Trump's America

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Lalaith
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Lalaith »

That was my thought, too, Frelga. I don't think he's doing this to be clever at all. Perhaps, though, he is being manipulated and influenced by others who see the benefits of the "distract with crap and then act in secret" tactic. Something I read about John Kelley and the changes he's implementing made me think that's a possibility, but I can't remember the article to link to it here. Sorry.
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Cenedril_Gildinaur
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Cenedril_Gildinaur »

You guys have to stop believing your own propaganda.

You don't get to where Trump is if you are a complete idiot, and I'm not talking about President. I'm talking about how Trump has spent years marketing the Trump brand. You have to have some skills, not necessarily theoretical academic skills, to get where he is. He's got cunning.

If you want to paint him as a complete idiot, which seems to be the intent here, then that actually makes it worse that Hillary lost to someone that stupid. It would make more sense if she lost to someone who, although less educated, is more cunning.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
-- Samuel Adams
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Impenitent
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Re: Trump's America

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Cunning and ruthless and without conscience.

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yovargas
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Re: Trump's America

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Cenedril_Gildinaur wrote:If you want to paint him as a complete idiot, which seems to be the intent here, then that actually makes it worse that Hillary lost to someone that stupid.
Yes, it does make it worse. I wish I saw some evidence otherwise but I don't. I just see a guy who, due to wealth and fame, was able ride the massive wave of ignorance and fear that Fox & friends created straight into the White House. At no point have I seen anything that looks like strategy or cunning, just a man riding the current.
I wanna love somebody but I don't know how
I wanna throw my body in the river and drown
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Cenedril_Gildinaur
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Re: Trump's America

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Impenitent wrote:Cunning and ruthless and without conscience.

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Exactly, which is far more intelligent than the complete idiot people want to paint him here.
yovargas wrote:
Cenedril_Gildinaur wrote:If you want to paint him as a complete idiot, which seems to be the intent here, then that actually makes it worse that Hillary lost to someone that stupid.
Yes, it does make it worse. I wish I saw some evidence otherwise but I don't. I just see a guy who, due to wealth and fame, was able ride the massive wave of ignorance and fear that Fox & friends created straight into the White House. At no point have I seen anything that looks like strategy or cunning, just a man riding the current.
No, the complete idiot starting out with lots of money, that's Paris Hilton. I do not think Trump expected to win. He (and also Hillary) underestimated the immense wave of dissatisfaction that he rode to power. But he had to have the cunning necessary to tap into that wave of dissatisfaction.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
-- Samuel Adams
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Lalaith
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Re: Trump's America

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I've gone back and forth on thinking that Trump might have some cunning, as you put it, and that he is doing all of this Twitter crap intentionally. I suppose it could be true. He certainly has some manipulative skills and some exploitative skills. However, every interview I've read or interview I've seen only reinforces the idea that he is not especially intelligent and may, in fact, be easily manipulated himself. What I see is a very insecure man who lies to make himself look and feel better. He seems to be a narcissist who thrives on attention, and his own words portray him as crass, crude, ignorant, and vile. That certainly appeals to an, unfortunately, large group of people here in America. So he may have had the "cunning necessary to tap into that wave of dissatisfaction," but he does not appear to have any clue with what else to do now that he is in power. He sees it solely as a source to fuel his weak ego, with no savvy to accomplish anything—probably because he has no real clue on what he wants to accomplish. He just wanted to win. Now he's won and is lost.
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Re: Trump's America

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Well, if there was still any doubt that we live in the age of actual Saturday morning cartoon villainy - Texas butterfly sanctuary destroyed to make room for the border wall.

National Butterfly Center Founder: Trump’s Border Wall Prep ‘Trampling on Private Property Rights’
Marianna Treviño-Wright, director of the National Butterfly Center, said she was startled to find the work crew cutting down trees with a chainsaw and clearing swaths of vegetation with a brush mower along a road that follows a flood-control levee bisecting their property. Wright says the center has spent the last 15 years painstakingly restoring the 100 acres of former onion field into a habitat with flowers and trees for more than 200 species of butterflies.

“The supervisor of the work crew couldn’t produce any paperwork authorizing him to be there on our private property,” Wright told the Observer. “He told me not to talk to his crew and that U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) would be in touch, and then they left.”
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.

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yovargas
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Re: Trump's America

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Since I know how conservatives generally feel about the government intruding on private property rights, I'm sure they will be very upset to hear this kind of story.
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Primula Baggins
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Primula Baggins »

I think many of the ones who still support Trump will find a reason that this is just fine.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Frelga
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Re: Trump's America

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Like, actual Saturday night cartoon villains.

Fight over right to sue nursing homes heats up
Consumer groups are making a last ditch effort to stop the Trump administration from stripping nursing home residents and their families of the right to take facilities to court over alleged abuse, neglect or sexual assault.

