Bad Language?

[vison]

Frelga, I suppose you know that I am expecting to see a very handsome young woman in a crested helmet when we meet?

Crest red.

[Frelga]

Frelga, I suppose you know that I am expecting to see a very handsome young woman in a crested helmet when we meet?

Crest red.

Well, you'll see a woman, anyway.

[baby tuckoo]

It may be "fun" that nouns have gender, but the gender assignation never is "logical" nor does it ever aid communication.

But determiners, absent in Russian, do give aid. Knowing "which one" is often of value.

[Frelga]

If you want logical, study Hebrew. As for determiners - this pencil red and that black. Give me that pencil. If I say "give me pencil," it doesn't take a baby genius to deduce that I don't care which one.

English is tuff stough. Any language where foot and loot don't rhyme and "read" can be read two entirely different ways, can't make too great a claim on logic. Wasn't it Bernard Shaw who said that fish should be spelled ghoti: you pronounce "gh" as in "cough", "o" as in "women", "ti" as in "nation"?

But it's a rich, wonderful, flexible language nonetheless.

[vison]

Poor ol' GBS. He toiled away on spelling reform all his life and got about nowhere.

But the reforms -- or rather, changes -- happen anyway.

I cling to my outmoded spellings of colour and honour and cheque, but it's clinging to a sinking ship, I know.

I once heard an old lady say, "Gaelic is pronounced just the way she's spelled."

O, sure.

Now, THAT's a confusing language!

[Túrin Turambar]

I cling to my outmoded spellings of colour and honour and cheque, but it's clinging to a sinking ship, I know.

I think our superflous 'u's and things will still be around for a fair bit longer. We seem to have lost the sulphur vs sulfur battle though, but I still use the 'ph' spelling.

[Primula Baggins]

That one was fair enough to lose, I think: scientific spellings really should be consistent. I still do change a lot of "sulph-" spellings to "sulf-" in the books I edit.

I'll be interested to see whether you lose the "aluminium" war, as you actually pronounce that one differently.

[truehobbit]

I don't think the "ou" spelling is outmoded, it's correct British English, as opposed to American English.
However, if, of course, British English speakers start using American forms more and more (as I hear they do), that would indeed mean the slow demise of this spelling.

Changing "aluminium" to "aluminum" would really be weird, as that form is clearly the result of people who didn't understand the word getting it wrong.

It doesn't make sense, really, to say this language is pronounced the way it's written, because obviously the sound of the individual letters differs greatly between languages. So you can only say a language is pronounced as written according to the rules of how the individual letters or combinations of letters sound. If that is consistent, then, yes, it's pronounced as written.

I wonder whether this is the case for Gaelic - I once asked a Gaelic speaker, but she didn't know what I was talking about.

English, of course, is definitely not pronounced as written in any way!

You all know this poem, I'm sure, but it's too good not to be repeated...

Dearest creature in creation
Studying English pronunciation,
I will teach you in my verse
Sounds like corpse, corps, horse and worse
I will keep you, Susy, busy,
Make your head with heat grow dizzy.

Tear in eye your dress you'll tear,
So shall I! Oh, hear my prayer,
Pray, console your loving poet,
Make my coat look new, dear, sew it!

Just compare heart, beard and heard,
Dies and diet, lord and word,
Sword and sward, retain and Britain.
(Mind the latter, how it's written).
Made has not the sound of bade,
Say said, pay-paid, laid, but plaid.
Now I surely will not plague you
With such words as vague and ague,
But be careful how you speak,
Say break, steak, but bleak and streak.
Previous, precious, fuchsia, via,
Pipe, snipe, recipe and choir,
Cloven, oven, how and low,
Script, receipt, shoe, poem, toe.

Hear me say, devoid of trickery:
Daughter, laughter and Terpsichore,
Typhoid, measles, topsails, aisles.
Exiles, similes, reviles.
Wholly, holly, signal, signing.
Thames, examining, combining
Scholar, vicar, and cigar,
Solar, mica, war, and far.
From "desire": desirable--admirable from "admire."
Lumber, plumber, bier, but brier.
Chatham, brougham, renown, but known.
Knowledge, done, but gone and tone,
One, anemone. Balmoral.
Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel,
Gertrude, German, wind, and mind.
Scene, Melpomene, mankind,
Tortoise, turquoise, chamois-leather,
Reading, reading, heathen, heather.
This phonetic labyrinth
Gives moss, gross, brook, brooch, ninth, plinth.

