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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:14 pm 
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uhm, what I meant was I'd edited it since you posted!

ETA: what was your "no it isn't" comment referring to, in fact? I had automatically assumed you meant it was not "THE END" but now I'm not so sure you weren't replying to my previous post... :unsure:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:40 pm 
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My "no it isn't" was actually a reaction to a misreading of your last post. I had thought that you had written "it's a real stinker!" in reaction to PtB's and my failed attempts to find something to criticize in the previous episode. I see now that what you really wrote was "it's a real stonker!" which is a word that I have never encountered before, but which a google search reveals to be very much the opposite of what I thought you were saying! To be clear, I thought you were jokingly saying that the episode was bad, and I was disagreeing with that because I thought it was very good!

Sorry about that!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:49 pm 
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Ah, I might have guessed that Brit slang would fox some of you! :rofl:

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:11 am 
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I thought you had misspelled stinker! ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:18 am 
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Oh boy. It was my understanding that "stonker" meant something else entirely. As in, something that can be "tossed," to use another bit of British slang... :devil:


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:51 am 
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We obviously move in different circles... :roll:

1. stonker

Brit: Said of something that is good, or exceptional.

Young Jimmy put in a stonker of a performance at the final of the football soccer and scored four goals.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stonker


Regardless of all that, I hope the series was rounded off to everyone's satisfaction.

I'm just happy to have finished the project finally for the sake of those who were unable to stay the journey with me. It's been a labour of love, along with the requisite sweat and tears, though no blood shed AFAIA.

:cheers:

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:40 am 
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Just read all the latest posts. They all very good.

Congrats on finishing this, Elen! While there have been others too but your contribution is also very significant in this monumental project. :cheers:

Frankly, I always thought such a task was near impossible. And I am proved wrong. :)

ETA: I knew what "stonker" meant. (that(s a shocker ;) ) Had come across it while conversing with another Brit friend.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:10 am 
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Thanks much, SV! :)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:49 pm 
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Just something I heard in a pub one night, and made the mistake of asking for clarification. :)


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:26 pm 
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:hug:

So, was the Círdan scene okay for you? I mean, I know you're not a fan of PJ's Kinkade-esque lighting and visuals for the Grey Havens, but hopefully that didn't put you off!

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:41 pm 
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Yes (I know you weren't speaking to me, but I figured I could answer anyway).

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:06 pm 
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I thought the scene was great, and certainly approve. Though I wouldn't include a "fast-forward" to the havens as they will be, as that might come across as a bit forced.

And thanks for remembering my problem with PJ's version of the Havens (well, I'm sure I have repeated myself often about that). Though it's not necessarily the lighting, as much as that very busy, condensed, and almost "elven gingerbread" design, that I dislike so much. I just can't understand how one could make a location by the ocean seem so claustrophobic!

As for Kinkaid, he's one of the few artists who actually makes me angry! :pullhair:

ETA: And congratulations! This is a feat of creativity (and will), which is all the more impressive as there is no promise of any financial or critical reward. I think I speak for all when I say: :cheers:

And: :drink:


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:23 pm 
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PtB wrote:
And thanks for remembering my problem with PJ's version of the Havens (well, I'm sure I have repeated myself often about that). Though it's not necessarily the lighting, as much as that very busy, condensed, and almost "elven gingerbread" design, that I dislike so much. I just can't understand how one could make a location by the ocean seem so claustrophobic!


I have to agree that such an enclosed looking harbour seems rather unnatural...

Actually, if I'd spent more time looking last night I could have found a better illustration - and now I have! It's based on a real place in Switzerland! Far less busy (you get a better feel for the length of the Gulf of Lune before the open sea) and much more evocative of the greyness of the landscape and light...

http://careldewinter.deviantart.com/art/The-Grey-Havens-330058491

I shall post it in the thread forthwith!

As for the "fast-forward" I couldn't think of anything else that would really work as a closing shot, and I had thought it might work as a tie-in to how LotR ended, even though it's a bit lame... any better suggestions?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:41 pm 
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I think closing with a shot of the bay as it is (with gulls circling and crying), with perhaps just the subtle sounds of a future harbor, might be effective. There's a bitter-sweetness to that, IMO (the sound of gulls alone convey that emotion, really).

Sometimes the simpler the better, especially when you're dealing with the beauty of a seascape at certain times of the day.

ETA: And yes, the open bay in that picture is much, much better (though the design of the ship and structure in the distance is not so great, IMO)!

Interestingly, though I prefer Alan Lee over John Howe, I believe the Havens in the film was primarily the work of Lee. See here: http://alan-and-john.tumblr.com/image/20017459161

In this case, I much prefer John Howe's cleaner and more open version: http://fc02.deviantart.net/images/i/200 ... Havens.jpg


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:19 pm 
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Yes, looks like Lee's - and since he also designed Rivendell for the movies it would follow.

Sorry, but Howe's version doesn't do anything for me - a bit "underdeveloped" for an established settlement! Plus I never imagined the cleft between the mountains to be so narrow. at least not from the maps!

The ship in the deWinter is pretty oddly photo-shopped, I agree, but I really like the landscape in that picture.

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I think closing with a shot of the bay as it is (with gulls circling and crying), with perhaps just the subtle sounds of a future harbor, might be effective. There's a bitter-sweetness to that, IMO (the sound of gulls alone convey that emotion, really).


I think, yes, a shot of the bay as it is would be good, since we already had Círdan's vision in his mind's eye, so pointless me repeating that in a flash forward...and maybe instead of the dawn we have the sun breaking through the clouds like in the picture...

Thanks :)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:36 pm 
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The habit of overdeveloping coastlines is quite a modern one, so I think Howe's less busy version makes more sense (though I don't find it to be particularly amazing). The dwellings are better situated further away from the coast, IMO - which is more sensible, given the erratic nature of the sea.

Unfortunately, modern societies are just starting to learn how dumb it was (and is) to build at sea level, especially as it rises... :)

ETA: And I agree with your final concept!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:52 pm 
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Very true... and my point about many artists portraying the landscape as too mountainous around the entrance to the Gulf of Lune compared to the maps can be best illustrated by Ted Nasmith's more geographically correct view of the view from the Tower Hills in his painting

The End of the Age

Between the Sound and the two arms of the Ered Luin, were wide areas of lowland which were called Harlindon and Forlindon

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:44 am 
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Oh, I had never seen Nasmith's before! Nice. Though I don't think he's the best Tolkien artist around, I now prefer his version of the Havens over all other depictions.

A closing shot for the episode that looks something like Nasmith's version would be great.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:22 am 
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not something I would recommend
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I haven't really been following this discussion except this last bit but I just wanted to add that I also really like that Nasmith version. Lee and Howe's versions don't feel right at all to me but I think that one nails the vibe just right.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:31 am 
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Unlike, PtB, I'm a big fan of Nasmith's Middle-earth art (I was even before he contacted me to tell me how much he liked Arda Reconstructed).

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