The Centers for Medicare & Medicare Services (CMS) announced plans in June to do away with an Obama-era rule that prohibited nursing homes that accept Medicare or Medicaid funds from including language in their resident contracts requiring that disputes be settled by a third party rather than a court.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.

Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
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River
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Re: Trump's America

Post by River »

Primula Baggins wrote:I think many of the ones who still support Trump will find a reason that this is just fine.
It's fake news. Who cares about pollinators anyway? Or something.
When you can do nothing what can you do?
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Inanna
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Re: Trump's America

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What is more important? Protecting ourselves or some butterflies.
(and I can get this perspective too)
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Frelga
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Re: Trump's America

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Why not both?
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.

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Inanna
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Inanna »

In this case, how do you do both? If A believes that a wall is important to be built to protect them, then legally the only place the wall can be built is at your legal border. But party B has already built a reserve on both sides of that border.
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Frelga
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Re: Trump's America

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Well, you start by contacting that party and discussing the possible solutions. You also do environmental studies, as for any other construction project, instead of waiving them as the DHS has done. Or some sort of cost/benefit study, for that matter, that shows that the wall will actually benefit anyone other than the contractors.

How are they paying for the bulldozers, anyway? I thought Congress has not signed off on the funds?
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.

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River
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Re: Trump's America

Post by River »

DHS has a pool of discretionary money to spend on random things that pop up. Per Trump's order, the Secretary of DHS ordered that ALL that money be spent on the wall. So they're going about this in the classic scummy developer fashion: start ripping stuff up before all the legal and financial hurdles are cleared and hope like hell the project doesn't stall. It could, of course. And if it does, the next move is to seek other funding options and litigate the legalities into submission...except Congress controls the budget and if they don't want a wall to happen there are no other options.
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Cenedril_Gildinaur
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Cenedril_Gildinaur »

Someone Just Noticed That Trump Is Getting Stuff Done

TL;DR version - everyone is so busy looking on the tweets and the tinfoil Russia conspiracy theory that they missed what he is actually doing.

As I said, not as dumb as Paris Hilton.
Achievements: After weeks and months of fixating on tweets and Russia, someone in the press decided to have a look at what the Trump administration has been up to since January. Lo and behold, they discovered that it's getting a lot done.

"Trump Has Quietly Accomplished More Than It Appears" reads the headline in the Atlantic.

"With the Trump administration's chaos sucking up all the attention," the article begins, "it's been able to move forward on a range of its priorities.... It is remaking the justice system, rewriting environmental rules, overhauling public-lands administration, and greenlighting major infrastructure projects. It is appointing figures who will guarantee the triumph of its ideological vision for decades to come."

It goes on to detail these achievements, many of which we've highlighted on these pages.

Border crossings, for example, have plummeted, even though all Trump has done so far is promise to enforce existing laws.

The Supreme Court approved parts of Trump's travel ban, a success made possible by Trump's appointment of Neil Gorsuch to the bench.

Trump is busy filling lower court positions with conservative justices. Ron Klain, a White House aide to Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, said that Trump "is proving wildly successful in one respect: naming youthful conservative nominees to the federal bench in record-setting numbers."

What else? Well, Trump pulled out of the Paris climate change deal, which as we noted in this space is a yuuuge win for the economy.

The EPA, meanwhile, is dismantling Obama's coal-killing, growth-choking Clean Power Plan, and draining the heavy-handed Waters of the United States rule. When a veteran EPA official resigned this week, she complained in a letter to her former colleagues that "the new EPA Administrator already has repeals of 30 rules under consideration," which the New York Times described as "a regulatory rollback larger in scope than any other over so short a time in the agency's 47-year history."

Trump promised to kill two regulations for every new one enacted, but in his first six months the ratio was 16-to-1.

Trump also approved the Keystone XL and other pipeline projects held up by Obama. He's also rolled back a ban on coal mining on public lands.

To be sure, Trump hasn't scored a major legislative achievement on signature issues like ObamaCare and tax reform.

The Atlantic writer describes the administration's achievements as something akin to a shadow government. But these actions aren't in the shadows. They're just being ignored by a media that is obsessed with digging up dirt on Trump.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
-- Samuel Adams
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Frelga
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Re: Trump's America

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We know he is doing stuff. That's the problem.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.

Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
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Frelga
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Frelga »

See exhibit A today.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.

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Re: Trump's America

Post by Cerin »

Frelga wrote:
So that happened. The President of the US attacked the Congress controlled by his own party on Twitter on behalf of Russia.

"Our relationship with Russia is at an all-time & very dangerous low. You can thank Congress, the same people that can't even give us HCare!"
What Trump said is absolutely true. It isn't 'attacking Congress on behalf of Russia' to point out the danger of the current frenzy of Russia-goading that's going on, not only by Congress but by the Democrats, the intelligence services, the war hawks and the media.
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