On enlightenment and backwardness.

[yovargas]

'Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice'. I think we need to be extreme in our criticism of people who are acting dangerously, but we need not be extreme when criticizing harmless people.

This is a potentially valid point, I suppose, but also an extremely problematic one, because pretty much every "extremist" of whichever stripe thinks they're "defending liberty" (such as the anti-choice crowd who are in their minds defending the liberty of babies) and the result is a lot of angry, narrow-minded, counter-productive shouting from all sides.

[Túrin Turambar]

The rapture movement was not harmless to those who put all their money into it, though. I don't know if criticism would have made any difference, but I certainly don't think that we should just shrug and let Camping and the other leaders off lightly without recognising their moral culpability for those losses.

[Lalaith]

I agree, Lord M. And now he's changed the supposed date to October (21st, I think).

ETA: I came across this article.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/201 ... nsequences

Failed Doomsday Has Real Deadly Consequences


Benjamin Radford, LiveScience Contributor,
LiveScience.com – Mon May 23, 11:31 pm ET

Harold Camping, the 89-year-old leader whose study of the Bible convinced him and his followers that the world would end, has been described by his wife as "flabbergasted" that the apocalypse didn’t start over the weekend. There are some red faces out there. And if that's all it had been, then one could argue no great harm had been done.

But while Camping and his followers try to figure out what went wrong (or right) — with news Monday night that he now says Judgment Day will come on Oct. 21 — the failed prophecy did more than just damage Camping's credibility: It also appears to have caused death and serious injury to true believers.

A California woman named Lyn Benedetto was one of millions who heard Camping's message, and became concerned that her daughters would suffer terribly in the coming apocalypse. She allegedly forced her daughters, 11 and 14, to lie on a bed and then cut their throats with a box cutter. She then tried to kill herself, though police arrested Benedetto and all three survived.

Others were not so lucky. An elderly man in Taiwan reportedly killed himself on May 5 ahead of the Rapture by jumping out of a building. He had heard that doomsday was imminent, and had taken recent earthquakes and tsunamis as early warning signs.

There were other unconfirmed reports of doomsday-related suicides around the world as well.

This is of course not the first time that failed doomsday predictions have led to tragedy. The most famous pre-apocalypse suicides in recent times occurred in 1997 when the Heaven’s Gate Christian UFO group came to believe that the comet Hale-Bopp was a sign that Jesus was returning, and the world would end soon. Prompted in part by scripture, rumors, and late-night radio talk shows, the group's fanaticism led to nearly 40 deaths.

Camping's failure holds an important cautionary lesson, because doomsday predictions are not going away. Many people, especially those in the New Age community, believe that 2012 will bring global cataclysm. It's easy to dismiss and ridicule failed prophets as modern-day harmless Chicken Littles misleading the gullible, but apocalyptic visions can have deadly consequences —even when they are wrong.

Benjamin Radford is deputy editor of Skeptical Inquirerscience magazine and author of "Scientific Paranormal Investigation: How to Solve Unexplained Mysteries." His Web site is RadfordBooks.com.

[Dave_LF]

Hum; guess my birthday present will be the world not ending. Wish I could get that every year.

[Primula Baggins]

At what point will this guy's followers reach for the pitchforks and torches?

[vison]

I confess I have little sympathy - actually none at all - for any of the people who swallowed that bunk. I think they're fools. If that makes me "extreme", so be it.

[Cerin]

The rapture movement was not harmless to those who put all their money into it, though. I don't know if criticism would have made any difference, but I certainly don't think that we should just shrug and let Camping and the other leaders off lightly without recognising their moral culpability for those losses.

Are you saying this man is profiting, that people are giving him their money? What does he want with money if the world is ending?

At this point it seems to me the best thing would be for everyone to ignore him. Giving him this kind of attention must only encourage him.

At what point will this guy's followers reach for the pitchforks and torches?

If he's encouraging violence against others, then that's another matter. That makes him dangerous.

I think they're fools. If that makes me "extreme", so be it.

I don't think that makes you extreme. You aren't wasting your time mocking and scorning because it's fun to make fun of fools, you aren't adding your energy to the sideshow (are you?). I honestly don't understand why this merits the kind of attention it has gotten.

[Primula Baggins]

Cerin, I don't think he's encouraged violence against others. I think it's possible that some who were pulled in by the May 21 deception (error? scam?) will be pretty angry at him, especially if they took irrevocable steps such as disposing of their property because they thought the end actually was coming.

Yes, they were foolish, but sometimes realizing that only makes people more angry.

[Cerin]

I see. Thanks for explaining, Prim!

[axordil]

The same sorts of questions could be and probably should be applied to groups like Westboro Baptist, which exist solely because of media exposure. They're the Snookies and Kim Kardashians of the religious world, except more evil, and the cycle of coverage-outrage-coverage needs to be broken somehow.

Except people like feeling smarter and better than others, and the only way for media to cater to that is to find people who are stupider and/or viler than everyone.

[vison]

But why would you get rid of your property? I just do not understand that part. If you're Raptured, what difference does it make?

[Dave_LF]

It shows how much faith you have. If you don't have enough faith, you might not get raptured.

[Primula Baggins]

Jesus did say "Sell everything you have, give the money to the poor, and follow me." Maybe some people figured it wasn't too late.

[Holbytla]

[quote="Cerin"] Something like the rapture prediction is relatively harmless .. [quote]

I would think that would be the case in many circumstances where certain believers aver their beliefs without any thoughts of recompense or ulterior motives.
Yet historically, you don't have to search too far or wide to unearth zealous sects that have been in the forefront of these proclamations, all the while relieving persons of property or life.

Those sects, as in my opinion is the case with Harold Camping, deserve and should be berated with all the contempt and ridicule that can be mustered.

My path may not be righteous or the best means to an end, but if someone's belittling saves one life, it is worth it imo.