Trump's America

The place for measured discourse about politics and current events, including developments in science and medicine.
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yovargas
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Re: Trump's America

Post by yovargas »

Cenedril_Gildinaur wrote: Don't create privileged groups. Carving exemptions for privileged groups is the path of tyranny.
It is not the groups that are being "privileged", it is their actions. It is legal enforcement saying that different actions can merit different responses. Or in this case a lack of actions, as those we are calling Dreamers were not the ones who chose to immigrate. I see no issue with this. In fact I would have a strong objection to the idea that an individuals actions should not be taken into consideration when deciding how to enforce the law.
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Túrin Turambar
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Túrin Turambar »

I am deeply-suspicious of the idea that the Executive Government (though law enforcement) can make decisions whether to enforce the law or not. In extreme cases, this is how you can deny people the protection of the law. For example, lynchings in the deep south went unpunished not because killing a black person wasn’t a crime, but because no-one would be prosecuted for committing it.

On the other hand, there’s always been pragmatic considerations around law enforcement. In most jurisdictions I’m aware of, prosecutors are required to make a judgement call that a case is worth prosecuting before they take it to court, e.g., there’s a real chance of success, it’s a good use of public resources, and the prosecution is in the public interest. Based on that, it’s fair to say it wouldn’t be sensible for police to arrest and press charges against someone if these criteria aren’t met.

So I suppose I’d need to consider these things on a case-by-case basis.
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Cenedril_Gildinaur »

Túrin Turambar wrote:I am deeply-suspicious of the idea that the Executive Government (though law enforcement) can make decisions whether to enforce the law or not. In extreme cases, this is how you can deny people the protection of the law. For example, lynchings in the deep south went unpunished not because killing a black person wasn’t a crime, but because no-one would be prosecuted for committing it.
Like I said, I'm in the minority on this position, it isn't a widely held position. But I did offer the caveat that if the executive decides to not enforce a law, that policy should be applied consistently and evenly without exception so that you don't get lynchings going unpunished.

But apparently I'm not completely in the minority, since people who support the law in general do seem to approve of lack of enforcement with regards to the Dreamers. Their position isn't mine, since I believe that an exception applies to everyone or no one.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen."
-- Samuel Adams
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Frelga
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Re: Trump's America

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Kelly asks WH staff to say he took 'immediate and direct action' on Porter: report
White House chief of staff John Kelly has instructed senior staff to say that he took "immediate and direct action" after learning that the allegations of domestic abuse against staff secretary Rob Porter were credible, according to The Washington Post.

Kelly reportedly told the senior staff to relay what he said on Friday to subordinate staff and that he cares about combatting domestic violence.Multiple reports Thursday stated that Kelly first learned of the accusations against Porter last year, but took no action.

SNIP

The Washington Post reported on Thursday that White House counsel Don McGahn had first informed Kelly of the abuse allegations against Porter last fall.

The allegations prevented Porter from receiving a full security clearance. Multiple people in the White House were aware of the allegations before they were reported by media, according to reports.
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River
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Re: Trump's America

Post by River »

Another staffer with a history of perpetrating domestic abuse resigned yesterday. Apparently there are dozens of people in there who have been there for a year and had their clearances hung up on something or other. I know getting a high-level clearance is tough - a buddy of mine had a job offer at Lincoln Labs rescinded because the lawyers there decided that the fact his father still lived in South Korea made it too hard to get the clearance through. His father was a very pro-US political science professor...but that may have been the problem. The concern was he'd get kidnapped and thus my buddy becomes compromised. That was pretty much the only way he could become compromised but it was enough. And there's a bunch of people with rap sheets, compromising photos, and huge debts in the White House...

Then again, my buddy's misadventure happened during the Obama Administration. Maybe under Trump Lincoln Labs has gotten as relaxed as the White House.
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Frelga
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Frelga »

Seriously, is it absolutely necessary to be such dicks about EVERYTHING? Can this administration and the GOP Congress show some compassion every now and then?

I helped pass disabilities reform — I know the cost if it's gutted
Last year, the Judiciary Committee of the U.S. House of Representatives voted to advance HR 620, disingenuously named the “ADA Education and Reform Act.” This legislation would undermine the ADA and so much of the progress we have made, decreasing access for people with disabilities by removing the substantive requirements businesses and services have to meet — no longer guaranteeing access, but instead mandating a business only make “substantial progress” towards access.  
HR 620 prevents people with disabilities from seeking immediate legal recourse to protect their rights. Instead, the bill would require people with disabilities to go through a bureaucratic process to inform businesses exactly what portion of the ADA has been violated and what changes need to be made to meet its obligations. It then requires people with disabilities to wait up to 6 months or more before they could go to court to protect their rights.

