Ring willingly has to be atop the list of his many achievements. Of course being urged by Gandalf, and having retirement in Rivendell to look forward to didn’t hurt either. (So because of this one monumental act, I attribute to him this song…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtTDChGpXY8

#8 Sméagol ‘Gollum’ – stoor-hobbit outlaw/thief
[TG:171,EoA:30,Wik:75,RF:72,JT:82,MD:127,DD:52,JR:6,HC:1,Let:4,LR/SL/CH:44,UT/HM:44,HoF+:100=808pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Gollum
Bilbo may have surpassed him, if The Hobbit had an index. But of course Gollum would have gotten a few more points too. (The singer's name should not be overlooked in the mix either...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHXIm6MaNLw

#7 Samwise Gamgee, 7-time Mayor of the Shire – hobbit gardener/mayor
[TG:110,EoA:16,Wik:51,RF:38,JT:114,MD:80,DD:33,JR:2,JG:1,HC:1,Let:8,LR/SL/CH:42,UT/HM:110;HoF+:214=820pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Samwise_Gamgee
Sam places 2nd for points on both the initial ‘important-character’ thread that inspired this list, as well as the composite of ‘favourite-character lists’ that I used. First place on each belongs to a different character, however. One can argue that he is the real hero of the Story. Of course this list is more objective than that. (Sam was not his mother’s only son, but then neither was Ronnie Van Zant…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHQ_aTjXObs

#6 Frodo Baggins @ – hobbit ring-bearer
[TG:262,EoA:44,Wik:35,RF:41,JT:88,MD:133,DD:35,DK:2,JR:6,JG:1,HC:1,Let:5,LR/SL/CH:64,UT/HM:104,HoF+:171=992pts]
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Frodo_Baggings
He’s the only one that I’ve specifically attributed the occupation of ‘Ring-bearer’, as it was a reluctant task that he willingly undertook, and truly was his main life’s work. Interestingly, the only source that gives Frodo more points than any other character is Drout’s Encyclopedia, with the 3-page article written by Michael N. Stanton. He scores 3rd on the initial ‘important-character’ thread, 6th on the ‘favourite-character’ lists, and is of course the highest-ranking Hobbit here. (This choice was just an extension of Bilbo's, acknowledging the hardships endured by the younger generation in both cases...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDdI7GhZSQA


If mineral-entities don’t make the top-100 on this list, and trees can’t make the top-50, and beasts don’t crack the top-30, and dwarves can’t break the top-20, and elves don’t even make the top-10; then Hobbits can’t crack the top-5 either, it seems… leaving just 2 races!

Next: Of Gods & Men!


glossary:

*=as in CT's indexing in UT (ie. characters not appearing in Hobbit/LotR/AdvTB/Sil)
@=guest at Bilbo’s Farewell Party
(f)=female (n)=neutral

POINTS: TG=Tolkien Gateway,EoA=Encyclopedia of Arda,Wik=Wikipedia,RF=Robert Foster’s Complete Guide to Middle-earth,JT=J.E.A. Tyler’s Tolkien Companion,DD=David Day’s A-Z of Tolkien,HC=Humphrey Carpenter’s Biography,JG=John Garth’s Tolkien and the Great War,JR=John Rateliff’s History of The Hobbit,DK=Douglas Kane’s Arda Reconstructed,MD=Michael Drout’s Tolkien Encyclopedia,Let=Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien,LR/SL/CH=Lord of the Rings, Silmarillion, Children of Húrin,UT/HM=Unfinished Tales, History of Middle-earth,HoF+=votes from the Hall of Fire thread that initiated this project + a composite of selected favourite character lists.


Last edited by Dân o Nandor on Anduin on Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:54 pm 
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Very interesting. I still think Let It Be would have been appropriate for Gollum (for the moment when the Hand of God pushes him into the Cracks of Doom) but I can go with Bilbo. I'm a little surprised to see that Morgoth is in the top five. Saruman is the only one that I got right on the money in that group, so there are two more, out of three choices (Aragorn, Sauron and Gandalf). So here is my new, completely wrong, top five:

5. Aragorn
4. Morgoth
3. Sauron
2. Túrin
1. Gandalf

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 Post subject: Re: The Arda 300
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:00 pm 
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Very surprised Frodo doesn't rank top 5!

Loooove the choice for Gollum! :D Maybe my favorite song-to-character match yet. :)

(A little confused by Frodo's song though. :scratch: )


Dân o Nandor on Anduin wrote:
#10 Saruman the White, Head of the White Council and Chief of the Istari
(It will no doubt be frowned upon by some, but in my opinion no better choice…)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jDvEbT0hb8


Evil minds that plot destruction,
sorcerer of death's construction.
In the fields the bodies burning,
as the war machine keeps turning.
Death and hatred to mankind,
poisoning their brainwashed minds...


Who could frown on that choice?
Also: :music: :music: :music:

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