The 2016 US Election
The 2016 US Election
So, Jeb Bush versus Hilary Clinton? Any takers?
The Vinyamars on Stage! This time at Bag End
- Voronwë the Faithful
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- The Watcher
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No. Please. Just stop. This is like my worst nightmare come to life. Can we at least get through Inauguration Day before talking about this??
Oh frak it. I doubt Hillary will make a Presidential run. I think she'd rather take some time recovering from being Secretary of State.
Watcher:
Oh frak it. I doubt Hillary will make a Presidential run. I think she'd rather take some time recovering from being Secretary of State.
Watcher:
When you can do nothing what can you do?
- Túrin Turambar
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Policies are changeable, to a large degree collective and depend on events. Personality, in so far as an aptitude for leadership, an ability to communicate and sound judgement are personality traits, is critical.Alatar wrote:Surely in a President you should be voting for their policies (which are ideological and party based) rather than their personalities?
- axordil
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Many people here convince themselves they're not affiliated with a party, or interested in ideology. For them it's all about personality, certainly at the Presidential level. I know more than one person who voted for George W. Bush the first time because he came off as "a regular guy."
Absurd as the notion of the son of a CIA director and US President, a Yale grad and multimillionaire who owned a pro baseball team and former Governor of Texas being a "regular guy" may be, it worked for him. Me, I think "regular guys" have no business in the White House, but the US has always had an anti-intellectual strain to its collective character.
Bill Clinton beat W's dad with personality as much as position. Mondale lost to the more charismatic Reagan less because of policies than because people *liked* Reagan.
It's part of the price tag for a non-parliamentary democracy.
Absurd as the notion of the son of a CIA director and US President, a Yale grad and multimillionaire who owned a pro baseball team and former Governor of Texas being a "regular guy" may be, it worked for him. Me, I think "regular guys" have no business in the White House, but the US has always had an anti-intellectual strain to its collective character.
Bill Clinton beat W's dad with personality as much as position. Mondale lost to the more charismatic Reagan less because of policies than because people *liked* Reagan.
It's part of the price tag for a non-parliamentary democracy.
I did say individuals, not personality. I can see how people vote based on perceived ideologies, but not every republican or democrat is created with a cloning device.
Is it really sound to vote for someone who has an "r" or a "d" next to their name, or to vote strictly on party lines, even if that person appears incompetent or less fit for the job?
Is it really sound to vote for someone who has an "r" or a "d" next to their name, or to vote strictly on party lines, even if that person appears incompetent or less fit for the job?
- Voronwë the Faithful
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I would definitely support Hillary Clinton, should she decide she is healthy enough to run at the age of 69. My opinion of her has improved dramatically over the past 4 years.
"Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world."
- Primula Baggins
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I vote for competence and on issues regardless of party, but I generally find that leaves me voting for local or at most state-level Republicans. Beyond that point they have to be very much the products of their party's platform to get the chance to run, and at this point there are some Republican platform elements I oppose so strongly that I am unable to vote for anyone who supports them (even if I'm no fan of the Democrat I end up voting for).
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
- Primula Baggins
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I would have agreed strongly before the election. But the outrage and blame-seeking among Republicans who weren't expecting the outcome has been so strong that I wonder if the lingering shadow will stick to Ryan as well.
“There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach.”
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Return of the King
- Túrin Turambar
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And Parliamentary democracy as well.axordil wrote:Many people here convince themselves they're not affiliated with a party, or interested in ideology. For them it's all about personality, certainly at the Presidential level. I know more than one person who voted for George W. Bush the first time because he came off as "a regular guy."
Absurd as the notion of the son of a CIA director and US President, a Yale grad and multimillionaire who owned a pro baseball team and former Governor of Texas being a "regular guy" may be, it worked for him. Me, I think "regular guys" have no business in the White House, but the US has always had an anti-intellectual strain to its collective character.
Bill Clinton beat W's dad with personality as much as position. Mondale lost to the more charismatic Reagan less because of policies than because people *liked* Reagan.
It's part of the price tag for a non-parliamentary democracy.
Obviously 'regular guy' is an impression rather than a biographical fact. FDR drew enourmous support from people who felt, based on his personality or his policies, that he empathised with them in spite of his very privileged background.