This law would mean people with disabilities have to become legal experts just to participate in society, and it removes any incentive for businesses to proactively comply with the ADA. This is not how civil rights laws are supposed to work.
You might remember that I spent several weeks in a wheelchair a couple years ago, before progressing to crutches, then a cane, then just limping. I still have trouble going down the stairs - I can, but it'll hurt later.

As woke as this part of the country is supposed to be, going anywhere in a wheelchair was a game of chance. Even my orthopedic surgeon had a ramp so steep that I couldn't roll myself up it without my husband pushing me, and doorways too narrow for the chair to fit.

On streets lined with restaurants that were technically in compliance, I learned that my choices were limited. Sure, the doors were accessible, but there was no way to maneuver between the tables without making everyone get up and move. My own office building, new and technically compliant, has a bathroom door so heavy that it was almost impossible to open from the chair, and even on crutches it was a struggle. I stopped drinking water at work so I wouldn't have to deal with it.

I could go on. Disabled parking spaces, for instance, weren't really that useful to me unless there was also a buffer room to maneuver the chair or the crutches.

Most people who rely on wheelchairs don't have a choice of just waiting a few months to go to the place they like, or the helpful family members who can easily run most errands for or with them (teenagers can really be useful). For most people in wheelchairs, this is the matter of participating in the society at all. The state provides education and tax credits for businesses to get in compliance. There's absolutely no need to make life more difficult for those who already have the hardest struggle.

Seriously, wtf?
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Primula Baggins
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Primula Baggins »

It's as if they have a list of cruelties and are working their way down it. It makes me sick.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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River
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Re: Trump's America

Post by River »

Haven't you heard? If you aren't able-bodied you're a burden and should just stay home.

On a more serious note, I think they like it when people like us are upset. Makes 'em feel powerful or something.
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Frelga
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Frelga »

I remember when Bob Dole came to Senate in a wheelchair to advocate for the ADA, and they still didn't pass the bill.

I am beginning to suspect that they have decided that because so many jobs can be automated or outsourced, it's OK to just let poor people die.

Eta from ACLU
The House of Representatives voted today by a 225-192 margin to undermine the Americans with Disabilities Act. #HR620
Last edited by Frelga on Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.

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Primula Baggins
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Trump's America

Post by Primula Baggins »

My most fervent wish right now is that this is their fatal mistake.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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River
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Re: Trump's America

Post by River »

On one hand, I doubt it. the fact this even happened demonstrates how much our elected officials care.

On the other, the able-bodied don't necessarily remain that way. Sometimes, the illness or injury can be recovered from completely and sometimes it can't. Which means most if not all Americans have had experience with disability in some shape or form. But, then again, most if not all Americans have contact with the health care system and the politicians are hell-bent on jacking that up too.
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Inanna
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Inanna »

But why? why change it?
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

I created the new thread on the Russia Investigations, splitting off posts from the past month (perhaps we may try to go back and add older posts at some time).
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Frelga
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Re: Trump's America

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You rock! I would be happy just having a thread for future use, so this is way above and beyond.
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.

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Re: Trump's America

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

You even get to be the thread-starter. ;)
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Primula Baggins
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Primula Baggins »

In case anyone was wondering, Voronwë does indeed rock.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
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Frelga
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Re: Trump's America

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Voronwë the Faithful wrote:You even get to be the thread-starter. ;)
I'd like to thank the Academy and my parents. :D
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.

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Voronwë the Faithful
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Voronwë the Faithful »

And God. Don't forget God.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
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Frelga
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Frelga »

I remember God every time there's a bit of news from Washington. As in, oh God, I can't believe this is real.

This is real, BTW, the official AP photo.
President Donald Trump holds notes during a White House listening session with students and parents affected by school shootings. (AP Photo by Carolyn Kaster) https://t.co/Z0lZbSVaoF
If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life.

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Inanna
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Re: Trump's America

Post by Inanna »

Well, obviously, getting him to not bring up CSPAN Ratings ever since he joined at this session is a real concern for the staffers.
'You just said "your getting shorter": you've obviously been drinking too much ent-draught and not enough Prim's.' - Jude
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