Billet does not end like ballet;
Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet;
Blood and flood are not like food,
Nor is mould like should and would.
Banquet is not nearly parquet,
Which is said to rhyme with "darky."
Viscious, Viscount, load, and broad.
Toward, to forward, reward.
And your pronunciation's O.K.,
When you say correctly: croquet.
Rounded, wounded, grieve, and sieve,
Friend and fiend, alive, and live,
Liberty, library, heave, and heaven,
Rachel, ache, moustache, eleven,
We say hallowed, but allowed,
People, leopard, towed, but vowed.
Mark the difference, moreover,
Between mover, plover, Dover,
Leeches, breeches, wise, precise,
Chalice, but police, and lice.
Camel, constable, unstable,
Principle, disciple, label,
Petal, penal, and canal,
Wait, surmise, plait, promise, pal.
Suit, suite, ruin, circuit, conduit,
Rhyme with "shirk it" and "beyond it."
But it is not hard to tell,
Why it's pall, mall, but Pall Mall.
Muscle, muscular, gaol, iron,
Timber, climber, bullion, lion,
Worm and storm, chaise, chaos, chair,
Senator, spectator, mayor,
Ivy, privy, famous, clamour
And enamour rhyme with hammer.
Pussy, hussy, and possess,
Desert, but dessert, address.
Golf, wolf, countenance, lieutenants.
Hoist, in lieu of flags, left pennants.
River, rival, tomb, bomb, comb,
Doll and roll and some and home.
Stranger does not rhyme with anger.
Neither does devour with clangour.
Soul, but foul and gaunt but aunt.
Font, front, won't, want, grand, and grant.
Shoes, goes, does. Now first say: finger.
And then: singer, ginger, linger,
Real, zeal, mauve, gauze, and gauge,
Marriage, foliage, mirage, age.

Query does not rhyme with very,
Nor does fury sound like bury.
Dost, lost, post; and doth, cloth, loth;
Job, Job; blossom, bosom, oath.
Though the difference seems little,
We say actual, but victual.
Seat, sweat; chaste, caste.; Leigh, eight, height;
Put, nut; granite, and unite.
Reefer does not rhyme with deafer,
Feoffer does, and zephyr, heifer.
Dull, bull, Geoffrey, George, ate, late,
Hint, pint, Senate, but sedate.
Scenic, Arabic, Pacific,
Science, conscience, scientific,
Tour, but our and succour, four,
Gas, alas, and Arkansas.
Sea, idea, guinea, area,
Psalm, Maria, but malaria,
Youth, south, southern, cleanse and clean,
Doctrine, turpentine, marine.

Compare alien with Italian,
Dandelion with battalion.
Sally with ally, yea, ye,
Eye, I, ay, aye, whey, key, quay.
Say aver, but ever, fever.
Neither, leisure, skein, receiver.
Never guess--it is not safe:
We say calves, valves, half, but Ralph.
Heron, granary, canary,
Crevice and device, and eyrie,
Face but preface, but efface,
Phlegm, phlegmatic, ass, glass, bass.
Large, but target, gin, give, verging,
Ought, out, joust, and scour, but scourging,
Ear but earn, and wear and bear
Do not rhyme with here, but ere.
Seven is right, but so is even,
Hyphen, roughen, nephew, Stephen,
Monkey, donkey, clerk, and jerk,
Asp, grasp, wasp, and cork and work.

Pronunciation--think of psyche--!
Is a paling, stout and spikey,
Won't it make you lose your wits,
Writing "groats" and saying "grits"?
It's a dark abyss or tunnel,
Strewn with stones, like rowlock, gunwale,
Islington and Isle of Wight,
Housewife, verdict, and indict!
Don't you think so, reader, rather,
Saying lather, bather, father?
Finally: which rhymes with "enough"
Though, through, plough, cough, hough, or tough?
Hiccough has the sound of "cup."
My advice is--give it up!

[vison]

Yup. What a truly excellent poem.

Canadians say Aluminum, like Platinum.

There are those who say that Aluminum should be Aluminium, as in Uranium or Radium. Or even Germanium. (Not to be confused with Pelargoniums. )

I say, "Pooh!" to that.

[truehobbit]

Hehe, yes, isn't it? It's British pronunciation though - does "lieutenant" rhyme with "left pennant" in Canadian English, too?

LOL, true, there are elements ending in -um and elements ending in -ium.
But the guy who found it (or isolated it, or whatever) called it "Aluminium" and that's its name in most other languages, too.
(Now, it would be interesting to know if the derivation, which is from "alumen" is linguistically more correct as "aluminium" or as "aluminum" - there have been some linguistic mix-ups in scientific terminology ever since scientists stopped concentrating on their Latin and Greek, I've heard.)

[baby tuckoo]

Alumen was identified in 1827. It is the most abundant metal, so it's good we've figured out a lot of stuff to do with it.

[vison]

Interestingly enough, "lieutenant" is pronounced lootenant in the British and Canadian navies, but not in the other services.

Odd, eh?

[Primula Baggins]

Webster's 11th Collegiate dates both "aluminium" and "aluminum" to 1812 and says both are derived from the Latin "alumina."

"Aluminium" is the officially preferred spelling, according to the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry, which sets standards for chemical nomenclature. Thay also prefer "sulfur."

However, in the U.S. and apparently Canada, "aluminum" is the standard; it's spelled that way in the American Chemical Society style guide and is the accepted style of every scientific publisher I've worked for.

In its earliest uses metallic aluminum was so rare and expensive that in one European army, where high-ranking military officers wore helmets of silver, the very highest-ranking wore aluminum.

</geekout>

[Holbytla]

LYNK !

[vison]

One of the Napoleons, likely Napoleon III, had a very expensive cutlery set made from Aluminum. It was comparable, in it's day, to one made of platinum.

[vison]

So, Reading is pronounced Redding?

C?

Ya larn sommat new every livelong day.

[truehobbit]

Yes, the town near London is pronounced Redding. I knew that one.
Pronunciation of place names in English is real fun!

I didn't know about the navy pronouncing "lieutenant" differently from the other services - cool!

Alumen was identified in 1827. It is the most abundant metal, so it's good we've figured out a lot of stuff to do with it.

Hmmh, not "identified", I think, according to wikipedia, at least. I looked up its history on a German wikipedia website, and couldn't be bothered to figure out what you'd correctly say in English, so maybe I still got it wrong.
The reason it was so valuable was that it could not be extracted in a pure form. Apparently it was first described in 1808, and first synthetically produced in usable form in 1827. The process developed for this was improved in 1859, which caused the price of aluminium to drop by 90%.
I'm sure some people were rather peeved at that.

I went to the English wikipedia now, and they had something on the origin of the name:

Word expert Michael Quinlon, who says he "writes about International English from a British viewpoint," notes that in 1807 Humphry Davy proposed the name alumium for the metal Davy was trying to isolate electrolytically from the mineral alumina. In 1812, Davy finally settled on aluminum, [10] which, as other sources note, matches its Latin root. The same year, an anonymous contributor to the Quarterly Review, a British political-literary journal, objected to aluminum and proposed the name aluminium...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium#Spelling

The word is derived from "alumen" - alaun, so "alumina" is the nominative plural. "Aluminum" I guess matches the root in that it would be the genitive plural of the word. I don't know what the closer meaning of "aluminium" would be, if there is one - it seems it's just because the -ium endings are more frequent for elements (but I'm thinking there must be a reason for that, too, unless scientists were all dunces at language).

What I really wanted to show, however, was how other languages stick closely to "aluminium" as its given name - interestingly (typically? ), this info is not contained on the English site, so you'll have to look here: http://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Aluminium

LOL, Holby, see, if English wasn't so irregular, how would people have such fun with these poems?
(We had "pullet surprise" in our Linguistics book at Uni as an example for forms of misunderstanding. )

[vison]

Here is a very good grammar lesson!!!!


Warning: slightly naughty joke.

Harry is getting along in years and finds that he is unable to perform
sexually. He finally goes to his doctor who tries a few things, but
nothing seems to work. So the doctor refers him to an American Indian
medicine man.

The medicine man says, "I can cure this." That said, he throws a white
powder in a flame, and there is a flash with billowing blue smoke.

Then he says, "This is powerful medicine. You can only use it once a
year. All you have to do is say '123,' and it shall rise for as long as
you wish!"

The guy then asks, "What happens when it's over, and I don't want to
continue?"

The medicine man replies: "All you or your partner has to say is 1234,
and it will go down. But be warned - it will not work again for another
year."

Harry rushes home, eager to try out his new powers and prowess.

That night he is ready to surprise Joyce. He showers, shaves, and puts
on his most exotic shaving lotion. He gets into bed, and lying next to
her says, "123." He suddenly becomes more aroused than anytime in his
life-just as the medicine man had promised.

Joyce, who had been facing away, turns over and asks, "What did you say
123 for?"



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And now you know why you shouldn't end a sentence with a preposition.

[yovargas]

[truehobbit]